P: Keyword options no longer available in LR4

I've jumped head first into the same problem with people's full name as keyword, and exporting a synonym with only their first name. Among other issues.

Have anyone thought of adding the chekboxes _after_ the input fields? Something like this:

Keyword name: [__________________] [x] Don't export
Synonyms: [__________________] [x] Don't export

[x] Export containing keywords

The "Export containing keywords" would only apply if either keyword or synonyms are exported.

Whatever the outcome is, I would really appreciate a solution that re-enables the keywords behaviour from all previous versions of Lightroom into Lightroom 4.

I have had a second look at the output from Lightroom in various settings, and have noticed a very interesting issue. It appears that the setting for whether or not to include the exported file in the LR catalog is the most important influence on how keywords are written.

In LR3.6, the export settings for the individual keywords are obeyed consistently in all situations except one:
"Add to this catalog" is turned on
"Write KWs as LR hierarchy" is turned off
In this situation, the full compliment of hierarchical keywords is written to the file regardless of reservations specified for the individual keywords.

In all other combinations of catalog/KW options, clever use of the parameters as described in this thread can tailor exactly which keywords are exported.

Synonyms are, in all cases, written to both and in a flat structure, as well as to the legacy IPTC-IMM section. It is only synonyms marked with "include on export" that propagate.

In LR4, the main difference lies in what propagates to the exported file in the above mentioned situation.

If a high-level keyword is marked as "do not export", the underlying terms are not included in the hierarchical list in the tag. However, the underlying terms still propagate as a non-hierarchical keyword to the tag, the section, and to IPTC-IMM, which explains why people did not notice the change from LR3.6 until the tick boxes were changed in the production version.

Synonyms are also omitted from the block, but do propagate to and to the IPTC-IMM section. Just as for v3.6, it's only the synonyms indicated for export that are included.

LR4, in my opinion, made a step forward with the handling of synonyms. It's no point in listing them non-hierarchically in the block when the other two does the job. If synonyms were to be included here, I would like to see them associated with it's correct place in the hierarchy, but that would be a hard nut to crack I guess.

What remains an issue is the hierarchy in the exported tag as described before in this thread, though.

Could it be a solution to replace keywords marked "do not export" with a UID or some other form of machine-readable token? This would of course wreak havoc for people who wants to look at the exported keyword hierarchy with other software, but the information would remain private. In addition, it would be possible for LR to reconstruct the entire keyword hierarchy from file as long as the catalog is the same.

And maybe LR could suppress assimilation of all the keywords duplicated in the IPTC-IMM and blocks if the tag is populated with a hierarchy? This would be also of great help to us who try to keep our controlled vocabularies from flooding with orphaned keywords. 🙂

Thanks. Yeah. I'm hopeful a win/win solution can be found, too. John isn't an Adobe employee, but is very active in the Lightroom comment, so he's aware of why the change was made - and what he stated was correct.

Ben's also in SJ, but a fair amount of the team is here in Minnesota where I work.

Hi Jeffrey,

Thank you for your update. I appreciate your supplying input. Yes, I saw Ben's posting, but there were many responses ("rebuttals" if you will) contradicting - or at least arguing against - the position he stated and we did not get an Adobe responses after that.

I was not aware that John Beardsworth was an Adobe representivite as his posting did not indicate an Adobe affiliation as yours and Ben's did and he spoke of Adobe in the 3rd person ("I feel that Adobe....."). Thank you for clearing that up.

I am pleased that Adobe is continuing to look for a solution to this obviously sensitive and important topic and am optimistic that a win/win solution can be found. Perhaps even one of those suggested in this thread like making the choice of behaviour a catalog preference, or providing a warning pop-up. Both of which would mitigate the privacy concern yet retain the required functionality for those who choose to change the preference one case or override the warning in the other.

Please keep us posted on progress and feel free to contact me if you desire further input. I live not too far from Adobe HQ in San Jose so could even come in for a meeting on this subject if desired. You can contact me privatly through my web site www.danhartfordphoto.com

Thanks -- Dan (Ex-Adobe employee)

Hi Dan,

The team hasn't been silent on the subject. Ben's explained why the change was made and John Beardsworth has also provided some explanation.

Yes. The team is looking to see if both the old behavior and the new behavior can be supported - and we appreciate folks who have chimed in with how they used the old behavior, and suggestions to enable both workflows/concerns. The team is currently readying some other higher priority fixes so I can't give out any ETAs or venture to guess any outcomes at this point.

Terry D --

Yes, There are several take away's in LR4 that this thread is complaining about. Unfortunatly the only response we've gotten from Adobe was around March 21 from Benjamine Warde who declared this as "Not a Problem" along with an explaination that so far most people have considered as unacceptable.

Since then Adobe has been silent on the subject. I don't know if they're just ignoring a growing number of angry customers, are busy with other things and will get to us shortly, or are debating the issue internally.

Benjamine Warde: ARE YOU LISTENING?

Dan

Can't export synonym without keyword tag. This works in LR 3 but not in LR 4.

I just noticed this issue as well, and I'll be rolling back to LR3 until it's addressed somehow.

For tagging people, all of my keywords are set up as the full name of the person in the photo, but I obviously don't want to export that. I have just first names in the synonym list, and I'd like those to export, but that no longer works in LR4.

I think having a catalog setting, or some way to explicitly enable that functionality, would be a great way to protect people's privacy as the default behavior without completely breaking existing workflows.

@ John

More open SDK for keyword plugins is a very good idea John!

I made a proposal for a small change to the SDK that would allow plugin authors to provide keywording functionality for those users of large hiearchies whose needs aren't being met by LR:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...