Separate section for installation/activation/etc. issues

Explorer ,
May 24, 2009

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I'd suggest to add a separate section (subforum) for each (or most of) the software products, dealing exclusively with issues pertaining to installation/deinstallation/activation/deactivation/installing 64bit version on.../using product with ... graphics card/etc.etc...

For example, since the launch of Photoshop CS4, the main Photoshop forum section has been cluttered with installation/activation issues to a point, where other issues go unnoticed and people lose interest in the forum. During the last days, I've read at least 2 comments in the Photoshop section, that they have decided to stop using the forum for exactly this reason.

I'd have to look, but I can surely retrieve these comments, if need be ...

kind regards.

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Separate section for installation/activation/etc. issues

Explorer ,
May 24, 2009

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I'd suggest to add a separate section (subforum) for each (or most of) the software products, dealing exclusively with issues pertaining to installation/deinstallation/activation/deactivation/installing 64bit version on.../using product with ... graphics card/etc.etc...

For example, since the launch of Photoshop CS4, the main Photoshop forum section has been cluttered with installation/activation issues to a point, where other issues go unnoticed and people lose interest in the forum. During the last days, I've read at least 2 comments in the Photoshop section, that they have decided to stop using the forum for exactly this reason.

I'd have to look, but I can surely retrieve these comments, if need be ...

kind regards.

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May 24, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 24, 2009

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I think you are giving Joe and Jane sixpack too much credit for recognizing the root of their problem.

Many times they simply state something like - My program does not work, how come?

To add seperate forums as you suggest would just confuse everyone as to where to look for problems and to those answering them.

And the time to jump from forum to forum.

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May 24, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 24, 2009

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May 24, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 24, 2009

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I can follow your reasoning but it's not a good idea.

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May 24, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 24, 2009

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Because (a part that it's from me) ... ?

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May 24, 2009 0
Advocate ,
May 24, 2009

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Maybe a 'sticky' about installation/update issues, pointing to a FAQ section????

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May 24, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 24, 2009

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Good idea. Would certainly help.

But installation (etc.) problems that can't be solved via FAQ and are subsequently posted here should go into a separate section.

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May 24, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 24, 2009

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Christian Davideck wrote:

Because  ... ?

Because it's hard enough now for a newcomer to know where to post. And most of them wouldn't get it right!


I think Kath's idea is more like it. A pointer to the KB articles on installation and update issues, activation, licencing service, etc.

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May 24, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 24, 2009

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If you have different forums for installation, graphic cards, etc., and Joe and Jane Sixpac knew where to put it, who would change it when it turned out to be in wrong fourm, or the question evolved to cover more than one topic?

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May 24, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 24, 2009

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curt y wrote:

If you have different forums for installation, graphic cards, etc.,

No, the ideas was to have ONLY ONE additional subforum, where all these installation/activation/deinstallation issues would go into ... (not multiple ones)

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May 24, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 24, 2009

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John Joslin wrote:

.... for a newcomer to know where to post.

If a newcomer entitles his thread "installation problems with Photoshop CS4", he will find the Forum "Photoshop // installation issues". If you say the contrary, then you are really taking people for idiots here.

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May 24, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 24, 2009

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Christian Davideck wrote:

...  you are really taking people for idiots here.

Not idiots  —   lost souls, confronted with a gargantuan colossus of obscurity.   

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May 24, 2009 0
Guide ,
May 24, 2009

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Bad idea.

Clueless users would now have two sections to post in the wrong place.

Even if it worked, what would be accomplised?  Nothing.

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May 24, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 24, 2009

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Ramón G Castañeda wrote:

Even if it worked, what would be accomplised?  Nothing.

Uncluttering.

see:

Christian Davideck wrote:

since the launch of Photoshop CS4, the main Photoshop forum section has been cluttered with installation/activation issues to a point, where other issues go unnoticed and people lose interest in the forum. During the last days, I've read at least 2 comments in the Photoshop section, that they have decided to stop using the forum for exactly this reason.

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May 24, 2009 0
Guide ,
May 24, 2009

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Wrong.  You would end up not with one but two cluttered sections.

Bad idea.

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May 24, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 24, 2009

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Ramón G Castañeda wrote:

Wrong.  You would end up not with one but two cluttered sections.

Wrong, all of the forums I've seen offer a more specific categorization. It works everywhere. People are not as stupid as you depict them.

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May 24, 2009 0
Guide ,
May 24, 2009

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Christian Davideck wrote:

…People are not as stupid as you depict them.

No, not all people are stupid.  But some of them are in fact more clueless than anyone can imagine.  You'd have questions in the wrong place in both sections.

Having everything in one place makes it even easier to help people out.  Segregated installation sections get little attention and, thus, less answers.

Perhaps strictly from the point of view of casual visitors that only post questions without helping others it might seem more attractive—because they don't know any better.

Users with installation and/or activation questions are usually the most clueless of all and more likely to post in the wrong section, even in the wrong forum.

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May 24, 2009 1
Explorer ,
May 25, 2009

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Ramón G Castañeda wrote:

Having everything in one place makes it even easier to help people out.  Segregated installation sections get little attention and, thus, less answers.

Perhaps strictly from the point of view of casual visitors that only post questions without helping others it might seem more attractive—because they don't know any better.

OK, these are some valid examples for genuine disadvantages. I grant you that.

Personally, I don't think that this offsets the advantages, at least you come up with logical arguments instead of just saying "bad bad" like our other beloved folks here

Anyway,

nobody has dealt with this so far:

to a point, where other issues go unnoticed and people lose interest in the forum. During the last days, I've read at least 2 comments in the Photoshop section, that they have decided to stop using the forum for exactly this reason.

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May 25, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 25, 2009

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to a point, where other issues go unnoticed and people lose interest in the forum. During the last days, I've read at least 2 comments in the Photoshop section, that they have decided to stop using the forum for exactly this reason.

the reason may have more to do with the POS forum software that makes it so difficult to get around as compared to the way it used to be. many many regulars who would answer questions and discuss are just giving up. and if a post makes it to the second or third page, because of bugs in the forum navigation, it has like a nil chance of getting answered.

adobe is killing it's own forums and you think it'll get better if they spread things out more to make it even MORE difficult to navigate?

it's not the newbie questioners who have a problem with this place christian, it's the answerers. adobe has made it actually painful to answer questions here in any volume. before the switch over i answered 10 to 15 questions a day in PS win. since, i'm lucky if i post there 10 to 15 times a week.

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May 25, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 25, 2009

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dave milbut wrote:

to a point, where other issues go unnoticed and people lose interest in the forum. During the last days, I've read at least 2 comments in the Photoshop section, that they have decided to stop using the forum for exactly this reason.

adobe is killing it's own forums and you think it'll get better if they spread things out more to make it even MORE difficult to navigate?

it's not the newbie questioners who have a problem with this place christian, it's the answerers. adobe has made it actually painful to answer questions here in any volume. before the switch over i answered 10 to 15 questions a day in PS win. since, i'm lucky if i post there 10 to 15 times a week.

Dave, yes, these are all valid points.

I just think the new forum system and the issue of an additional subforum (similar to the "feature requests" subforum) are two different pairs of shoes. As far as the latter is concerned, I gave my point of view, you guys gave yours, I think I'll leave it at that.

dave milbut wrote:

...  POS forum software that makes it so difficult to get around as compared to the way it used to be. many many regulars who would answer questions and discuss are just giving up. and if a post makes it to the second or third page, because of bugs in the forum navigation, it has like a nil chance of getting answered.

Yes, I second that. It's nevertheless true, that  "if a post makes it to the second or third page", "it has like nil chance of getting answered" in the old forum system, too, isn't it ?

And what do you mean with "bugs in the forum navigation" ?

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May 25, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 25, 2009

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As a side-note: The email notifications say

"To post a reply to the thread message, either reply to this email (recommended) or visit the message page:"

But replying doesn't work, the e-mail is rejected by adobe servers
Is it working for you guys ?

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May 25, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 25, 2009

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It's nevertheless true, that  "if a post makes it to the second or third page", "it has like nil chance of getting answered" in the old forum system, too, isn't it ?

nope. speaking only for myself, i made it a point to check all threads in the ps win, and bump those i couldn't help with...

And what do you mean with "bugs in the forum navigation" ?

this kinda continues what i was just saying above... in the old forums you could quickly skim through threads and help where you could. this forum makes that impossible because it takes 10-15 seconds for each thread to load. AND you don't go back to where you last read in the thread, you're taken to either the 1st or last post in the thread AND there's the fact that if you're not on the 1st page, you're reading a thread say on page 3, you click back and instead of being back on the 3rd page, the forum jumps you back to the 1st page. THAT'S specifically why it's so difficult to keep up with threads once they scroll off.

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May 25, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 25, 2009

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OK, I see Dave. thanks

And I think the old forum was also accessible via NNTP, which is no longer the case, right?

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May 25, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 25, 2009

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Christian Davideck wrote:

OK, I see Dave. thanks

And I think the old forum was also accessible via NNTP, which is no longer the case, right?

correct. another whole section of long time helpers and contributors just abandoned. it's a shame, really.

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May 25, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 25, 2009

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Jive can't talk to NNTP? It's really sad, that people leave ...

Dave, do you think you could explain something to me ...?

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May 25, 2009 0
Advisor ,
May 25, 2009

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And I think the old forum was also accessible via NNTP, which is no longer the case, right?

At least the search system is better than the old Web interfaces (sans dejanews.com)

As for your idea for a separate Installation forum (please allow my $0.02), there are already close to 530 forums to choose from. And notice that (as of this date and for at least the past couple of months), there is a big section on installation support right on the main support page, http://www.adobe.com/support/

Users who fling past the already available and easily searchable support pages, knowledge base pages, devnet pages, etc. are the same ones posting such questions in the product forums. No amount of new forum sections or FAQ pages will curb that type of user. Of course, some of them have done their due diligence and are still experiencing problems. I don't think many regulars would keep visiting an Installation Issue forum to look for such questions, though.

[OT]

Of course, the best cure is for Adobe to overhaul their installer/licensing system. Such posts could fade away by CS7 or so if CS5 is better

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May 25, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 25, 2009

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Dave, do you think you could explain something to me ...?

i could try... i can't say i'll do better or worse than any of the other way more knowledgeable people here but shoot...

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May 25, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 25, 2009

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Of course, the best cure is for Adobe to overhaul their installer/licensing system. Such posts could fade away by CS7 or so if CS5 is bette

or they could do the right thing and remove DRM all together.

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May 25, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 25, 2009

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Mark A. Boyd wrote:

Of course, the best cure is for Adobe to overhaul their installer/licensing system. Such posts could fade away by CS7 or so if CS5 is better

LOL

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May 25, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 25, 2009

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dave milbut wrote:

Dave, do you think you could explain something to me ...?

i could try... i can't say i'll do better or worse than any of the other way more knowledgeable people here but shoot...

Thanks, that's very kind of you Dave. Sorry for asking so directly, but I'm feeling a bit helpless as I had already postet a part of that issue a year ago in the old forum and couldn't get it solved. I have been thinking about ever since, but couldn't find any answers by myself and the PS manual is mute on that point. Now with the new forums, I wanted to try my luck again, trying to explain things better this time. The question is here: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/437254?tstart=0 It's so basic (about layer groups' blending modes), that I really do think there are many folks here who know the answer. But I get the impression, that for some reason I don't know, the regulars here don't like me and so won't tell me ... But I honestly don't know what I've done wrong .....

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May 25, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 26, 2009

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John, I already said that ....

Christian Davideck wrote:

I gave my point of view, you guys gave yours, I think I'll leave it at that.

But if you continue to debate the point, I might end up responding.

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May 26, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 25, 2009

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bad bad idea.

edit: which probably means the new section will be up tomorrow morning.

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May 25, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 25, 2009

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i'm seeing 3 threads about these kind of issues on PS Win in the first 30 threads out of which one is about PS bought on ebay, one about problems installing the rar files (guess what that means) and one legitimate problem with deactivation, not what i'd call "cluttered"

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May 25, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 25, 2009

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All the yellow thread titles in post #3 were from the forum's first page. You see how many these are.

But anyway, I made a suggestion that's all. I won't argue about that anymore.

Any ideas, why the email replies are not working ?

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May 25, 2009 0
Engaged ,
May 25, 2009

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Christian Davideck wrote:

Any ideas, why the email replies are not working ?

Start a new thread... and hand ot points

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May 25, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 25, 2009

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Bear in mind that the Photoshop Windows forum currently gets a lot of newbies asking about different software simply because it has "Photoshop" in its name -- Photoshop Essentials, Photoshop Album Starter Edition, and some even more introductory version from the early '90s.  With even more subforums for them to ignore, things will become less organized rather than more so.

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May 25, 2009 0
Explorer ,
May 25, 2009

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Michael D Sullivan wrote:

With even more subforums for them to ignore, things will become less organized rather than more so.

A) Either more subforums lead to a more organized forum ==> then an additional subforum for installation/activation issues would be required.

B) Or less subforums lead to a more organized forum (what you suggest) ==> then following your logic, there shouldn't be even separate forums for separate products.

You're trying to have it both ways

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May 25, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 25, 2009

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Christian for Christ's sake give up!


You are out-voted and ploughing a lonely furrow.

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May 25, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 26, 2009

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Christian Davideck wrote:

Michael D Sullivan wrote:

With even more subforums for them to ignore, things will become less organized rather than more so.

A) Either more subforums lead to a more organized forum ==> then an additional subforum for installation/activation issues would be required.

B) Or less subforums lead to a more organized forum (what you suggest) ==> then following your logic, there shouldn't be even separate forums for separate products.

You're trying to have it both ways

again, i don't think it's "organization" that's the problem. it's "page navigation".

you know come to think of it i havent' even been in the feature request section since the fall of the forums. with all the sub forums out there on the right, they're easy to forget about..

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May 26, 2009 0
LEGEND ,
May 26, 2009

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dave milbut wrote:


you know come to think of it i havent' even been in the feature request section since the fall of the forums. with all the sub forums out there on the right, they're easy to forget about..

You missed the Corel freak?

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May 26, 2009 0
Explorer ,
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You are right, Dave, page navigation could certainly be improved, too.

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May 26, 2009 0
Enthusiast ,
May 26, 2009

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John Joslin wrote:


You missed the Corel freak?

yes. i vaugly heard about him. i'll have to go look.

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May 26, 2009 0