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_Peter_Mars_
Participating Frequently
October 31, 2007
Question

Photoshop CS3 color management "Save for Web" problem

  • October 31, 2007
  • 680 replies
  • 62137 views
This problem is getting the best of me.......

After spending 3 full days researching this problem, I am no closer to finding an answer than when I started. I still cannot produce a usable image through the "Save for Web" feature of Photoshop CS3. I have read web page after web page of "Tips, Tricks and Recommendations" from dozens of experts, some from this forum, and still I have no solution... I am exhausted and frustrated to say the least. Here's the simple facts that I know at this point.

I have a web design project that was started in PS CS1. All artwork was created in photoshop and exported to JPG format by using "Save for Web". Every image displays correctly in these browsers (Safari, Camino, FireFox and even Internet Explorer on a PC).

I have recently upgraded to PS CS3 and now cannot get any newly JPG'd image to display correctly. My original settings in CS1 were of no concern to me at the time, because it always just worked, and so I do not know what they were. I have opened a few of my previous images in CS3 and found that sRGB-2.1 displays them more or less accurately. I am using sRGB 2.1 working space. Upon openning these previous image files, I get the "Missing Profile" message and of course I select "Leave as is. Do Not color manage". CS3 assumes sRGB-2.1 working space, opens the file, and all is well.

The problem is when I go to "Save for Web", the saturation goes up, and the colors change. The opposite of what most people are reporting. Here's another important point... new artwork created in CS3 does exactly the same thing, so it's not because of the older CS1 files.

I have tried every combination of "uncompensated color", "Convert to sRGB", "ICC Profile", etc. while saving. I have Converted to sRGB before saving, and my monitor is calibrated correctly.
I have tried setting the "Save for Web" page on 2-up and the "original" on the left is already color shifted before I even hit the "Save" button. Of course, the "Optimized" image on the right looks perfect because I am cheating by selecting the "Use Document Color Profile" item. Why do they even have this feature if doesn't work, or misleads you?

Does anyone have any ideas what could be happening here? Why is this all so screwed up?
CS1 worked fine out of the box.

Final note: I do have an image file I could send along that demonstrates how it is possible to display an image exactly the same in all 4 of the browsers I mentioned with no color differences. It is untagged RGB and somehow it just works.

I am very frustrated with all of this and any suggestions will be appreciated

Thanks,
Pete
    This topic has been closed for replies.

    680 replies

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    _Peter_Mars_Author
    Participating Frequently
    November 19, 2007
    Just another fact here.... the color, brightness, contrast, etc on this monitor is awesome. I am a Photographer and I have opened dozens of images in the last 2 weeks and they all look fantastic... no surprises at all. They look just as I would expect. The only problem is saving for the web. SFW causes my images to oversaturate tremendously. I cannot get past the point where I actually hit the "Save" button because the colors are just simply ridiculously over-saturated.

    Again, my previous G4 with Sony 500PS CRT does the same thing, but is barely noticeable because the SONY CRT is incapable of displaying the color saturation shift!

    Every time I get new eyeglasses I am amazed how much more I can see... same thing here!
    _
    _Peter_Mars_Author
    Participating Frequently
    November 19, 2007
    I did exactly what the calibrator software said to do. Basically they give you 2 sections of a circle and ask if you can see all the rings. Then say to adjust accordingly before starting calibration... that's it. Resetting the monitor to factory defaults results in blinding brightness and extreme color. I doubt anyone starts from this point ever!

    To explain further, I am trying to get my monitor closer to normal before starting calibration. This only makes sense as I keep being told that any shift in View>Proof Setup>MonitorRGB is the difference between monitor profile and sRGB. I take that to mean that the ultimate goal is to have a more closely calibrated monitor before calibration, so that there is no color shift when softproofing in this manner. Following the "Book" as is being recited here is not working. I'm trying to be creative and find an answer. My monitor at default settings is also slightly Warm or Red, hence the 80,85,90 settings... things look fairly neutral and my grayscale target is right on (0-255) at 25 Brightness, and 85 Contrast
    L
    Lundberg02
    Inspiring
    November 19, 2007
    RP: <So what of my question....for the third or fourth time: Does it not mean anything at all that my calibration test image looks the same on screen as it does on the hard-copy proof? ><br />No. That color space can't even display the limited sRGB gamut.<br /><br />The Dell settings. How do you know what they mean?<br />And if Peter Mars set them before calibrating, he didn't do what the calibrator software tells you to do.
    A
    Anonymous
    November 18, 2007
    I also still think I have a valid point in here, from my previous post:

    "You've also suggested (I think) to test for a bad profile by choosing sRGB as my monitor profile and then testing in Photoshop. I have done this and, yes, there is no colour change in SFW then. However, the colours are not displaying accurately using sRGB for my monitor profile, so what's the point of that? If any deviation from sRGB in a monitor profile results in this kind of "wrong" behaviour in Photoshop, that what's the point of calibration?"

    Again to reiterate: The difference I see taking an sRGB image into SFW is exactly the same as the difference between sRGB and my calibrated monitor profile.
    A
    Anonymous
    November 18, 2007
    g ballard:

    "I think your best option is to call ColorVision, stick to my one test, and let them explain why it is not working (don't even mention your other theories, because the one test nails your problem)."

    What is the "one test" you were referring to? The one that nails my problem.

    (Was it the one in which I see a colour shift when I view an sRGB image and then chooose "Monitor RGB" as a proofing setup?)
    A
    Anonymous
    November 18, 2007
    Lundberg02...who are you talking to?

    Peter...yep, no shift on the 2.2 gamma image. Maybe the difference between my Spyder calibration and your Huey calibration.

    g ballard...the fresh OEM monitor profile (DELLBlahblahblah) may or may not cause a shift when I use SFW -- not sure, I'm at home now -- but it does not display accurate tones and colours and is therefore unusable by my reckoning. What might be the point of trying that then?

    I will investigate hardware settings. I don't recall the specifics of the hardware settings, but I'll check it out. I do remember it had a "Mac" setting and a "PC" setting which I think is basically "1.8 gamma" and "2.2 gamma" respectively. I did choose the PC setting. Well I'll look into it when I get back in the office.

    So what of my question....for the third or fourth time: Does it not mean anything at all that my calibration test image looks the same on screen as it does on the hard-copy proof?

    Also, any thoughts on one of my other comments?: "The difference I see going into SFW is exactly the same effect as if I take an sRGB tagged image and "Assign" my SpyderNov1 monitor profile. It's as though photoshop is saying "an sRGB tagged image will appear this way on your monitor's color space (which has a wider gamut than sRGB) after the profile is removed". This is the case, as I've seen when viewing my resulting JPG in Safari."

    Numerous tests seem to show that my monitor IS calibrated correctly to 2.2 gamma and 6500 kelvin. I only run into trouble when it comes to SFW, or perhaps RGB in general.

    I will email Colorvision and see what they say.

    I am beginning to believe I will not find any answers unless I pay a specialist to come into the office and see for themselves what is happening. I am only getting half-answers and suggestions to half of my questions here, but I guess I'm getting what I'm paying for.
    L
    Lundberg02
    Inspiring
    November 18, 2007
    Do you even know what those settings mean? And how do they comport with what the calibrator instructions tell you to do?
    _
    _g_ballard_
    Participating Frequently
    November 17, 2007
    may try loading the (fresh) OEM profile for that monitor and running your tests

    also, try finding the hardware RESET in your monitor's button menu and do a hardware reset back to factory defaults

    then make sure monitor hardware is set to 6500 (not 9000, not 5000)

    make sure monitor hardware is set to PC gamma (2.2)

    may also want to run the Apple calibrator on the OEM profile to be sure it is 2.2/6500

    +++++++

    colorvision support has this conversation on a daily basis

    I would guess they can explain WHY -- if I use their puck to calibrate my monitor to 6500/2.2 -- does Photoshop display tagged sRGB correctly, but extremely oversaturate when SoftProofed in Monitor RGB

    a very simple direct question they should have a very simple direct answer
    _
    _Peter_Mars_Author
    Participating Frequently
    November 17, 2007
    Raven - - I get slightly different results on the "roll-over" page you just mentioned.
    When I roll-over the 1.8 gamma (AppleRGB) test image, I get a large boost in saturation.
    When I roll-over the 2.2 gamma (sRGB) test image, I get a lesser but definite increase in saturation.

    Since that demo says "Any JPEG color shift you do see on screen is the difference between your monitor profile and the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color space" my monitor profile must therefore be set higher than 2.2 somehow.

    You got basically no shift on the 2.2 gamma sRGB image?
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Inspiring
    November 17, 2007
    >If the untagged sRGB image is...untagged, why is it still referred to as sRGB?

    Because it was created in the sRGB space, but only the idiot who created the image and then stripped the profile knows it?
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