dunker56
Explorer
dunker56
Explorer
Activity
‎Jul 27, 2020
03:12 AM
The goal here was to see if I could save a series of actions and brush work for some skin retouching and strayhair removal for a file, thus if I changed the images render I would not have to redo all the work again but play the Action. Example; Lightroom; IMG9023 is a RAW DNG (a studio portrait). I choose to render it Mono with a Preset 'Agfa Scala 200'. I Edit In>PS and head off to PS for the indepth skin retouching whilst recording the actions and brush strokes (I name the action 'IMG9023') I hand the client the image, they are happy but want to also see a colour version. It is not possible to revert mono back to colour without having to do the skin retouching all over again, so I find the original IMG9023 file, render colour now (Agfa Optima 200), Edit In>PS and run the action 'IMG9023' (thus saving the extensive retouch work again). This is preferable workflow because Presets and 3dLUTs prefer to work with camera RAW files than PS edited Tiff files. My testing thus far is showing the Action Playback to not hold for different brush sizes or hardness. Is this the limit of this feature or have I failed to do something that needs ticked somewhere? I should note my brush size and hardness changes were done via Alt+Right Click Mouse and panning mouse up/down/left/right. Perhaps actually using the menu value stores the changes? TIA Dunker
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‎Jul 27, 2020
03:01 AM
The goal here was to see if I could save a series of actions and brush work for some skin retouching and strayhair removal for a file, thus if I changed the images render I would not have to redo all the work again but play the Action. Example; Lightroom; IMG9023 is a RAW DNG (a studio portrait). I choose to render it Mono with a Preset 'Agfa Scala 200'. I Edit In>PS and head off to PS for the indepth skin retouching whilst recording the actions and brush strokes (I name the action 'IMG9023') I hand the client the image, they are happy but want to also see a colour version. It is not possible to revert mono back to colour without having to do the skin retouching all over again, so I find the original IMG9023 file, render colour now (Agfa Optima 200), Edit In>PS and run the action 'IMG9023' (thus saving the extensive retouch work again). This is preferable workflow because Presets and 3dLUTs prefer to work with camera RAW files than PS edited Tiff files. My testing thus far is showing the Action Playback to not hold for different brush sizes or hardness. Is this the limit of this feature or have I failed to do something that needs ticked somewhere? I should note my brush size and hardness changes were done via Alt+Right Click Mouse and panning mouse up/down/left/right. Perhaps actually using the menu value stores the changes? TIA Dunker Original Recording Brush Work Playback Action, right place, wrong brush sizes/hardness
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‎Jul 20, 2020
01:52 PM
Thanks for your reply. LR vs PS is pros and cons. Not always do I need to visit PS for advanced destructive work. Weddings and events for example typically do not require PS destructive work, at least not on many shots (perhaps 10%), thus LR is incredibly useful as a synchronisation application to render many images in succession to looking like an edit you're currently working on. So LR has its uses. I am not aware of Camera Raw or Bridge having this Synchronisation capability, but perhaps I am wrong? Weddings & Event work I have typically more scope for changing the art direction for the client (due to not visiting PS as much). If the render I have chosen in LR is not to the clients liking then I can pretty easily choose another without losing the various soft retouches and radial filters etc in LR. So, your advice whilst welcome still does not really address the question at hand. This is about saving (potential) time, being able to perform 'destructive' layer work to an image file that has been rendered, but also is it possible to apply that same work just performed to another version of that image that has not yet been rendered, thus providing a kind of failsafe (although not ideal) should the rendered version deemed not suitable, without having to redo the destructive layering work all over again... Can I for example have two files open in PS; IMG1 IMG1VirtualCopy (rendered version) The two files are indentical in terms of composition and crop, only difference is exposure, shadows, and render etc on the IMG1VirtualCopy (we could even pretend the IMG1VirtualCopy is a mono shot now and the original IMG1 still colour). If I have these files open in PS, and I perform the destructive work as layers on the Img1VirtualCopy, can I then simply copy these layers into the IMG1 file? Would that work? Due to render and exposure differences would the destructive layer work just simply be ill advised due to native differences between the two files...?
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‎Jul 20, 2020
02:07 AM
After posting this, I've had a thought. Lets say I did the following; LR>DNG>Rendered Mono (with a preset from a bought for package)>Edit in PS>Apply Frequency Separation and stray hair removal>Save/Export Could I 'save' the layer work on the file, regardless of the Background Layer? Meaning... if for example the client decided mono was not the best choice after all and wants colour, I could then do the following; LR>DNG>Render Colour this time>Edit in PS>Load the layers and work I had previously done on the mono version and apply>Save/Export Thus... the work that has been done can be redone/applied quickly regardless of the background layer used? Would that work?
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‎Jul 20, 2020
01:34 AM
Ok, I'll jump right in with the question first and then back paddle with some background info afterwards to help explain things. First up, I am a 'professional' photographer, taking payments from clients for various work such as shop commissions, weddings and studio. Because its paid work I tend to prioritise the time I take to finalise a job to being pretty important. I used inverted commas around 'professional' because I also recognise this industry has a massive variance between skill levels, I consider myself an early professional, still in my first 1-2yrs of offering services and thus my speed in post processing pretty immature. Ok, so now onto the question; In PS, is there a way to have two 'semi' identical files open (same image, but different rendering, such as a mono and colour version of the same file) and for the treatment/brush work used on one file to being easily synced/duplicated/ported to the other file (in PS)? So here is the workflow issue. With LR, I have bought many presets and 3DLUTs for my work. All of them need to support the camera model no. and work with the cameras RAW file in order to best generate its preset/LUT accurately. If you take the RAW file (DNG in my case) and then visit PS with it first to do some destructive retouching (frequency separation/stray hair removal etc), then when that file comes back to LR it is a .PNG or .TIFF file and the renderers (Presets/LUTS) although will apply do not corresponde very accurately with their DNG (RAW) counterparts. Thus I'm left with a connundrum with client work. If I choose a render first in LR (Preset/LUT), mono for example, then I get an accurate and true render for which to complete the rest of my PS workflow (skin retouching/stray hair removal). But what if after the advanced work in PS the client changes their mind and now want a colour version or a different render than the one I chose. It basically means advanced retouching all over again 😞 So currently my workflow goes > LR>basic adjustments>PS>Advanced destructive editing>LR>Render. The issue is that after the Advanced destructive editing in PS, the LR render is simply not as good as doing the following; LR>basic adjustments>Render>PS>Advanced destructive editing. (here's a small video to give you an idea of that work render workflow. It does seem that most professionals do the render and adjustments first before heading off to PS for the more advanced and destructive retouching; https://youtu.be/DAZRwQB2erY) So I got thinking... what if I could kill two birds with one stone? What if I could (in LR) create a virtual copy, render one of the copies with a preset/LUT and the other without. Take both files too PS and do the destructive work, but instead of having to do the brushwork twice, do it on one file only, but have those changes applied to the other image/file in PS as well. This might provide me with a kind of failsafe. If the client did not like my render approach/direction (fairly rare), then I could at least use the other file and that has had the PS treatment without the LR render to go another route. Despite it being a TIFF and not as 'pliable' as it's DNG counterpart, its better than nothing. TIA dunker.
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‎Apr 05, 2020
05:57 PM
Ok so I think I have resolved the issue and I noticed I was fighting an issue on two fronts. Firstly, I went back and inspected the reimported sRGB jpg more closely. It appears at first (the initial screenshot above) that when putting side by side they are the same, but in fact they are not. If I toggle quickly between the original Tiff with the exported and reimported sRGB Jpg then there is a slight darkening of the image on the jpg. I'm putting this shift down to the loss of information when viewing a 16 bit ProPhoto Tiff file in a supported ProPhoto 16 bit environment of LR to comparing with a 8 bit sRGB Jpg pulled back into the same environment. But that's not the whole story, because if it was just that, then the side by side comparison of the shots (seen in screenshot 1) would be more like what we see in screenshot 2, but we can see that this image is still quite a bit darker still. I stumbled upon this article; https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic/lightroom-export-issues-colour-saturation/td-p/10086489?page=1 I took Sahil's answer and acted upon it, opening Colour Management in Windows 10, selecting the BenQ monitor and instead of using the Default Benq one I clicked 'Add' and selected the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 and then set it to default. Now I exited LR and restarted it, upon reloading I could immediately see my files were looking far more darker than they were before, something more akin the the exports, so I think there we have it. Can you see why using sRGB IEC61966-2.1 as a colour profile for my monitor would be a bad thing?
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‎Apr 05, 2020
05:49 PM
Agreed, however in this instance I did not think the issue was due to calibration per se or brightness. If my screen is too bright or colours in accurate, there would still exist a shift what I see in LR and the export. This issue is to do with a darkening/exposure issue between LR and the export, a calibrated monitor would still see this.
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‎Apr 05, 2020
05:47 PM
Yes, its a darkened border as Faststone Image has a bright border naturally and threw things off even more, I did also think like you that perhaps its optical trickery but no... it's consistently darker with different toned backgrounds or applications.
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‎Apr 05, 2020
09:46 AM
I seem to have an issue with LR/PS showing my files brighter than they ought to be. At first it could appear that the exports are the issue, and that the exports are coming out underexposed, too dark, punchy and contrasty, but it appears that's not the case. This first screenshot shows the Tiff edit on the left. On the right is the exported Jpg (sRGB) of said Tiff edit on the left reimported back into LR for comparison, it looks fine and showing similar exposure levels. This second screenshot shows the Exported sRGB Jpg on the right overlaying the Tiff in LR, and as you an see its quite a bit darker. The exported Jpg is being shown in FastStone Image Viewer which supports CMS (Colour Management System) and has it enabled. The same result shows when the Jpg is viewed in Ifranview (once again when you enable the CMS), or if I upload the image to flickr or view in Opera (a CMS capable browser), again the image is darker than what appears in LR or PS environments. Essentially the exported image views consistently dark on all browsers and viewers, monitors and platforms, it is even more darker on phone screens (due to phones not having CMS I presume). My Samsung A20 phone screen settings; At these settings when looking at the image on flickr app it appears even darker, deeper blacks and seeing where the scarf and shirt meet is very difficult to see, unlike the LR/PS versions. The issue as I see it is LR and PS are actually showing things incorrectly, too bright and thus making edits difficult to do. There's nothing wrong with the exports, the fact that an export reimported back into LR and is displaying similarly as the original proves the exporting process is not an issue.Nor is this a ProPhoto>sRGB issue (I think I can detect a slight variance in colour from the reimported sRGB Jpg, proving the subtle differences between ProPhoto and sRGB spectrum, but that doesn't explain the shift in exposures). What's going on? I have never installed drivers for this new photographic monitor) monitor (less than 2 months old), just plug and play. I have yet to calibrate my monitor, but before you all go off the deep end screaming at me, hear me out. First up this is my monitor I am using; BenQ PD3200U OSD Setup & Calibration I quote; "The RGB sliders work well but we could not improve on the PD3200U’s amazing out-of-box accuracy with an instrumented calibration." and "Picture Advanced offers eight image presets of which Standard is the default and best mode. sRGB and Rec.709 are also highly accurate." and "We measured all the picture modes and found Standard, the default, to be the most accurate for grayscale, gamma, and color gamut. sRGB and Rec.709 are essentially perfect as well." and "Despite our best efforts, we could not improve on the out-of-box numbers which are pretty much flawless. We recommend sticking with Standard mode and simply setting brightness to taste. Even a LUT calibration is unlikely to yield any gains" It was my intention to get around to getting a calibrator, I just haven't bought one yet (I wanted to see how it was out of the box). Now... if I change modes of my monitor, between say Standard and sRGB, or play with brightness levels, the differences between how the files appear in LR and how they appear as Exports in all capable viewers still shows that shift. I just can't understand how greater colour accuracy or more appropriate brightness levels for my current working environment would somehow make LR and PS working environment somehow get dimmer or resemble more closely what the exports would be like once spat out. Furthermore, when I started to try and troubleshoot this I came across other users reporting similar shifts in the exports (I just googled 'Lightroom exports are too dark' etc), and quite a few of those leads seemed to have people who had calibrated monitors still experiencing this problem. For some it was because their image viewer was not good enough to view the sRGB jpg very well, or show its colour management. I tried exporting the file from PS instead of LR and ensure the 'Embed Colour Profile' was correct, the file came out fine colour wise but again just too dim. Like I say, I feel the dim file is correct and it's LR/PS set up incorrect somehow and not matching realistically what would be the end file result... This surely can't just be a ProPhoto 16 bit > sRGB 8 bit Jpg issue... can it? But by all means, if this is all down to monitor calibration then I guess I will have to front up the $200 and get one... as it's just a bit annoying to spend 20-30mins getting tones and shadows just right in LR/PS and then export (and expecting a loss of some range) but then to actually be met with quite a different darkened version altogether. Cheers.
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‎Jul 14, 2019
12:01 AM
1 Upvote
Thanks for this! And sorry for the late reply (life got busy!). This was exactly the missing piece to the puzzle that I think I needed to make it work! Thanks again! (and everyone else that helped)
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‎Jul 09, 2019
06:52 PM
Yeah that sounds way over my head and technical ability. It's just such a shame, I can create an action to put the png watermark into the shot as a layer, have it resized so that it's the right size for every picture (regardless of resolution or orientation etc), but it's centred, and if I align it with the Layer>Align feature then it puts it right on the bottom. If I use the Free Transform tool and simply drag it down to the edge (using the pink guidelines) it lines up perfectly! But that dragging is recorded in the Action as a pixel movement and not point or percentage or whatever it needs to be so that from image to image it would be correct, instead it's not so I must manually drag it down. I mean I'm moving in the right direction, it's just when you have 50-80 images like this... urgh..
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‎Jul 09, 2019
05:15 PM
So, I'm no PS guru (clearly...), I'm just trying to see if I can speed up my final touches in PP specifically in relation to bordering and watermarking. Thus far I have successfully set up a Action to apply a thin black border around the image followed by a far thicker white one (where the watermark sits and additional text could be applied). Example; The Watermark is a PNG file and I pretty much drag it in, Free transform etc etc. I'm looking to streamline this process and possibly add the option to have it off centred slightly for additional text to be added next to the water mark, but once that text is complete then the whole thing (watermark + description of the image) would be centred nicely. But for now I'd be happy to just have the watermark situated perfectly and relative to the image for every file I create/edit. The issue I have found thus far is when bringing the png file in (and it's a layer), in regards to resizing (I used 15%) that was fine, but then telling it where to sit was based only on pixels and not points or percentage of the Background layer/image, or rather I cannot figure out how to do that. My images vary, some 1:1 aspect ratio, some portrait, some of the images are hardly cropped (36mp), some heavily cropped (15mp etc), so to have the watermark placed at certain pixels means that when running this action it is not consistent with where it sits. Can this be done? It feels as though I need to somehow tell the watermark where to place in relation to the background layer and in terms of percentage rather than pixels, or points? Not sure... Furthermore, can we include a space for text to be inputted next to it and then the watermark and text together get centred? Hmm... I'm just getting out of my depth here so need some help. Cheers! Eddy
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‎May 12, 2019
04:39 AM
Cool, didn't know that. I guess the video shows a border solution only, much like the LR Print module ideas do too, but none of these suggestions can solve the idea of placing the watermark in the bordering as well, or do they? I mean from a purely batch process perspective. I just finished an album, 169 images where I had to do this. LR/Mogrify 2 enabled me to do 135 in one go pretty swiftly, meaning it managed the bordering AND watermark in one batch process. But this was because each of the 135 images from the 169 were very similar, 3:2 ratio, very close in megapixel size etc. There are variances but not enough to really nit pick over. What was annoying were the other 34 images, they didn't do very well batch wise, hence this thread. I'm now wondering if perhaps I need a border with a jpg of the signature embedded, and then a batch process to have that applied (as a layer?) to the images and scaled (percentage overlap, 110% etc) to the image regardless of aspect ratio and mega pixel and then outputted via Image Processing or something... Just trying to think outside the box. The problem I think with that is then when the ratio changes the font/signature would too, get squished or stretched... urgh...
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‎May 12, 2019
04:28 AM
Not with using LR/Mogrify 2, you can apply the watermark off the image and onto the finished border (because it adds the border to the image and then adds the watermark after (technically onto the 'new' image which now has border added).
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‎May 12, 2019
01:30 AM
This doesn't address watermarking inside the border though.. or does it? I saw this today, thought this might work if I use 'percentage' instead of pixels? Photoshop action for adding border to multiple images with different aspect ratio - YouTube But then I still have to work out a process to then add the watermarking, to be scaled and fit right inside the applied bordering... hmm...
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‎May 11, 2019
10:22 PM
I thought about using the Print Module, but will it actually work via a percentage scheme vs pixels? Lets say you have one image that is 36mp and native aspect ratio 3:2. You want to add border (but not lose image size or pixels, add means ADD), and also have the watermark in the border like shown above. But then another image is taken with a 24mp camera and made to 1:1 aspect ratio. The idea is that the program or output will put the SAME thickness of bordering around each image, without compromising the size of the image, and also adding the watermark and automatically resizing it so that it fits in the bordering and appears the same, regardless of size of file, aspect ratio and such. TBH I think I can handle the renaming of files, not a biggy, and Jpg export is fine. I'll have a look at it again, it just appeared on first glance to not being up to the task.
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‎May 11, 2019
04:14 PM
I'm looking for a solution to batch processing images where I can add white bordering and my signature/watermark inside the bordering, like shown below; Probably hard to see on this forum due to the white background, but the signature is sitting in a white border frame. Thus far I have done this process by taking the image to PS (if not already in PS) and then increasing Canvas size and dragging my PNG water mark inside and resizing and positioning it (ZZzzzz....) It's ok when doing it for a shot here or there, but I also do event work (paid and non paid), the non paid stuff I tend to always watermark like this, but if there are 20, 40, 100 shots like this... that means popping into PS for each and every shot (for this process) whereas it's quite feasible I edited things purely in LR (and used Syncing features) to be quick about things, popping into PS for this process for each and every shot kinda defeats the purpose. There has to be a quick way to handling this, even outside of LR/PS? Thus far I tried the LR/Mogrify2 plugin. It was ok, but it seems restrictive with applying bordering in terms of only pixel parameters and not percentage. Even if two images are same aspect ratio, if one is heavily cropped and the other native, applying the same border will mean different thickness. The same can be said for watermarking. I don't even mind sorting the images out in terms of orientation (portrait shots vs landscape), and then processing them separately, but the Mogrify 2 has no preview mode, so you're also just having to wait for the export of 'x' amount of shots, then go back and see which images have the bordering and watermark in really bad placements and go back and try fixing again. I'll have a look again, I might be missing some options, I don't know the plugin that well. I dunno.. it strikes me this part of photography isn't getting enough attention, is there an advanced program that might do what Mogrify 2 can do but better, with previews etc? TIA! Eddy
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‎Dec 03, 2018
08:14 PM
Well we all have different financial means, I'd upgrade the NUC and sort storage issues out then make use of the Library feature fully (obviously) but that's not a viable option currently. Correct me if I am wrong but the only way to 'Sync' (edit) settings across images is with the Library tool? When in Develop module for example, you either expand the catalog from being a film strip at the bottom to being on the second monitor, and then using Ctrl key select the images you want to sync etc. This is a highly crucial feature I need for my work, it's a reason I haven't left Adobe in favour of other editors as they all seem to miss the synchronisation aspect. Can Syncing of edited image settings be completed in ACR? Furthermore I use various Presets such as VSCO and RNI, can they too be accessed from ACR or only LR? These days I am trying to restrict my access to PS as whatever changes I make to an image there can't be synced when back to LR etc. It's quite simple really, poor man, poor system, trying to find a balance between using the features I need whilst keeping optimisation at it's maximum, until inheritance money kicks in
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‎Dec 03, 2018
06:17 PM
Ok thanks for that, detailed and great approach. What I am now concerned about is performance. At the time I had actually 3400 images in my Catalog. Performance was sluggish, even when not in Develop mode but just from the import of new images, selecting images from the Library, selecting multiple images for sync purposes and all stuff like that, it was sluggish. Since moving to a new catalog with just 24 photos, it's like a fresh install again So I am hesitant to go back to having one catalog as although the fix your presented would work help older files etc, I'm wary it will return the sluggish LR interface and actually possibly make it even worse (by finding more images). So... two things; 1) Is there a way to build the catalog back up but somehow have things working more fluid with a large catalog? 2) When you do the 'ADD' option erase old edits at all? Cheers.
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‎Dec 01, 2018
01:24 AM
Thanks for that. I have a feeling LR is just set up for certain systems. A nice powerful desktop with multiple HDD trays and yer set. Or.. you move to cloud based LR. A NUC with 250gb SSD and and Australia's ADSL2+ net speeds (5mb/s dl, 0.8mb/s ul) makes cloud based options null void . I used to own a higher powered desktop machine, but when you get months of 38-45 degree Celsius days powering a lot of tech for times when you really only access certain disks is not fun in terms of additional heat generated. Moving to the NUC has been mostly a positive change, the low noise, low heat has been a welcome relief. But I've had to 'juggle' files and that's come at a price, but mostly only this issue gas been the worst outcome of all. I understood that LR can import direct from a sd card, I tried that. I understand LR can change preview modes so it lowers the detail and increases speed of import, I understand LR can handle the culling procedure and I tried that also. We all shoot differently, in the end I found FastStone Image to being the least fussy fastest way of managing my work flow. I tried to leave adobe behind, tried Affinity etc, but in the end valued the Sync aspect of LR too much to leave it. I also value Presets and the sync aspect of that, something that is seldom featured in other software (perhaps C1 only). I do use PS for masking, layers and other plugins, but where possible staying within LR is quickest. I tag most of my work on flickr (4000 images) so I can locate older files. I can edit them even though they would be jpgs. Nicer to tinker with the RAW for sure. You must have a nice PC, because moving from a catalog of 3400 to 24 has made a significant difference to the work/interaction speeds I'm getting.
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‎Dec 01, 2018
12:16 AM
During the time taken to get the responses I was in Live Chat with an adobe rep. We created a File>New Catalog and named it something appropriate, and I was even able to select 24 images from the last catalog and port them into the new one. I now have a catalog that has 24 images, an incredibly faster load time and user experience (night and day difference). My old catalog (the only one I've ever had or used) had actually over 3400 images in it (not 2400 I thought, I'm number dyslexic). I cannot possibly go through that old catalog and find missing files etc, I imagine 95% are missing anyway as the majority of files have been moved to the external HDD. I simply don't have the time to do that. You wrote that effectively by creating a new catalog you lose the old edits... this is not correct though is it? What's stopping me at any time from File>Open Catalog, selecting old catalog, and then selecting the image I want to revisit, getting the 'missing file' notification and either manually finding the RAW file from my HDD and putting it back to where the catalog wants it to be, or tell the catalog to 'check out this location for the missing file' and wait a bit? I repeat... in my 2yrs of shooting I have yet to actually want to revisit a file for touch ups, it's not a scenario I am likely to face, but just in case it would be nice to be able to do that. How is having multiple catalogs effectively stopping me from doing this exactly? Where I find 'library' and 'catalogs' handy is when working in a single session/shoot. I edit a shot, choose the style, edit the presets etc, and then for continuation/consistency/speed of work flow purposes use the Sync feature. But once I have done those edits, and a week or two passes, I am unlikely to really revisit those images for tweaks again.
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‎Nov 30, 2018
10:52 PM
Does abandoning this current catalog and starting a new one mean I lose the old catalog and the edits? I'm in the middle of editing a session, can I create a New Catalog and move some of the images from the old catalog to the new one?
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‎Nov 30, 2018
09:15 PM
I use synchronisation of LR images a lot, so it most definitely is for me, as well as using a fair few paid Presets that I find incredibly useful... but I digress... 1) When I do my Windows Explore moving of files, it's because I am moving other files as well, some musical etc. Using LR to move some of the library files might work, but can it move the export files as well? It seemed to me simpler to use a 3rd party synchronisation software when doing the migrating of files from the SSD to HDD, a one click and it's moving various files. It's made even better because once that sync is complete I start another sync which then makes a back up of the back up . Two clicks, done. So for that reason I am not overly keen to start getting LR to do the moving of files, it's an additional weekly/fortnightly step I don't want to make. 2) I don't want to start a process where I gradually redirect LR to my moved files. I have a library of 2400 files (from this installation alone), I have WAY more files that than, and not ONCE have I actually needed to go back and tinker with an edit from 6-24 months ago. BUT... I would like to be able to, should the situation ever arise (rather than working on that file from scratch). Starting a process whereby I gradually reconnect LR to my moved files sounds awfully like toggling on the HDD's way too often (remember, I like having it off for 95% of the time, turning it on for only half an hour or so once a week/fortnight is preferable). 3) Abandoning the catalog sounds like losing editing work of 2400 files, is this what you're actually suggesting? Can I not turn on my HDD's now, export the library/catalog to the HDD, perhaps not all of it but perhaps 90% of it and store it on the HDD? Then... should I ever need to go back to an edit I can import that catalog back into LR, and locate the file either manually or tell LR to scan 'this folder <points to HDD where the RAW files now live>' let it scan, do it's thing and then edit from where I last left off? Essentially I use the Library feature a lot, but only the past 50-100 images typically. Not 2400. I have a feeling clearing out the library might gain some better performance, but then again it might not, but I think I would find images a little easier than dragging the side scroll bar up and down so much.
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‎Nov 30, 2018
08:26 PM
In an effort to speed up my LR experience I am curious if on my system a clean library would assist, therefore I need some exporting catalog or clean up advice. I already have a pretty odd LR setup with how I manage my HDDs and stuff, 80% of my library doesn't work anyway because the original image file is no longer there (moved to another hdd). My library says I have around 3427 images (that's what it says on my most recent import, a transparent '3427' kinda behind the thumbnail). I do use the Library feature, but only for a few sessions at a time. Once my internal SSD's get to full I migrate the RAWs and Exports to by backup Quaddock (holds multiple HDD's and is not left on all day as it is noisy and drains unnecessary power). Perhaps it will help explain my workflow. It is important I don't want advice in this specific regard, I deliberately work like this to avoid having to constantly have 8TB's worth of HDD's whirring away for 90% of the time unnecessarily, I enjoy the low noise performance of my Skull Canyon NUC (which has an SD Card slot ). Take photos on camera (writes to two cards simultaneously). Eject one SD Card from camera, put in the NUC Use Faststone Image Viewer to browse the RAW files quickly, tagging the keepers, I find this far far more fluid than importing a massive volume of files in LR and dealing with the cull at that point Once I have tagged my keepers I use a feature in Faststone that moves those Files/Images to a new location (ie from the SD card to a Folder on the C:) Eject SD Card from the NUC, put back in camera Using Faststone Image viewer again, fire up the first image I want to work on in LR, I simply click 'E' and it opens the file in LR (prompts the Import). I import, edit and Export the image However, the C: is only a 250gb SSD, therefore around about every week to fortnight I need to Move both the RAW files and the Exports to my HDDs, to give me back 'working space' on the SSD. This however is much more preferable to me as it means I only have to toggle the HDD's once a week/fortnight for a few minutes. Bypassing the SDD and instead use the larger HDD from the outset not a viable option to me, it means I would have to toggle on my external HDD's daily, it completely negates the idea and premise against the purchase of the low powered/quiet NUC in the first place. So that's what I'm left with, a LR library of hundreds of images, of which I still have all the files but the library is not able to find the files anymore as they've been moved. I am hesitant to delete or wipe the library because it could be one day I want to go back to an edit rather than start from scratch again, I figure there must be a way to tell LR to also check 'here' (and make it point to my HDD where the RAW file will now be), and then proceed with the edit, or failing that manually find the image on the HDD and drag it back to it's original location on the SSD so LR can 'see it' again. Truth be told I have not had to do either of those two things yet, however I like to be safe rather than sorry. I mustn't be the only user using LR like this. People whom use it on laptops or tablets with limited internal SSD space, they must also have 'broken' libraries? So two things; 1) A library of 2000+ is silly anyway, so many images, I can't find what I'm looking for easily, and I get a sluggish 'searching' experience 2) I'm hoping that clearing the library, or at least canning a certain amount to leaving the last 200 images or so still there will lead to a quicker navigation and less sluggish LR experience. I'm sure if my PC had proper processing power this might not be such an issue. So how do I empty my library in such a way that should I want to work on an old image I can 'import' my old library (catalog?) and then either point it to where the file now exists or manually put the file back to the SSD? TIA!
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‎Feb 11, 2018
09:14 PM
So you manually copy files to the internal SSD and then import them into LR using the Add option in the LR import window? Yup. Or right click a single file > Open With > Lightroom, then once in lightroom check all and import. Please, lemme explain something briefly. I have been using LR and PS for well over a year, once I get to the editing stage I'm pretty competent, I know my ignorance at this particular phase of the program make have you shaking your head in disbelief but there was method to my madness (and may still be). I found (a year or two ago when first experimenting with LR) that the import process was slow, so I went hunting for other software, basically to handle the viewing and culling part of photography. I tried Fastrawviewer and Faststone, staying with Faststone mainly. It seemed to allow me very quickly to view the RAW DNG files and mark/tag the file, what I consider the first phase of culling (i tend to cull a bit more after than). Then once I have culled a good 70% I might then import the remaining 30% into LR (I was slower building at 1:1 previews) and cull some more. I may still opt for this workflow as I can cut down on the build previews significantly with a first swing round of culling. So yeh, even tho I could see Win 10 was offering to import direct from the sd card I never opted for that process, I figured it must copy the files off from the sd card somewhere, otherwise you'd never be able to retrieve your card again without losing the library You use LR to Move the files, and folders they are in if you like, to the external drive. Ah... now we're getting somewhere. So, lets imagine my SSD is getting kinda full, I now want to migrate my initial RAW files along with their finished exported Jpgs to a different drive. All along I have been thinking I manually move the files via windows explorer and LR has a hissy fit not knowing now where to look to find the files so that the library can stay intact. I'll google this process but totally feel free to treat my like an idiot and mansplain this process, I am thick skinned and prefer this way But you don't have to do that. During the import process you can have LR copy them to a folder on the external drive. Alleviating the need to move them later. There is no speed difference having the images on the internal SSD compared to having them on the external drive. Once imported LR never touches the original files. You aren't gaining anything by having images on a SSD. I store all my image files on an internal standard rotating hard drive. With USB 3 the speed of standard rotating external hard drive is about the same as if it was installed inside the computer case and connected directly to a SATA port. I don't have to, but i want to (for reasons explained multiple times before). Ok, so we've established the myth that editing files on the internal SSD is no quicker than an external HDD via USB3, but I still don't want to do that as it involves turning the Quad Dock on from it's awkward location with it's noisy whirring fans on a daily or EOD basis. I of course don't mind toggling these quad docks on once a fortnight or once a week or once a month, but not daily. That's the advantage of a NUC, it's super quiet (and so it should be) if not having to cool multiple HDD's all the time. Ah... now here's where you can help clarify something more for me. You say I'm not gaining anything by having the images on the SSD, but don't I need them there to actually edit? Because if we remove the files after importing are we not giving way to the 'missing file' issue? Does the import do so much more in LR, so that once I have the files imported I could actually rid myself of the RAW files (on the internal SSD) and edit away? I didn't think that was possible...? I understand that the original RAW files imported are not themselves altered (you'd have to do an export DNG/RAW for that? But I always understood that LR would need to be able to access/see the files in order to use Develop mode. You really don't understand how LR is designed to work and how to properly work with LR. Nop, not in this specific aspect (otherwise I wouldn't be posting here hehehe). I'm fairly competent in the develop mode however. I think you should look for some other piece of software for your needs. I won't be doing that, I have the subscription to LR, PS and I use the Adobe Portfolio, I also have a number of Topaz Plugins that I like to use and take advantage from time to time. I find LR a little more user friendly than PS and I know my way around it better than some other software. It's all just from a case of file management and handling of the catalog that I need educated in. I am genuinely thankful for the help and assistance thus far, even tho it may appear I am being awkward that is not my intention, I am just trying to manage my physical work space effectively and rid myself of constant annoyances (even tho these translate to another variety of pest but in my mind is definitely more preferred).
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‎Feb 11, 2018
04:41 PM
JimHess wrote Do you mean if you import to the external hard drive? But yes, as soon as you import to the external hard drive that folder on the external hard drive will be added to the library. I suppose it would add exports as well as long as you are adding them to your catalog. That's something I usually don't do. Bit confused here, typically you import from not to? I'm meaning I will only ever import from the internal ssd (ideally), I will also export to the same internal ssd. Yet when I have moved the files to another HDD, how can I get LR to keep track of that 'move' (without having to clear the library and re add manually all over again). I think much of the confusion here stems from the part that LR does not automatically/watch and import files from a directory, you have to manually do it. You can't tell it to watch 'x' folder and if it fills up with files add them to the library. And if the current library has files missing, then remove them etc. Lots of other software, file sharing/streaming software for example might ask for directories where they 'watch' and any content added ore remove from that is reflected in the programs library. I'm kinda hoping LR would be like this, it notices the files are no longer on C: but is keeping an eye on F: and can see the same filenames etc so they still are accessible (of course provided the external hdd is turned on). The computer i have has a direct SD card reader, I would like to input the card from the camera into the SD Card on the NUC, set it to 'automatically import' when I do that, or copy the contents from the sd card over to the internal ssd, get LR to import the files from there, do the cull, do the edit, do the export (same drive), and have them sitting there for awhile before transferring (move not copy) the files off the ssd to an external. I want to do this as I edit and photograph often, but I do not want the whirr and noise and hassle of turning on additional computing equipment, if I wanted fan noise all day I would just stay with a desktop tower and have the hdd's housed inside. I think I'm just going to have to do some testing with LR...
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‎Feb 09, 2018
02:06 PM
JimHess wrote dunker56 wrote JimHess wrote I'll only make one comment about importing your images directly to the external hard drive. You won't notice any difference in performance if you do that. The catalog should be on a hard drive that performs well and has plenty of room. Your images can be distributed across several external hard drives, and that won't impact performance at all. Ok, still won't transfer the files direct to the HDD everything due to point 2) that I brought up, but nice to know that you think there isn't any difference in my machine specs and using the internal SSD to do stuff like build previews vs USB>HDD. How do I go about telling LR to 'watch' another location/directory then? Or doesn't it quite work like that? I'm a little confused over the whole Library/catalog. If I'm importing pics from the directories mentioned above, and exporting them also (both of which are the internal SSD), once they're moved to another HDD, how does LR 'find them'? What do you mean tell Lightroom to watch another location? All you have to do is choose that external hard drive as the destination and it will show up in your library module. You just choose that folder on the external hard drive like you would any other folder. It's possible to have your images spread across multiple hard drives Lightroom doesn't care where the images are located. If you want to put the folders on the external hard drive before you import them, that works too. Ah ok, so if I have this right, initially all my exports are to my internal SSD, if I export even just ONE picture to the External HDD, then LR will consider that a directory and add any files in that location to its library?
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‎Feb 09, 2018
02:04 PM
https://forums.adobe.com/people/Conrad+C wrote There are a couple of places where your conclusions are not necessarily related to some observations you've made: dunker56 wrote 1) First thing is the import, and then loupe mode and start the culling. I've watched a few youtube tutorials on this, what I'm finding is the process when marking/tagging a file (x or p) is slow and laggy unless I build previews. That 1:1 preview building takes quite a lot of time… Many YouTube tutorials on this subject became outdated when Lightroom Classic came out in October. It is true that you used to have to build 1:1 previews before you could cull quickly, and no one liked that delay. But in Lightroom Classic, you can now import with the Build Previews option set to "Embedded & Sidecar". With that setting, Lightroom will actually use the previews that were embedded into the raw files by the camera. These are the same previews that Faststone, Photo Mechanic, and others use, so when you use Embedded & Sidecar previews in Lightroom, culling is reasonably fast in Lightroom. The only reason Lightroom didn't use those embedded previews earlier is because they don't match what the Lightroom raw engine would render. But if you're just culling, the exact appearance doesn't matter, so using embedded previews becomes acceptable. If you start editing an image, Lightroom replaces the embedded preview with its own, so that you can accurately see your edits. dunker56 wrote 2) What i've noticed is the larger the catalog the longer times to load LR and performance in general. LR from my experience works better if restarted after an hour or so, and where possible deleting files from the library and keeping the library picture count down. According to Adobe and many others, catalog size doesn't affect performance. But what you might actually be seeing is a problem Lightroom has had, specifically in Windows, where it gets slower over time during the same session and would have to be restarted. This specific slowdown is something Adobe has been working on for an upcoming release. In other words, what you're seeing is probably true, but the actual cause may be different than what you've concluded. There is no need to keep the library picture count down. I'm approaching 100,000 files in my catalog, and there are many Lightroom users who have catalogs containing several times more images than I have. Excellent! This sounds like what I am looking for, will look into that and yes no doubt outdated info. And your observations about LR being slower once the catalog is binned vs restarts could also be true, tho I am sure the increase in speed and efficiency was felt immediately after an empty before a restart, but this was awhile ago now (different pc, different specs).
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‎Feb 09, 2018
01:57 PM
dj_paige wrote Ok so first off I won't be adding the files from the camera straight onto the external disks, for two reasons; 1) Speed. I'm no techy but I am imagining having the raw files on the internal ssd (960 evo NVMe 250gb M2) will be a faster and smoother editing process than through USB 3 to HDDs. I could of course be completely wrong, that in reality there is no efficiency by having the files on the same disk as LR, as I said I'm no techy, I'm basing this on perhaps 'old days' mentality and I am not wholly up to date with todays tech. There is no noticeable speed difference. There is no efficiency in having the files on the same disk, other than a trivial amount that you will never notice. I want the Dock to be in RAID and then once a week or fortnight it's turned on and stuff migrated off the internal SSD (to create space once again) and onto that. Unnecessary extra work, plus possibility of making errors. Put the photos right on the external HD when they come out of the camera, make your life simple. what I'm finding is the process when marking/tagging a file (x or p) is slow and laggy unless I build previews Yes, of course, this is by design. Somewhere along the way, if you want to see the photo in loupe mode, the computer has to do some work to render the photo the proper size and with the proper details. You can generate the 1:1 previews on import, and then import takes longer; or you can generate the 1:1 previews on the fly, as your are doing, and then the culling process takes longer. It's your choice, but you can't avoid having the computer do the work to allow you to see the photo in loupe mode properly. What i've noticed is the larger the catalog the longer times to load LR and performance in general. LR from my experience works better if restarted after an hour or so, and where possible deleting files from the library and keeping the library picture count down. There are many causes of slowness. Catalog size is not one of them (exception: making backups). Your entire discussion seems to be fighting against the way Lightroom is designed to work. If you really don't like the way Lightroom is designed to work, then you need to use other software, like Bridge, for example. If you are going to use Lightroom, don't fight it, find a workflow (as we have advised) that works with Lightroom's features instead of against it. I appreciate your time to reply. I have however stipulated that I won't do this, I understand I am being somewhat difficult, you are not obliged to help me any further if it pains you. However I will say this; Even if I had a 500gb or 1tb internal SSD, you eventually run into this problem media needs to be moved off to create more room, but you still want the program to find the moved media. That's all I'm really asking for at this time, how to do this with LR. Its the reason I opted for a smaller SSD than paying twice or four times for a 500gb or 1tb SSD, I can work with a 100gb 'buffer' of space on this internal SSD, when it gets close to that, migrate the media away. This way I am not subjected to constant whirring of fans on a daily basis, nor reaching to switch the HDD on or off constantly. I guess Faststone is just using jpg previews which is why its so quick to fire up the pics and let me have a quick look around during the culling process. Is it perhaps (for my purposes) overkill to be building 1:1 previews at this time? I noticed in the menu there is 'Standard-Sized' and 'Smart' previews, are these quicker and give a general idea of the shot taken? Well, it's been awhile since I removed say 700 shots from the catalog, it definitely made loading times and the whole LR experience smoother and quicker once emptying that library. I guess the experience of this process will be user dependent, the specs of the machine and what not, it certainly wasn't imagined. I don't think I'm fighting against Lightroom's 'design', a few people here have hinted that LR can 'point' to many different places for its catalog, no one seems to be actually holding my hand tightly enough to guide me through this process. Let's pretend I have a 500 pictures in the library, all of them consist of being edited and adjusted (raw files), they are located; C:\Users\xxxx\Pictures\Pentax In. Each of those RAW files has been exported as a Jpg, those files exist here; C:\Users\xxxx\Pictures\Pentax Out. It's clear out time. I move (not copy) both of those directories to my external hdd. Now i know when I boot LR up, the pictures might look like they are there in the library, but as soon as I go to edit a file it'll say something like 'file missing'. It is going to be very seldom I ever actually need to revisit these files again, but on the off chance that I do I would like LR to be able to see them (of course realising that this means I need to toggle on the Quad Dock so that it can find them again). How and is this possible? That's now the crux of my post.
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‎Feb 09, 2018
01:38 PM
JimHess wrote I'll only make one comment about importing your images directly to the external hard drive. You won't notice any difference in performance if you do that. The catalog should be on a hard drive that performs well and has plenty of room. Your images can be distributed across several external hard drives, and that won't impact performance at all. Ok, still won't transfer the files direct to the HDD everything due to point 2) that I brought up, but nice to know that you think there isn't any difference in my machine specs and using the internal SSD to do stuff like build previews vs USB>HDD. How do I go about telling LR to 'watch' another location/directory then? Or doesn't it quite work like that? I'm a little confused over the whole Library/catalog. If I'm importing pics from the directories mentioned above, and exporting them also (both of which are the internal SSD), once they're moved to another HDD, how does LR 'find them'?
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