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_Peter_Mars_
Participating Frequently
October 31, 2007
Question

Photoshop CS3 color management "Save for Web" problem

  • October 31, 2007
  • 680 replies
  • 62092 views
This problem is getting the best of me.......

After spending 3 full days researching this problem, I am no closer to finding an answer than when I started. I still cannot produce a usable image through the "Save for Web" feature of Photoshop CS3. I have read web page after web page of "Tips, Tricks and Recommendations" from dozens of experts, some from this forum, and still I have no solution... I am exhausted and frustrated to say the least. Here's the simple facts that I know at this point.

I have a web design project that was started in PS CS1. All artwork was created in photoshop and exported to JPG format by using "Save for Web". Every image displays correctly in these browsers (Safari, Camino, FireFox and even Internet Explorer on a PC).

I have recently upgraded to PS CS3 and now cannot get any newly JPG'd image to display correctly. My original settings in CS1 were of no concern to me at the time, because it always just worked, and so I do not know what they were. I have opened a few of my previous images in CS3 and found that sRGB-2.1 displays them more or less accurately. I am using sRGB 2.1 working space. Upon openning these previous image files, I get the "Missing Profile" message and of course I select "Leave as is. Do Not color manage". CS3 assumes sRGB-2.1 working space, opens the file, and all is well.

The problem is when I go to "Save for Web", the saturation goes up, and the colors change. The opposite of what most people are reporting. Here's another important point... new artwork created in CS3 does exactly the same thing, so it's not because of the older CS1 files.

I have tried every combination of "uncompensated color", "Convert to sRGB", "ICC Profile", etc. while saving. I have Converted to sRGB before saving, and my monitor is calibrated correctly.
I have tried setting the "Save for Web" page on 2-up and the "original" on the left is already color shifted before I even hit the "Save" button. Of course, the "Optimized" image on the right looks perfect because I am cheating by selecting the "Use Document Color Profile" item. Why do they even have this feature if doesn't work, or misleads you?

Does anyone have any ideas what could be happening here? Why is this all so screwed up?
CS1 worked fine out of the box.

Final note: I do have an image file I could send along that demonstrates how it is possible to display an image exactly the same in all 4 of the browsers I mentioned with no color differences. It is untagged RGB and somehow it just works.

I am very frustrated with all of this and any suggestions will be appreciated

Thanks,
Pete
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    680 replies

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    Anonymous
    November 28, 2007

    "I'm just 2 days away from sending mine back"

    ...and if you do and get something else and you have the same problem... what will you do then? I would just figure out a workaround for now and buy a new monitor when LCD's are improved to your liking. You can get a different brand and have the same problem. In my view, monitors are the weak link in the whole graphic design process... unless you spend the big bucks... maybe.

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    _Peter_Figen_
    Participating Frequently
    November 28, 2007
    " The only problem i have with the monitor is the SFW issue... no banding, no ghosting, none of that stuff. It just cannot handle Photoshop saved sRGB files in unmanaged apps., which is amazing to me. "

    Why is this amazing? It's EXACTLY how is should be. You've got an untagged image that is really sRGB and you're viewing as if it was something different entirely. The ONLY thing that is going to fix this in the future is: 1. Everyone decides on a different internet color standard, or 2. Every image has an embedded profile and all browsers and other non color managed apps become color managed and automatically recognize the embedded profiles. In the meantime, if this bothers you, and it apparently does, make sure that whatever screen you buy is close to sRGB gamut.
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    _Peter_Mars_Author
    Participating Frequently
    November 28, 2007
    >seems like a recipe for disaster and a huge PITA

    Just wondered what they were up to with this approach. I love tips and tricks!

    I can say that with my 2407wfp-HC, I have adjusted the OSD RGB menu to 80-85-90 and set brightness at 25, contrast at 85 and then calibrated... the color seems absolutely natural when photo editing... it's much better than on our white 2005 20" iMac (also calibrated)

    The only problem i have with the monitor is the SFW issue... no banding, no ghosting, none of that stuff. It just cannot handle Photoshop saved sRGB files in unmanaged apps., which is amazing to me.

    The future is coming and I believe it's going to be displayed on the new wide-gamut monitors and I'm just 2 days away from sending mine back. I hope I am doing the right thing. I'm tired of all the comments about buying a cheap, crappy monitor. I just don't see any other solution to this SFW problem.
    A
    Anonymous
    November 28, 2007
    [OT] Tim... Kerrville, Texas. My wife had to fly there a few times last year for business meetings. I'll be in Fredricksburg on March 13th at the Nimitz museum for a plaque dedication. Nice little town...
    A
    Anonymous
    November 28, 2007
    That dpreview thread seems like a recipe for disaster and a huge PITA.

    Why don't they just adjust the hue and saturation on the front panel eyeballing an sRGB color target to get close to the intended look and recalibrate? These displays have a myriad of OSD options. They ought to use them.

    Of course it looks oversaturated on AdobeRGB gamut LCD's, but how many LCD's are there on the web that are even close to that calibrated or not?
    A
    Anonymous
    November 28, 2007
    The first Dell 2407WFP monitors that came out had a banding problem. The one that I bought is the second generation monitor and has no banding.

    It looks like the 2007WFP has/had a banding problem but it looks like Dell has fixed it:

    http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/26/dell-fesses-up-to-2007wfp-banding-problems/

    Did someone say in an earlier post that their Dell 2407WFP was calibrated so that what you see on the monitor (CMYK Image) matched the the printed proof? I would never give up that monitor...
    A
    Anonymous
    November 28, 2007
    Raven... I see a slight saturation boost when going to SFW, with the sRGB checked. But I believe "g ballard" said that was normal. What I see in the sfw preview window is what I get in the online browser. If I what my image to look the same as the original PSD, I just bring down the saturation -15 or -20 in H&S before going to sfw. I actually had it almost prefect before I re-calibrated the monitor. I need to go back and re-calibrated again. I used the Spyder2 Pro.
    A
    Anonymous
    November 28, 2007
    I've been researching this panel type stuff for about several months and from what I've gathered there's not much control by the manufacturer either intentionally or by choice to keep the same panel even within the same model.

    They'll introduce a new model with either a PVA, S-IPS or other type and then change it on the next revision with a lowered price. My guess is that they all flood the market with their newer, bigger model trying to satisfy everyone namely office, gamers and imaging types usually in that order of preference. Whatever group complains the most about screen speed in milliseconds as apposed to color accuracey gets the panel of choice on the next revision.

    And of course they don't tell anyone about the change until they start getting returns after long troubleshooting sessions similar to this thread. Pretty stupid and inefficient way of doing business IMO.

    From what I've researched the only way you can tell what panel type you got with the Dell 2007wfp-(don't know about the 2407wfp) is at the end of the serial number on the back if it had an "S" for Samsung it had the S-PVA, the only panel type Samsung uses in their LCD line. Or, if it had an "L" for LG-it had the S-IPS.

    This I found out about a year ago so things may have improved with manufacturers letting customers know what panel type is included. The thing is you'll read customer feedback on the web that the S-PVA panels calibrate just as accurate as the S-IPS panels, but then no one knows how picky they are about color. No display is ever going to be perfect.

    My iMac isn't but then I'm not trying to make sure FedEx purple doesn't look blue when I cut and paste their logo into a page layout program.

    And just remember in advertising you've got about three seconds to grab someone's interest before they throw your carefully crafted brochure in the trash. Do you think they'll give a crap if you didn't nail that FedEx purple exactly.
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    _Peter_Mars_Author
    Participating Frequently
    November 28, 2007
    Would somebody check out this link (at dpreview) to an explanation of the how the 2407wfp-HC produces adobeRGB color space and how to change Windows to use this space.... there is some good info here but I'm sure exactly what it means.

    Thanks

    (first link is first page, containing link to second)
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1004&message=25624499
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1004&message=24998798
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    _Peter_Mars_Author
    Participating Frequently
    November 28, 2007
    >Dell 2407wfp

    Mine is the newer version 2407wfp-HC... so obviously these 2 models do not use the same screen panel, and I should assume that an LCD model with S-IPS panel is the preferred way to go.

    Why would Dell switch to an inferior panel with the newer model? I bought it because I assumed it would be even better than the previous version.

    (edit: perhaps inferior is too strong... Maybe different is a better choice)
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