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P: Perspective correction from Camera metadata not supported for Leica Q3

Forum|Forum|2 years ago
September 2, 2023
19 replies
2943 views

When perspective correction is selected in camera for the Leica Q3 (I have it set to On/Off on the Q3's option button #2), this does not appear to activate in LR Classic when converting the DNG, using the camera's image metadata. Only manual perspective correction appears to be available, which makes the camera feature rather pointless. I am using LR Classic (V 13.0.1) on an M2 MacBook Air with 16GB RAM and with Sonoma 14.0 Operating System. Profile corrections does not list the Leica Q3 but only the M, R and S models.

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johnrellis

Legend

"Offer to sell your routine to Leica, so that they can pass it back to Adobe."

😆 No need to sell it, the important details are visible to all. But you could link to this thread in teh Leica forums.

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Wilson LaidlawAuthor

Known Participant

Offer to sell your routine to Leica, so that they can pass it back to Adobe.

johnrellis

Legend

Good to share this information here, since there have been others asking too. I'm not sure what the technical hang-up is, since I wrote the script that translates Leica correction metadata to LR corrections in about 45 mintues.

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srdjanmitrovic

Participating Frequently

Per Leica's email from August 7th, Leica engineers were working with Adobe engineers on fixing it. Note that Adobe supports LPC for all other Leica cameras that have it. Leica expected that LrC 13.0 would contain the fix (per email from October 12).

johnrellis

Legend

@Wilson Laidlaw, sounds like Leica needs to be informed of this authoritative information from Rikk Flohr.

Rikk Flohr_Photography

Community Manager

Moving to feature requests as this is a not-yet-supported feature for this camera.

Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org

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richardplondon

Community Expert

Can you please clarify more exactly - by "perspective correction" do you mean Perspective Control, or Lens Correction? Your question states "profile corrections does not list the Leica Q3" - which seems to suggest the latter.

As I understand it - not a Leica user, so please take with a pinch of salt - Perspective Control will have been already baked into a camera JPG. So far as a camera raw (camera DNG included), the camera has not transformed the Raw data or - not sure - may not even have encoded in any particular "recipe" for transforming perspective. Some proprietary metadata likely records that Perspective Control had been asked for.

LrC either then pays attention to that request or doesn't - it seems support varies by model.

AFAICT LrC would deliver any 'perspective controlled' result, if it was going to do so, by turning on its own Upright auto transform. I doubt Adobe has reverse engineered the exact proprietary means of perspective correction of each camera model. Many cameras don't offer such a feature themselves anyway.

Upright can be turned on/off manually inside LrC. Or in processing defaults, a preset, etc.If you leave Perspective Control off in-camera then both camera Raws and camera JPGs will arrive in LrC without such correction baked in. You can then set or change this correction for yourself nondestructively.

In-camera perspective adjustment and LrC's Upright may conceivably vary depending on what analysis each one makes of the photo. The nice part about invoking this correction via Adobe adjustments, rather than obeying some fixed "recipe" coming from the camera, is that you can intervene when the default auto solution doesn't quite give what you want.

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Wilson LaidlawAuthor

Known Participant

Basically I am not an LR user, having used C1 for the last 20 years but as Phase One advised me that they do not currently recognise Perspective Correction when turned on in camera nor do they recognise when preselecting in camera lens focal length cropping, I turned to LR, where Leica claimed they had been working with Adobe to get this data which is included with the metadata of the image, applied to the image when it was opened in LR develop module. It appears neither is being applied. The in camera perspective correction supposedly applies the keystone correction which appears as an outline in the viewfinder when taking the image. As I have no idea how Leica intended or intends this to work, as no further information has been supplied by Leica, I have tried searching through the various functions in LR to see if any of them applied a keystone correction to a pre-set level. It appears none of them do, although (as in C1) I can apply keystone correction manually. As the auto correction function does not appear to be present, I cannot comment on where if ever, it will appear. The same applies to the cropping function.

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richardplondon

Community Expert

The only focal length cropping I have experience of, is when a crop format lens is mounted on a full frame body. That's more accurately a sensor coverage issue, not a focal length issue. The camera can be set either to pass on the entire full frame image, or the designed coverage of the crop lens. I think LrC will usually respect this. So far as "digital zoom", if that is what you are referring to, that is a sensor coverage not a focal length question also. I don't think "digital zoom" has ever affected Raw data in my personal experience - which is not the widest, I am the first to admit.

Inside LrC as you've discovered there are manual transforms including for keystoning, as well as manual lens correction options. Those apply values that are repeatable onto other images. The generic distortion and vignetting would be fallbacks in the event that proper profile based lens aberration correction was not available. The transforms work with a "constrain crop" checkbox which if unchecked, allows any white corner margins to come into view as the transform alters the current main crop. Manual treansforms could be fallbacks if Guided and Upright were not found suitable. But Upright, falling back to Guided in difficult cases, are far the more productive and predictable options in my experience compared with the manual sliders.

Upright mode offers various kinds of intended correction . These work off the appearance of the photo only. Which option you choose here might be thought of as a "preset level" of intervention - though I am unsure what you precisely mean by that form of words.

Auto is IMO excellent at getting to the best-compromise result, on balance, in one go. It is flexible not prescriptive. So if nearly parallel things will likely become fully so; but if quite convergent, that may be assumed to be intended or else that it would be too big a correction to still remain natural looking. You can instead choose a more specific Upright mode, which concentrates more single-mindedly on Level / Vertical / Full. Full tries much harder to force both what it analyses as horizontals, and verticals, orthogonal. That can often turn out to need very obvious, extreme warping to achieve. But useful for some special purposes.

And Guided upright gives you close interactive control per image.

So far as transferring onto other images, EITHER you can impose a repeat of the same Upright mode selection (with a specific transform to be analysed afresh for each target image) OR an Upright or Guided solution (repeating the same specific transform from the source image).

johnrellis

Legend

There was a previous post about this recently:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/leica-q3-auto-perspective-correction/td-p/14056957

though the person never responded to my request:

"Upload a sample DNG taken with perspective correction to Dropbox, Google Drive, or similar, and post the sharing link here. I can put it under the microscope to determine authoritatively if it contains the correct metadata specifying the perspective correction (i.e. whether the problem is with LR or the camera)."

Adobe is much more likely to respond to a bug report that includes a sample photo and an analysis showing the issue is with LR and not the camera.

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Wilson LaidlawAuthor

Known Participant

Here is a Leica Q3 DNG with perspective control on https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6jaj975eod346w1wmjxwj/L1000133.DNG?rlkey=wc681x7ccdy8bn29n1icn500s&dl=0

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johnnyw

Participant

LRc (and LR) doesn't seem to be interpreting the auto perspective correction metadata in the Leica Q3.

With the Leica M11 you can automatically apply the perspective correction using "Guided" in the Transform panel, but this isn't working for the Q3.

Not sure if this is a bug or a feature request.

johnrellis

Legend

I found one thread with several people complaining they weren't able to get LR to recognize perspective corrections supposedly added by the Q3 to the DNG.

Upload a sample DNG taken with perspective correction to Dropbox, Google Drive, or similar, and post the sharing link here. I can put it under the microscope to determine authoritatively if it contains the correct metadata specifying the perspective correction (i.e. whether the problem is with LR or the camera).

johnrellis

Legend

Also, I couldn't find any downloaded Q3 sample DNGs that were advertised as taken with perspective correction enabled.

At the Leica web site, I did find several downloadable sample Q3 DNGs that clearly had perspective corrections applied to them. However, when I downloaded the DNGs, their metadata indicated they been edited in LR 12.3 and had Transform > Auto applied! Transform > Guided had not been added automatically by the camera. Suspicious.

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