Inspiring

Answered

Help! New paragraph spacing system is causing problems

Forum|Forum|7 years ago
December 12, 2018
6 replies
6145 views

Adobe's new "space between paragraphs using same style" feature is really messing up my document. I would think it was a good idea, if they hadn't apparently destroyed the old paragraph spacing system in order to add it. I just tried to put some space after a paragraph that does not have a style applied to it, using the Paragraph palette window, and nothing happened. (I do not have the text aligned to a grid, or any interfering text wraps, or any character styles applied.) I now can't add any space after a paragraph unless I build a new style, and put amounts for both "space after" and "space between paragraphs"? I don't want to have to build a paragraph style every single time I want to add some space after a line; what a waste of time. Is there some preference I can adjust?? I can't see why they would have the "space after" option in the Paragraph window if it doesn't do anything, but how do I get it to work now? This issue totally screwed up my day today. I looked to see if Adobe had written out how best to use this new system, but found nothing.

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Correct answer barbara_a7746676

While it is a confusing feature, in my opinion it is actually one of the best enhancements to InDesign, mainly useful for numbered and bulleted lists.

For example, if you have a bulleted list paragraph style with a space before setting of p6 and a space after setting of p10, and you change Space between paragraphs to zero, the space before affects only the first paragraph in the list and the space after affects only the last paragraph in the list.

It's as if all the paragraphs in the list, which all have the same paragraph style applied to them, have been grouped together and treated as if they were a single paragraph.

List with zero space between paragraphs:

In previous InDesign versions, this would have required 3 paragraph styles for the list paragraphs, now it only requires one.

The same list set to Ignore:

I wish that Adobe had implemented this feature in InDesign as elegantly as it was implemented in Adobe FrameMaker. But that does not take away from its usefulness.

K

Kim Wilks

Participant

Forcing users to create a "style" to do a simple "space before" and "space after" is absolutely ridiculous! I rarely use "styles" in InDesign unless I'm creating a multipage documents with many varieties of styles. ADOBE DECIDED TO FIX SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT BROKEN! Arbitrary changes like this make me wish I could use design software that doesn't change commands that we have used for 20 years for NO APPRENT REASON.

James Gifford—NitroPress

Legend

Well... this styling structure for spacing has been integral to InDesign since it was first released, and the model of using styles for every document and layout element as a good practice is older than that.

Not sure why you see it as a change, nor how you've used ID effectively for 20 minutes much less 20 years without knowing/accepting both points nor why you opened a zombie thread to complain about it. But I guess we all have our... approach.

Have you heard about a similar product called "Word"? It's basically designed around a complete lack of styles and organized layout and might be the ideal alternative for you.

K

Kim Wilks

Participant

Hmmmm, I was able to use "space before" and "space after" on my toolbar just a few days ago. The commands are still on the toolbar but quit working after my most recent update today. I responded in this "zombie" thread because the problem just occurred today. I use this app every day as a graphic designer, but you clearly know much more than me. So my apologies for upsetting you with my ignorance.

R

Russell.Lord

Participant

Agreed. Space after should not be disabled. If it is, the dialog should be made null.
Too many ways to do the same thing.
Ultimately, the previous way was predictable and allowed me to achieve every possible or necessary. The new way has the same range of layout results, but with more fussing and dead end UI pathways.

James Gifford—NitroPress

Legend

Well, this is a fairly zombie thread (4-5 years old) and the feature is no longer exactly new.

All imagined problems are also completely avoidable by simply never setting Space Between to anything but 'Ignore.'

I concur with the experts of the near past, though: it's an extremely flexible way to manage spacing for all sorts of in-text lists. Unfortunately, it doesn't export to EPUB, so the three-style method is still needed for that. Which is, IMVHO, a real problem.

R

RaCreate

Known Participant

I'm finding it an absolute pain in the A*.

I loved paragraph before and after and it worked just beautifully for me. Especially when setting typography initially, pre-paragraph styles.

I try using 'ignore' and I try setting it, and I try sticking to my usual 'before' and 'after'...

it isn't working as one would expect. It's fine IF I have paragraph settings defined, but I don't when I'm initially designing...

Is there any way to TURN that OFF? I'd prefer to work the way I have.

Ta

Ra

L

Laubender

Community Expert

Hi RaCreate ,

it should be turned off (Ignore) by default. At least that's with my InDesign.

Deselect everything and see if it's turned on in the Paragraph Panel. And if it's turned on, turn it off.

Also check this when no document is open.

Regards,
Uwe

R

RaCreate

Known Participant

Hi ya.

Ignore doesn't allow it to act as it used to though. As in, it doesn't my set space before and space after measures (after a HARD RETURN). ONLY works when I have a paragraph style set.

That's why it's 'doing my head in'.

So, ignore works the same way as it used to for you?

Barb Binder

Community Expert

It would be helpful if InDesign made it easier to find explanations of these changes. I've searched the site, and found no tutorial or anything on this new feature. It's probably up there somewhere, but searching for the name of the feature doesn't bring it up.

ACP Steve Werner briefly discusses this and the other new 2019 features here (free): https://indesignsecrets.com/whats-new-with-indesign-cc-2019.php
ACP Chad Chelius goes into detail on the new spacing command here in issue 116 of InDesign Magazine (purchase): https://indesignsecrets.com/issues/issue-116-excel-tips
ACP Anne-Marie Concepción reviews all the new features here (purchase, but check your local library—many offer these videos for free to their communities): InDesign CC 2019 New Features

~Barb

~Barb at Rocky Mountain Training

barbara_a7746676

Correct answer

Community Expert

While it is a confusing feature, in my opinion it is actually one of the best enhancements to InDesign, mainly useful for numbered and bulleted lists.

For example, if you have a bulleted list paragraph style with a space before setting of p6 and a space after setting of p10, and you change Space between paragraphs to zero, the space before affects only the first paragraph in the list and the space after affects only the last paragraph in the list.

It's as if all the paragraphs in the list, which all have the same paragraph style applied to them, have been grouped together and treated as if they were a single paragraph.

List with zero space between paragraphs:

In previous InDesign versions, this would have required 3 paragraph styles for the list paragraphs, now it only requires one.

The same list set to Ignore:

I wish that Adobe had implemented this feature in InDesign as elegantly as it was implemented in Adobe FrameMaker. But that does not take away from its usefulness.

Jongware

Community Expert

The default value for Space Between Same Paragraphs is "Ignore". Check if you did not change that to "0mm" (or your local equivalent measurement unit). If it is set to "0", the feature appears to do exactly what it should.

V

VermiciousKnidAuthor

Inspiring

Thanks--I didn't understand the new symbol for the "space between" area, so I didn't see it. (I didn't actually put anything in there, so I'm not sure how the 0 got in there, but it wasn't set to "ignore.")

It would be helpful if InDesign made it easier to find explanations of these changes. I've searched the site, and found no tutorial or anything on this new feature. It's probably up there somewhere, but searching for the name of the feature doesn't bring it up.

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