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Participating Frequently
October 31, 2007
Question

Photoshop CS3 color management "Save for Web" problem

  • October 31, 2007
  • 680 replies
  • 62136 views
This problem is getting the best of me.......

After spending 3 full days researching this problem, I am no closer to finding an answer than when I started. I still cannot produce a usable image through the "Save for Web" feature of Photoshop CS3. I have read web page after web page of "Tips, Tricks and Recommendations" from dozens of experts, some from this forum, and still I have no solution... I am exhausted and frustrated to say the least. Here's the simple facts that I know at this point.

I have a web design project that was started in PS CS1. All artwork was created in photoshop and exported to JPG format by using "Save for Web". Every image displays correctly in these browsers (Safari, Camino, FireFox and even Internet Explorer on a PC).

I have recently upgraded to PS CS3 and now cannot get any newly JPG'd image to display correctly. My original settings in CS1 were of no concern to me at the time, because it always just worked, and so I do not know what they were. I have opened a few of my previous images in CS3 and found that sRGB-2.1 displays them more or less accurately. I am using sRGB 2.1 working space. Upon openning these previous image files, I get the "Missing Profile" message and of course I select "Leave as is. Do Not color manage". CS3 assumes sRGB-2.1 working space, opens the file, and all is well.

The problem is when I go to "Save for Web", the saturation goes up, and the colors change. The opposite of what most people are reporting. Here's another important point... new artwork created in CS3 does exactly the same thing, so it's not because of the older CS1 files.

I have tried every combination of "uncompensated color", "Convert to sRGB", "ICC Profile", etc. while saving. I have Converted to sRGB before saving, and my monitor is calibrated correctly.
I have tried setting the "Save for Web" page on 2-up and the "original" on the left is already color shifted before I even hit the "Save" button. Of course, the "Optimized" image on the right looks perfect because I am cheating by selecting the "Use Document Color Profile" item. Why do they even have this feature if doesn't work, or misleads you?

Does anyone have any ideas what could be happening here? Why is this all so screwed up?
CS1 worked fine out of the box.

Final note: I do have an image file I could send along that demonstrates how it is possible to display an image exactly the same in all 4 of the browsers I mentioned with no color differences. It is untagged RGB and somehow it just works.

I am very frustrated with all of this and any suggestions will be appreciated

Thanks,
Pete
    This topic has been closed for replies.

    680 replies

    Participating Frequently
    November 13, 2007
    What is confusing your tests is your defective monitor profile.
    Contact your manufacturer and ask them for a replacement puck.

    Also some monitors are known to not work correctly with custom profiles on OS X.

    In overâsimplified terms:
    Each individual monitor profile has TWO PARTS:
    ⢠Part One is used ONLY by the Operating System (OS) and nonâcolorâmanaged applications.
    ⢠Part One tells the monitor how to display the color....
    Participating Frequently
    November 13, 2007
    Thanks for your input on this..... I added the clarification post above before I spotted your reply... thanks!
    Participating Frequently
    November 13, 2007
    >Lastly: Please restate briefly the exact problem with your Save For Web save color.
    And if Convert to sRGB in Photoshop and go to View> Proof SetUp: Monitor RGB duplicates the problem.

    To be more precise:
    SFW in PS CS3 produces image files that have much increased saturation.
    So much so that I cannot use these saved images for website production.
    This change appears to be similar to the results I get when Soft Proofing
    in "Monitor RGB"

    My observations:
    During testing and experimentation, I have also noticed that choosing ANY profile other
    than sRGB 2.1 for the monitor profile under System Preferences>Displays>Color
    produces a noticable color shift when soft proofing to Monitor RGB.

    I assume this is because the Photoshop working space is also sRGB 2.1
    The profiles match, so there is no color shift when softproofing to Monitor RGB
    or using SFW. This is totally expected. Therefore, and according to this behaviour,
    I will always see a color shift with SFW or Softproofing to WindowsRGB
    while using ANY monitor profile other than sRGB. No?

    Final question:
    How do I produce accurate images in Photoshop and save them for web production
    while using a profile that's calibrated for my monitor?
    Participating Frequently
    November 13, 2007
    I understand:

    1) Untagged sRGB in browsers duplicate the problem: "saturation is...boosted"

    2) Tagged sRGB in Photoshop SoftProofing Monitor RGB duplicates the problem: "saturation is...boosted"

    THE PROBLEM IS YOUR MONITOR PROFILE.
    The shift you are seeing is the difference between sRGB and MonitorRGB.


    You proved this by setting sRGB as your monitor profile, and by SoftProofing MonitorRGB and WindowsRGB with zero change on screen.

    I have no idea how much your MonitorRGB space is over saturating untagged sRGB, (unless you are Assigning/Assuming/Applying AdobeRGB profile to sRGB), but like I previously wrote:

    It is normal for sRGB to saturate a bit when the profile is stripped and viewed in a calibrated 2.2 gamma/6500 monitor space, but if is extreme you may have a defective profiling package.

    ++++++

    Try searching your monitor on google for known saturation issues.
    Participating Frequently
    November 13, 2007
    > any profile I choose under >Displays>Color
    I only asked for one profile: sRGB 2.1

    Yes, but I took it upon myself to investigate further

    > Macintosh is light and washed out.
    I only asked for one SoftProof (from Photoshop sRGB): Monitor RGB

    Yes, but I took it upon myself to investigate further

    > (you stated) More saturation and brighter colors in "Monitor RGB"
    I am going to repeat myself here for the last time:
    Is that the exact saturation problem you are posting about?

    Yes, it appears to be the same problem

    How much change are you seeing?

    Enough to be very concerned. Saturation is definitely being boosted.


    Lastly: Please restate briefly the exact problem with your Save For Web save color.
    And if Convert to sRGB in Photoshop and go to View> Proof SetUp: Monitor RGB duplicates the problem.

    Yes, this appears to produce the same results

    What monitor model number are you using?

    Dell 2407 wfp-hc
    Participating Frequently
    November 13, 2007
    >> any profile I choose under >Displays>Color

    I only asked for one profile: sRGB 2.1
    >> Macintosh is light and washed out.

    I only asked for one SoftProof (from Photoshop sRGB): Monitor RGB
    >> (you stated) More saturation and brighter colors in "Monitor RGB"

    I am going to repeat myself here for the last time:
    Is that the exact saturation problem you are posting about?
    How much change are you seeing?


    Lastly: Please restate briefly the exact problem with your Save For Web save color.
    And if Convert to sRGB in Photoshop and go to View> Proof SetUp: Monitor RGB duplicates the problem.

    What monitor model number are you using?
    Participating Frequently
    November 13, 2007
    If any profile I choose under >Displays>Color causes a shift except sRGB 2.1, how does this prove my monitor profile is bad? I would expect it to cause a shift.

    (assuming we are always Soft Proofing for WindowsRGB)
    Participating Frequently
    November 13, 2007
    You asked me to switch the monitor profile to sRGB, just for the test... no?
    I did that and posted my results.

    The term "first part" refers to my results "before" I switched profiles.
    The term "second part" refers to my results "after" I switched profiles.

    Here, again, are my results after switching to sRGB monitor profile, as you requested.
    >...using sRGB 2.1 as monitor profile for the test you mentioned.
    MonitorRGB and WindowsRGB looked exactly the same, Macintosh is light and washed out. <<br />
    Hope this clarifys for you.
    Participating Frequently
    November 13, 2007
    I am sorry, I am not able to follow your responses to my question.
    Participating Frequently
    November 13, 2007
    First part was BEFORE I switched to sRGB profile for test (Using my Calibrated monitor profile).
    MacintoshRGB goes lighter
    WindowsRGB goes darker
    Monitor RGB goes richer with more saturation, brightness in between the the other 2

    Second part is using sRGB 2.1 as monitor profile for the test you mentioned.
    MonitorRGB and Windows RGB looked exactly the same, Macintosh is light and washed out.

    I have just tried other profiles in the >Displays>Color area. They all produce a shift when "MonitorRGB" is selected. The only one that doesn't is sRGB 2.1
    So I believe this does not prove that my monitor profile is bad. I have been saying this all along, but pleases give me your next thoughts on this.