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Invisible Work Area Bar is a "bug" and not a "feature"

Community Beginner ,
Sep 28, 2022 Sep 28, 2022

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Thanks Bogden-Giurca for posting this and never mind those "community experts" acting like hall monitors checking for your bathroom pass. If you wouldn't have posted this here in the user to user forum, I would have never known that it was a "bug" and not a "feature" and that it has been reported to Adobe and that they are diligently working day and night to solve this annoyance! Keep posting - its helping! I'll now go back to my 4 hour Adobe render now.

 

Mod note: Branched and moved to Video Lounge.

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Explorer ,
Sep 12, 2022 Sep 12, 2022

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This is driving me crazy. I've seen a few comments about this and Adobe doing nothing about it. 

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Community Expert ,
Sep 12, 2022 Sep 12, 2022

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Have any of those comments been on UserVoice? Few people bother to file bug reports, which is largely how the dev teams hear about issues. Clearly you're not the only person having this issue, but lots of people complain and few people do anything about it. A quick search on UserVoice only shows one report about this issue, and it's Bogdan's; it already has seven votes in a week. This is the best way to let the Premiere team know there's a widespread issue. 

 

It's also easy to say "they should know, don't they test their software?" Of course they do, but with the infinite amount of hardware and software configurations, it's impossible to catch every bug. The fragility of Dynamic Link, even after all these years, is proof that it's impossible to make a perfect feature that complex. Obviously, a Work Area bar's color is far less complicated than Dynamic Link, but if the teams can easily reproduce your issue, then they can much more easily fix it. I've reported bugs that have been fixed within a week in the new public beta.

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Explorer ,
Sep 12, 2022 Sep 12, 2022

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It's been reported on UserVoice, thank you for your valuable input. 

 

But hey, "Adobe Community Professional", why don't you spend more time attacking people here to vent. That's surely very very productive. I've been using Premiere for 20+ years. At the cost of thousands of dollars. I've earned the right to vent my frustrations about updates that completely — my workspace and workflow. And I will. As will others. 

 

Mod note: Kindy avoid profanity in posting on Adobe forums (even if implied). We have minors here.

 

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Community Expert ,
Sep 12, 2022 Sep 12, 2022

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David's had his own rants, and isn't saying not to do so. I've had my own EPIC rants here over the years. There's a time and a place and a function for them.

 

But rant's don't actually do anything other than let off steam.

 

And David, as me, is at nearly all times an absolutely practical guy. What we might want instead of what we're getting is fine ... but ... how do we get attention most directly, and ... how do we keep working now with things as is, are always things we'll feature in replies.

 

Personally, I tend to "assume" people have clients wanting their projects finished, so I'm always trying to puzzle out how to get the work out now. However that needs be done.

 

Neil

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Community Expert ,
Sep 12, 2022 Sep 12, 2022

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Suggesting you file a bug report isn't an attack. Venting is good and well, but too many people don't know about UserVoice, come here because they think they're filing a bug report, then get more irritated when nothing gets done to fix the issue. I'd rather see people get solutions to their issues so fixes can actually be released rather than complain into an endless void.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 12, 2022 Sep 12, 2022

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Yup ... a practical guy, what did I say!

 

David and I have had some fascinating discussions at NAB and MAX with the dev teams. We do not always see eye to eye with the devs, to be polite ... but the devs are good people. Not nearly as many as you would think or hope, and serving quite literally several million users, every one of whom has different kit and does things differently.

 

All under the over-seeing of the M&E people well up above the app teams. Which adds its own ... difficulties ... to the process.

 

Neil

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Adobe Employee ,
Sep 12, 2022 Sep 12, 2022

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Hi David,

quote

Suggesting you file a bug report isn't an attack. Venting is good and well, but too many people don't know about UserVoice, come here because they think they're filing a bug report, then get more irritated when nothing gets done to fix the issue. I'd rather see people get solutions to their issues so fixes can actually be released rather than complain into an endless void.


By @davidarbor

 

Sorry about that, David. Hopefully, we'll have a smoother workflow for those looking to file bugs and feature requests shortly. I agree that filing bugs and feature requests on a website outside of Adobe is not very intuitive.

 

Thanks,
Kevin

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Adobe Employee ,
Sep 12, 2022 Sep 12, 2022

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Hello CleanSlateDigitalMedia,

I am sorry for this bug. It is quite a new issue, and I made sure the team knew about it. I hope the team can fix this issue as soon as possible. I will have to ask for your patience until that time.

 

As a workaround, you may want to use In and Out marks for the things you usually would use in the Work Area Bar. It works much in the same way, from my experience. I do understand the disruption to your workflow, though, and for that, I apologize. 

 

Let me know if you need any assistance with this issue or for a workaround.

 

Thanks,
Kevin

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New Here ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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Still no solution?

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Explorer ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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Nope. And there was an update the other day. I know because all of a sudden my shortcuts were all dead. 

Seriously considering dropping Adobe after 25 years. It's the little things they ignore that are driving me nuts. Example: Latest iterations of photoshop crash constantly. I've lost hours over the past few weeks.

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Community Expert ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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The update from the other day was a major upgrade, 23.0, which would have a new set of preferences. If you didn't check the option in the Creative Cloud Desktop app to migrate your preferences forward, then your keyboard shortcuts wouldn't show up. If you did and your workspaces showed up but not your shortcuts, let me know and I can direct you to how to find your previous keyboard shortcuts files from 22.x. 

 

As for this issue being fixed, I would look toward the public betas which are already on 23.1. 23.0 was locked a long time ago at this point and the issue might not have been detected until after the public beta moved onto a later version.

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Explorer ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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It's sad to see that you or anyone consider anything that's added to Premiere in 10 years a "major" upgrade. The application can't even migrate settings & extension/scripts properly, and you can achieve keyboard shortcuts by literally just copying the settings in the documents. 

Also I really like how it creates a new folder with new version in the program files folder like "Adobe ... 2022" but fails to copy the tools or scripts from older version. This is not rocket science.

Everything that's simple and should be one click, you need a workaround in Adobe Apps.

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Community Expert ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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Regardless of how you feel about features. 22.x to 23.x is a major version change. The project format changes, meaning its no longer directly backwards compatible. I'm not going to argue with the hyperbole that nothing major has been added in the last 10 years. Aside from that being untrue, why bother using the software if you feel that way? I upgraded from 22 to 23, made sure to check the box, and my prefs and kb shortcuts were migrated. If the box was checked and it didn't work, then yup, that's a bug and should be reported as such; but if the box wasn't checked then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

What I would like to see implemented in Premeire is what After Effects did some time back. If you didn't migrate your prefs or if you did and it still didn't work, the prefs dialog has a button to do so without you having to manually move files.

 

Edit: I've asked about migrating tools before and the answer is partially around licensing. I've also noticed a chance in how third-parties are installing plug-ins. A lot more of them are now installing directly to the Mediacore folder instead of the application folder, which means they will show up in future versions without migrating. The most notable tools that I can think of that made this change are the Red Giant ones.

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Explorer ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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Hi David, sorry if I sound aggressive which I probably am, but I'm brutally honest when it comes to these, and happy to talk more about them.

- "Regardless of how you feel about features. 22.x to 23.x is a major version change."

Yes, If we would follow the semantic versioning, yes this is a "major" upgrade by the book. But there is no actual change that should have changed or break any kind of backwards support of a older project file. I honestly was a curious for second by your statement and checked the "upgrades" really quickly. Let's go over them.

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/whats-new.html


- Inner and outer strokes for graphics
Cool but, why would someone use this instead of After Effects?
Not even "Editing" related.
No professional user would use this.

- Flexible alignment controls
Should/Could have existed 10 years ago, all apps have this.
I made a script for this couple years ago.

- Bulk edit titles on the timeline
This is very basic UX feature that should have been existed.
Already exists in all "Professional" applications, not even video editors, "all" applications.

- 2x Faster Motion Graphics templates
Good stuff, but like.. Why would this break a definition of a project file? Seems a "minor" upgrade.

- Improved performance for AVC Intra
Another good stuff but again, definitely minor. Not to mention Mac only.

- AAF support for Apple silicon
Another cool feature but again, barely minor. Also mac only.

- GPU acceleration for Lumetri scopes
Another good stuff but again, definitely minor again. And also detailed text about this is literally just a sentence, sorry but I have doubts.

- ARRI ALEXA 35 camera support
An actual update for Pro users.


Alright since we went over them, exactly in which update in these, should break a project format on a technical level? If I use one of these feature in a project and tried to open them in older version sure, that's would be problematic, but other side, it should just open. None of these features changes or breaks anything. I don't consider this a "major" upgrade, you can if you want, but to me I would consider this barely a "22.x.1 Patch"

Here is something I would consider an actual "Major" update : https://www.blender.org/download/releases/3-3/ and you know the cool thing is? It doesn't even break project files, and has absolutely 0 issues with migrating. Not to mention it is free.


- "If the box was checked and it didn't work, then yup, that's a bug"

Yes David it would work if you have checked it. But sometimes it just doesn't. Don't you think it would be just extremely easy to have your settings in a simple .json file that you can share and backup very easily? Why do Adobe and you insist on this extremely overengineered solution to a extremely simple problem that could have been fixed with literally just one config file?

- "What I would like to see implemented in Premeire is what After Effects did some time"

This is also very bad suggestion because the problem I mentioned with naming "Adobe ... 2022" to "Adobe ... 2023" problem was actually After Effects specific, wasn't even Premiere. I would beg them to not do this.

- "Mediacore folder instead of the application folder"

Yes this is a folder which will basicly install your "plugins" in every version. But I was strictly talking about the "scripts". You can't have them in that folder, they exist in AE folder. Which sometimes doesn't get copied. That is why your previous suggestion is not a good idea either.

Good solution to all of that is literally just a simple config file.

TLDR: I can go on like this forever, I'm so frustared and not gonna lie talking about it helps, because I've been in silence for years, I've literally learnt programming so that I could write features that Adobe refuses to add.

I don't know if they'll do anything about these, but I'll not stop calling out the mistakes and flaws about it, that should have been fixed or updated years ago. Only thing I ask is that people & you would question the decisions made on this and applications like I do.

 

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Explorer ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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Also I forgot this but I feel like it is important. In one of the updates title is this:

"Improved Previews on Windows and macOS"

This is clickbait. This is not professional, whoever did write this I have absolutely 0 respect. They literally just changed the default preview format to ProRes. That's it. Not even a "patch" let alone "minor" update.

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Explorer ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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I wish I could be able to edit my comments.. but anyway;

I believe no one should settle with "workarounds" on things should be basic & straight forward. If you do, I sadly have to disagree with you because just because there is a workaround, it shouldn't make it less priotized, lets say than "ability to have inner & outer strokes". 

In my opinion problem isn't just overengineering but also decision making and priotizing as well.

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Community Expert ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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Please feel free to state your thoughts here, it's great to have the discussions. As I've noted above, both David and I have also posted epic rants here. And we both encourage others to do so as needed. Though we both do like to quickly get to fixing what can be fixed for other users at whatever time 'we' are in.

 

But do recognize that as strong as you feel about something, others may feel equally strong but different, for equally valid reasons. An adult normally is expected to accept that others will think differently.

 

And since you have voiced rather strong and detailed opinions, I'll be happy to respond. And don't worry about hurting my feelilngs, this is a forum discussing working software. I don't understand emotional responses here.

 

About the app? Yea ... like when you wanna throw something at your expensive monitor ... ha. But the people here? Just ... why? That I don't get. We're all working differently with different ideas on how things should work. The differences are the most fascinating part to me.

 

Inner and outer strokes for graphics
Cool but, why would someone use this instead of After Effects?
Not even "Editing" related.
No professional user would use this.

 

So if you don't use it, it's not "professional"?

 

Are you aware of Asian TV and web work, which often uses 3-5 strokes? Because reading your rather broad statement, not one person working in Asian TV is a professional.

 

- Flexible alignment controls
Should/Could have existed 10 years ago, all apps have this.
I made a script for this couple years ago.

 

No question I would have liked them also. But ... they were 'new' to Pr in this version. Are you saying they shouldn't have mentioned it?

 

- Bulk edit titles on the timeline
This is very basic UX feature that should have been existed.
Already exists in all "Professional" applications, not even video editors, "all" applications.

 

I work in Resolve, and there's things that can't be bulk applied even there. Again, it's new to this application, adds a lot of functionality. But you think it shouldn't have been mentioned because it shoulda already been there. Right.

 

- 2x Faster Motion Graphics templates
Good stuff, but like.. Why would this break a definition of a project file? Seems a "minor" upgrade.

 

Not even a logical statement. Faster mogrts work might be due to changes in project file coding structure. Or might have nothing to do with the underlying project file changes. "We" don't know because we're not writing the code, are we?

 

- Improved performance for AVC Intra
Another good stuff but again, definitely minor. Not to mention Mac only.

- AAF support for Apple silicon
Another cool feature but again, barely minor. Also mac only.

- GPU acceleration for Lumetri scopes
Another good stuff but again, definitely minor again. And also detailed text about this is literally just a sentence, sorry but I have doubts.

 

So a common theme in your posts is that anything that you need is "major", but if it isn't affecting you directly, it's not worth mentioning.

 

Maybe you're not aware, but there are several million daily users of PrPro. With incredibly diverse needs and uses. Each of us is a tiny, tiny part of the whole user base.

 

- ARRI ALEXA 35 camera support
An actual update for Pro users.

 

Well gee, I don't work with Arri Alexa 35 except for testing purposes, so clearly, I ain't professional.

 

Something that seems completely overlooked in your comments is the engineering basis for software development. The underlying 'change' between one "major" version and another is NOT features! It's the underlying code of the entire application. And there's been major changes undereneath in how the app is coded.

 

THAT is why taking a project from an older major version forward can have troubles. The underlying application code has been modified.

 

And understand ... I "call out" the engineers and supers quite frequently, both here and elsewhere. Back when a previous head decided to kill SpeedGrade, I so ticked him off about that incredibly stupid and shortsighted decision that when I showed up in the Adobe booth at NAB, the staffers would look to see if Al was around ... as if he was, they probably didn't even want to acknowledge I was standing there. Al certainly didn't acknowledge me even standing three feet away.

 

For some additional context, I work daily with both Premiere and Resolve. I am a contributing author over at MixingLight, a pro colorist's teaching website. I participate in both Pr and Resolve forums daily, also LGG.

 

Ain't none of these apps perfect. They all have issues, but can be made to work when they're not ticking you off.

 

Resolve's got awesome color tools,1 which an app that started as a $200,000 per user grading app should. But BM makes a profit on hardware, and Resolve anymore is simply a loss-leader to get you to buy more BM kit. Which is as fine a model as the subscripion process of Adobe, just different.

 

And it means that BM doesn't really fully support use of say my Tangent Elements panel. It can be used BUT ... neither the user nor Tangent staff are allowed to set any mapping. The mapping is really stupid, was clearly done in a rush without paying attention to the capabilities of the panel years ago. It leaves the majority of the tools of the panel 'black', non-functional, at all times. And hasn't changed in years.

 

BM's answer person on their forums also makes it very clear that mapping ain't gonna change. EVER.

 

Again, because ... they want you to buy BM kit. Which is fine, but I don't have room for having two big control surfaces on my desktop. In Premiere, my Elements panel is mapped for not only color but the audio Track mixer, rotating/sizing/positioning graphics & screen elements, all sorts of stuff.

 

And while I can still sorta use it in Resolve, a BM panel only ever works in BM applications ... intentionally.

 

But the Resolve UI is no more more customizable than the mapping for Tangent panels within the app. If you like the way the UI is laid out, great. I've got friends that LOVE the Resolve UI. I find it a royal pain in the tush.

 

And for those working in Resolve, especially in editing (where Resolve is still trying to catch up) but also in graphics, sound, and even color ... there are still work-arounds you have to know for things that just don't work well otherwise. Or are bluntly far easier to do in Avid or Premiere.

 

So in general I prefer working in Pr, especially for editing/graphics/sound. And I can push Lumetri around to do most of what my Resolve based friends do. Or go to Resolve at need.

 

These apps are simply TOOLS. Fancy hammers. Use what works for your client needs. And annoys you the least. All my colorist buds have long lists of things they consider bugs with Resolve that haven't been fixed since R15 or earlier. But they still know how to work with it as it exists now to get stuff out the door.

 

And post the HADES out of UserVoice. Tell the engineers what you want different, and bug all your friends to upvote your UV posts.

 

And ... apparently, they're doing another migration, going to bring more of the bug/feature stuff with devs to this forum from UV. Adobe ... sheesh, they're always migrating something. And yea, the constanly shifting parts are annoying.

 

Neil

 

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Community Expert ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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As a further example of something many of us didn't understand ... when that new "Import/Edit/Export"  ... "page?" ... process was added in 2022. It seemed to be something that many people thought was clearly a YouTuber idea.

 

But in discussing things at NAB, the devs found that whole idea just bizarre. Because YouTube didn't have squat to do with the changes.

 

Let's go back to the 2021 and previous versions. They had a 'new project' panel which had Name, Location, and Create, which were used for every new project.

 

And like 10 other options and two tabs worth of things that no one ever touched.

 

So they dumped that old one and built a new project creation "Import" page. Which still had the Name, Location, Create options as of old. And the devs simply expected all regular users to continue doing the 'obvious' Name, Location, and Create project, skipping the center section's import process. And building our projects as we always had. Which wasn't touched at all.

 

But they replaced the never-used other things for that Import page with a flat-file project startup process.

 

Why? Because for those working in say TV newsrooms, they come in, get assigned 8-10 different short projects to be done in a couple hours. Each has a folder already on their server with perhaps a talking head clip or two, an on-site shot, and some b-roll. The Job is to make three cuts, a two minute, one minute, and 30 second cut, so at broadcast they can pick which they want to use for time constraints.

 

This new Import/Project startup process is awesome. They select the folder, even tell Pr to put all on a sequence. I understand a lot then simply use a pancake process to cut bits from the 'everything' sequence to the several shorter sequences. It's an awesome speed-demon for that need.

 

There's several thousand daily users in that category, most of whom work for Major Corporations. And Adobe ... works with Major Corporations very closely.

 

So what most users thought was a total YouTube thing had absolutely squat to do with what we thought it did. For a lot of those in newsroom work, this was a huge thing.

 

Will I ever use that process? Nah, it's not of any interest.

 

Do I insist that anyone that does is not a professional? That to me would be absurd.

 

Neil

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Explorer ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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Hey Neil, thank you for the fast and detailed reply. I actually really enjoyed reading it, I don't mind sarcasms, I'm not an engineer, if you think I'm wrong on something you can be as harsh as you want. I see some really good points along with some doesn't make sense. But before I get to them I also want to be clear on couple parts:

"An adult normally is expected to accept that others will think differently."
"About the app? Yea ... like when you wanna throw something at your expensive monitor ... ha. But the people here? Just ... why?"

I have absolutely no intention to throw at you or anyone anything, I do not know you, or anyone in Adobe, I have no intention on knowing you and I believe you feel the same way. But as I mentioned, I'm done keeping my silence about this. 🙂

And I feel like you are clearly invested in some of the points I made, so I kind of understand this weird "You are not using it, so it's not professional" point of yours on my list. But that wasn't my intention, and I don't think just because I don't use something it doesn't make it towards newbie users. I'm just mentioning them because there are already tons of requests and bugfixes that could have been priotized. Sure you might have more knowledge on this because I'm neither an engineer or an adobe employee. But I feel like I should be free to ask, don't you think? And I believe you could agree with me that we got more features towards newbie users than actual pro users. That is the main problem.

Lets go.

"Inner and outer strokes.."
So if you don't use it, it's not "professional"?

- Why didn't you add this 20 years ago? Did Asian TV wasn't your customer back then?
- This is something I see as a very good example of bad decision making on Adobe's side, because you can achieve this in a way that's way more advanced, faster and easier using just Dynamic Link. Don't you think instead of wasting precious development time to making barely usable moGFX tools to make Dynamic Link better? You did something similiar with AE by disabling lots of render settings, and forcing people to use Media Encoder.
- Was this something that hard to do? I'm geniunely curious, please take no offense.

 

"- Flexible alignment controls.."

No question I would have liked them also. But ... they were 'new' to Pr in this version. Are you saying they shouldn't have mentioned it?

- I'm saying it should have been existed long ago, and don't see it as a "major" feature. I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion.

"- Bulk edit titles on the timeline"

I work in Resolve, and there's things that can't be bulk applied even there. Again, it's new to this application, adds a lot of functionality. But you think it shouldn't have been mentioned because it shoulda already been there. Right.

- I don't mind the bulk edit functionality. It's cool. But while you say "This doesn't exist in Resolve" I want to make some things clear. This exist in Premiere just for "Titles". You can't edit any clip settings when you select multiple clips. While in Resolve you can edit settings for multiple clips just fine, just not the text settings. You have to copy and paste "Attributes" which is multiple clicks, and takes time. To be honest, I find Resolve superior here. Some might disagree. I don't mind. If it wasn't "titles" I could have already bulk update every text settings by using just a single .mogfx file. If titles are necessary I'd just use a script. But I understand this wouldn't be ideal for %99.9 of the users, understandable.

"- 2x Faster Motion Graphics templates"

Not even a logical statement. Faster mogrts work might be due to changes in project file coding structure. Or might have nothing to do with the underlying project file changes. "We" don't know because we're not writing the code, are we?


- I do write code, writing codes saved me days or even weeks. This doesn't make me an engineer, I'm just a basic scripter who writes basic for loops at best next to you or any developer. But I'm a fast learner, so keep the infos coming with those lovely sarcasms.
- The reason I said that is that, David mentioned that these things were "major" changes because "The project format changes, meaning its no longer directly backwards compatible"
- I see your point. Thank you for clarifying "Faster mogrts work might be due to changes in project file coding structure" I actually didn't thought of that. So I have a follow-up question on this, when I look at an application and it's project file structure, especially the modern applications, it's usually pretty basic, definition of files, timelines etc.. I'm sure it gets very complicated at some point, but is this the actual reason for that speed up or just a guess to disprove my point? Because I see dynamic link as just a reference to a .ae file and the comp inside it. So I'm very curious to learn the logic behind why that would be the cause of the speed up.

"So a common theme in your posts is that anything that you need is "major", but if it isn't affecting you directly, it's not worth mentioning."

- I actually never even said anything close to "worth" mentioning, I have absolutely no idea how you get to that conclusion, but let me be clear. I do not see them as features that should be glorified on a version that's considered "major". But sure definitely write them. What I'm saying is that total combination of these updates are not worthy of saying "major" updates to me. Changing a default preset doesn't seem like it.

"Well gee, I don't work with Arri Alexa 35 except for testing purposes, so clearly, I ain't professional."

Haha.

"Something that seems completely overlooked in your comments is the engineering basis for software development. The underlying 'change' between one "major" version and another is NOT features! It's the underlying code of the entire application. And there's been major changes undereneath in how the app is coded.

THAT is why taking a project from an older major version forward can have troubles. The underlying application code has been modified."

I've read other comments you wrote about this matter, yes I'm pretty sure they did change a lot of things in the background without us even knowing. But again, I'm not an engineer. Please try to explain this to me as if you are trying to explain it to a cat.

Why does this a problem in Premiere, while it is not in let's say Blender? I'm pretty sure Blender has extremely more complicated project files, but it has no issues that you are saying.

And also isn't this a weird "thing"? Just because "The underlying application code has been modified." you wouldn't be able to import lets say project file that only has simple cuts of a single video, sounds really weird to me. Again I'm genuinely curious on it.

------------------------
From

"Resolve's got awesome color tools.."

To

"And while I can still sorta use it in Resolve"

- I agree with almost everything you said here Neil, but none of these has anything to do with these issues we are having with Adobe. I also do not feel the need for buying more BM kit. My work doesn't require it, but others might do, and it might be a turnoff. But again, absolutely has nothing to do with my or people's issues on Adobe 🙂

"And for those working in Resolve, especially in editing (where Resolve is still trying to catch up) but also in graphics, sound, and even color ... there are still work-arounds you have to know for things that just don't work well otherwise. Or are bluntly far easier to do in Avid or Premiere."

- Hard disagree with this 🙂 Editing in Resolve is way past Premiere. Only loss here I'd say Dynamic Link. Which I don't use for performance reasons already. I can do whatever you do editing wise in Premiere, I can do easily 2x 3x faster in Resolve (I can also do it 2x 3x faster in Premiere trust me, but not the point of this discussion.)

"These apps are simply TOOLS. Fancy hammers. Use what works for your client needs. And annoys you the least. All my colorist buds have long lists of things they consider bugs with Resolve that haven't been fixed since R15 or earlier. But they still know how to work with it as it exists now to get stuff out the door."

- I agree they are just tools. But paid tools. Sadly Premiere is starting to fails to deliver on this matter in my opinion. Your friends are probably using the application's coloring features to the maximum, that's why they find a lot of bugs, I don't.

However if you grab a random person and tell them to use Premiere, they'll feel weird when they want to select a Sequence Preset and see the application try to load each setting that takes like 5 seconds, and say "why is this application is so slow?"

"And post the HADES out of UserVoice. Tell the engineers what you want different, and bug all your friends to upvote your UV posts."

- Honestly, things I'm asking or people asking are not luxury, most of those requests are basic UX problems, or rather straight up bugs that shouldn't go have gone live. Otherwise I'd do that 🙂

----------------------------

"As a further example of something many of us didn't understand... - But they replaced the never-used other things for that Import page with a flat-file project startup process."

This is a very bad UI/UX Design for most users in my opinion, it caused more problems while fixed nothing as far as i know. And UI is very sluggish, changes between the tabs feels like I'm torturing the sofware. This problem doesn't exist in Resolve. Yes yes.. I know it's not as customizable as Premiere... Yes.. fine.

"There's several thousand daily users in that category, most of whom work for Major Corporations. And Adobe ... works with Major Corporations very closely."

I have no doubt this change was awesome for them, but I am pretty sure a UI/UX design could have been achieved that could fit both them and the other users who doesn't like this change. Feels rushed. Even a simple change as making the "Import" Page just smaller, because it takes a lot of time to move the cursor on the screen. This is the same problem exists with "Export" panel. Check : https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/45062362-the-new-export-scr...

Also most of the "Upload to ..." doesn't actually work properly for me as well. While it works just fine with Resolve, for example I can upload to Vimeo without any issues.

---------------------------

"Do I insist that anyone that does is not a professional? That to me would be absurd."

I agree it would be.


------------------------------------------------

I'm also very curious about the things you didn't answer like for example being able to properly save and share our settings. I can share my Blender settings if you want. Of course this also goes for things like sluggish UI that doesn't meet the standards of modern applications. I feel like "everyone" could use that upgrades.

Cheers.

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Community Expert ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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LOVE the long detailed response!

 

First comment ... I'm a user like you, not an Adobe staffer. I've been to NAB since 2014, and MAX since 2017 (except didn't go to this one just now) ... and I've had the opportunity over the years to build relationships with the managers and some of the engineers. Which has meant getting to ask detailed questions in person, and push for detailed responses. Not always the stuff I want to hear, but hey ... they're pretty honest and as direct as they can be.

 

They all know how critical of many things can be, and well, I'm always pretty direct. And they know I'll not only raise things that are part of my workflow, but a lot of things that come from other users 'here' and elsewhere. I'm going to be grilling them good & hot. And yet, they still break into big smiles when they see me coming, how sweet!

 

Inner/outer strokes

 

Yes, you can do it quickly and well in Ae. Which is probably why it took what, three years to get added into the ESG stuff in Premiere. It was not a huge priority for the devs. But a LOT of Premiere users don't think for pretty basic stuff like strokes that they should always have to run over to Ae to get something done.

 

Similar to the way it's real easy to go to Audition for nearly all sound work in Pr. Yet as easy as that is ... a ton of users do NOT want to have to learn the other app, which like Ae, has a different UI and workflow pattern than Pr. So ... they've brought a bunch of Au stuff into Pr over time. And keep adding a bit more. Personally, I'm in Au for at least half the projects I work on.

 

Whether you or I think strokes or Au sound stuff is necessary, they've got probably more than a million users who like both having more graphics capabilities in Pr as well as having more sound capabilities in Pr.

 

As to "priorities" ...  like most users, I've got a list of maybe 15 things that would for me be a LOT higher than inner/outer strokes and Au 'tricks' in Pr. But I know there's a ton of other users saying get this stuff in Pr NOW.

 

Adobe's CC apps are one small part of that massive company. The main part is actually building the ability to create and use 'metrics' in building user experiences with any particular company. Which is a HUGE part of their own staffing, and of course, sold to other mega-corps as a major part of the Adobe business life. (Another huge segment of Adobe is the Acrobat 'family' of business documentation apps & services.)

 

I refer to the metrics crowd as Marketing & Experience ... M&E. And make no mistake, if M&E says 'do this', the product teams do that. It's part of the heirarchy of Adobe's corporate structure. The apps are technically below the M&E staff.

 

I've had the ... pleasure ... to be 'interviewed' both in-person at NAB and several times via team-tag zooms by Adobe M&E. It's an intriguing experience. I think I very much know what little white lab rats feel like, looking up at the white coated scientists with glasses, pocket protectors and notebooks in hand, poking you, changing your environment, saying things like "Oh, that's ... fascinating, I wonder what happens if I do X?" And then furiously writing notes down.

 

The UserVoice has been the one way we users have had to get real actual metrics 'seen' by the M&E folks, as well as communicate directly to the devs. Would that have been my design? No. But it's what The Company Decreed, so ... it was Done.

 

For example, speakers in the Adobe booths at NAB and IBC, along with the speakers for Adobe MAX ... are all run past M&E. The product teams, like with anything else, can make recommendations ... but M&E has the final say. At NAB, there's always a couple or more speakers who ... well ... coulda been left out and improved the show. People will wonder what the Premiere team was thinking! ... but it was M&E who made those decisions. Sometimes ... because the person is from a Major Corporate Client is probably the main reason. Ah well.

 

Flexible Alignment Controls

 

Agreed, I'd love to have seen that when the EGP was introduced. But it finally is out, and so naturally they list it. I'm rather critical of how poorly the Adobe folks do communicate real working things of their apps to users. So I'm not going to be critical when they do point out a change that has been made.

 

Bulk changes

 

The two apps have their differences where bulk changes are made easy & where they're a bit more work. On the Resolve forums, complaints about having to do extra steps past what they did in Avid or Pr are rather routine.

 

But as you point out, some bulk changes are vastly easier in Resolve. I'd add to that list, color management. Pr was always a total Rec.709 hard-coded app, so no user CM was needed or allowed. But now that we're moving past "SDR" as the only game in ProVille, they're finally getting some user settings for CM. But ... it's been done in a really odd way to me.

 

Burying media CM in a right-click context menu in the Project panel? Really? But to the engineers, that is THE OBVIOUS place any 'normal' user would look for them. Yea, they know I do not find their comments even sensible on that one. Sorry, but to me, that is as illogical as you could get.

 

Which is why I've a user request for an Essential Color Panel ... a separate panel we could have up all the time, docked or floating, with ALL CM controls there. Including all user-changeable defaults, everything. One panel to rule them all ... 😉

 

Color Management Panel

 

Project file changes

 

They have a practice of applying 'major' product file updates and changes on a yearly timeline. It used to be rolled out for NAB, but has for 4-5 years changed to rolling out timed for the first day of Adobe MAX. So all new changes in the underlying code are going to be in those yearly updates. Some effects have to be redone to work with the new base code, and well ... sometimes that's an improvement, sometimes there's a train wreck needing a patch. Life in the computer world.

 

Faster mogrts or other effects

 

Sometimes there's only so many ways to do X within the 'present' basic code. So by changing the underlying base code, one can make other choices possible. Or just use new capabilities in the hardware that didn't exist a year or two ago. There's several things in both Ae and Pr that are faster this build due to underlying base code changes.

 

And a couple things I complain about ... well, for those, the devs have said they'd have to change the underlying code, and that's scheduled down the road for that effect or part of the app. So sometime in the next couple cycles those will get a massive change, but ... not at this time. And that's frustrating.

 

Resolve vs Premiere for Editing

 

This comes up on the MixingLight discussions a fair amount. A number of the colorists love Resolve, and find it faster for their work. Primarily ones that are using the nifty keyboard or 'cut' devices. But a few others simply shake their heads and start listing off several major things for them that Resolve still lags behind both Pr & Avid. Inluding one (rather noted) editor in a recent discussion commenting about Pr having the widest capability for keyboard shortcuts, including user mods of them. And listing a number of things that Resolve simply doesn't have the shorts for.

 

Well ... that's one of those things where if you need and use those shorts, not having them in Resolve is major problem. But if you don't need or use the shorts or even those tools within Resolve ... well, it's not an issue is it? We're all different, every one of use does the same task differently than about any other post-production worker out there. That constantly amazes and intrigues me.

 

And both my 3960x Ryzen desktop w 128GB of RAM, a 2080Ti, a couple Nvme drives for OS and cache files, and all other SSDs for working files and my 4 year old Acer laptop ... work faster and better with Premiere than Resolve. Resolve runs pretty decently on my desktop now, but this laptop is much happier with Pr.

 

But that varies so dramatically between users at this time it's nearly not worth mentioning. For example, I've seen people with almost identical desktops to mine, who throw on a basic mogrt and Pr practically stops. I can run three vid tracks with a couple different mogrts on top, and ... it just works. Why the differences? I haven't a clue. That wild variablity drives me nuts.

 

And I've seen the same things with Resolve, now that over 17 & 18 they've worked very hard to mimic "Adobe" and be the one 'house' for all workflows, users, hardware, OS, and media. I think there is an inherent problem in trying to be all things for all users. There's so many different pieces of kit, media, and workflow needs these days ... it's mind boggling.

 

New Import/Edit/Export tabs

 

I'd never have made those. Period. And you're absolutely right that it's a pain in the tush to use as the Create button is all the frickin' way across the screen, without any keyboard shortcut!!! ... so you have to type a name, then mouse the very upper left corner to set the location, then go COMPLETELY to the opposite corner to click create.

 

BAD design. No question.

 

That said, I've no other problems with the Import page. Just wish you could set the location hit 'enter' and be done. The Export page ... that's worse, and the only way to work with it is to spend the time to eliminate ALL default 'starred' presets, star only the presets you'd use, AND ... make multiple presets for different settings of the same format/codec if you need them. Once you spend the time to do that, it's at least less annoying.

 

Ann Bens here always just says hit the queue to Me, to skip the blame thing entirely. Which is one way to handle it.

 

And I know some people have issues with direct uploads to various services. I've tried those, and never had an issue. But my base practice is nearly always to export to local drive, check the export, then upload. Everyone's mileage always varies, of course.

 

Save and share settings

 

I didn't see anything in your post about saving and sharing settings. So I didn't comment about it, and just went back to reread. Still not sure exactly what you're referring to ... maybe the part about where Adobe apps tend to put user stuff or something? You did have a comment about that.

 

I've constantly complained to the devs about the way that the Adobe apps park crud on our computers ... the user layout settings and some other things are here, presets over there ... it's like four to five places to get all of our personal settings copied from if you want to have a single repository for re-applying them if something breaks.

 

I would really REALLY really prefer ONE freaking user folder, with ALL user stuff, profiles, keyshorts settings, presets, LUTs, EVERYTHING ... but the devs just look at me like that's something kinda obviously stupid and they don't want to be offensive in mentioning it. And yes, that's something I mention every time I see the Pr team. Every. Time.

 

Neil

 

 

 

 

 

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Explorer ,
Oct 21, 2022 Oct 21, 2022

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I thought you were an employee, but saw it way too late, and I sadly can't edit my posts 😕

Thank you for the clarification on lots of things, I don't think I'd need to go over them again now, since I can clearly see we agree on most of them, and rest of them, you explained them very well to me.

Overall as you might notice I really don't like having "workarounds" especially when it's something that should be easy to do and straightforward, but if workaround is needed I'll utilize them to the max. I've seen you help people with the issues that was either related to user or just bad workflows. But sadly, my issues wasn't like those, I've only felt left out as a user when I didn't see any update that would help my any production needs for like probably 4 5 years.Tho I used subtitles a lot, that's cool. These days I just feel like Premiere just wants to fight with me, instead of working with me. Things we discuss here was mostly just recent updates, but of course there a lot more things 😕

And overall, I'm sorry if i went too much with my tone, I'm very frustrated and tired.

Also for settings thing, yeah your suggestion is pretty nice. I was thinking even more simpler, couple json like files for workspaces, keyboard hotkeys etc.. But yes I'd say a simple "folder" sounds even better.

And before I go to sleep, a cool script I made a year ago, https://vimeo.com/680555436/9990d8ff64

You give it list of twitch or youtube clips, downloads & parses the data clip data, initiates & creates a project folder, moves the clips, imports them, creates the sequence, adds the clip to timeline, put the .mogfx & edits it using the data from the data so no human error occurs. 

I like being efficient & automating things, scripting rocks.

Thank you Neil,

Cheers.

 

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Community Expert ,
Oct 22, 2022 Oct 22, 2022

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No problems. And doing that scripting, you are WAY past me in capabilities for getting automated ... jeepers!

 

I find it fascinating that what irrirates one person is just a total sleeper for someone else.

 

For example, a lot of Pr editors are really hacked at the suggestion they might consider previews/proxies or temp t-codes for running 10-bit UHD long-GOP media, especially when they've got multiple tracks of it. They don't like that 'workaround'. And are really, REALLY angry at being 'forced' to do so to get good playback.

 

Some editors have been doing proxies/t-codes for years, it's a routine nearly automated thing ... drop a folder in a watched folder, Me creates the t-codes into X folder. While they're sleeping/lunch/whatever else. Later they drag the clips to the working folder, import/off to the races. Big whoop. They roll their eyes at the above folks.

 

Most of the colorists I know, when they get a job with a few t-bytes or p-bytes of media, sort it ... and if there's any significant long-GOP stuff, that gets t-coded or at the least, on ingest into Resolve, uses the new proxy setup in Resolve. As an assumption part of their workflow.

 

So are t-codes and proxies a workaround or simply a normal (big-yawn normal) fact of post-production life?

 

Kinda depends on your experience & attitude it seems ...

 

Neil

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