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_Peter_Mars_
Participating Frequently
October 31, 2007
Question

Photoshop CS3 color management "Save for Web" problem

  • October 31, 2007
  • 680 replies
  • 62092 views
This problem is getting the best of me.......

After spending 3 full days researching this problem, I am no closer to finding an answer than when I started. I still cannot produce a usable image through the "Save for Web" feature of Photoshop CS3. I have read web page after web page of "Tips, Tricks and Recommendations" from dozens of experts, some from this forum, and still I have no solution... I am exhausted and frustrated to say the least. Here's the simple facts that I know at this point.

I have a web design project that was started in PS CS1. All artwork was created in photoshop and exported to JPG format by using "Save for Web". Every image displays correctly in these browsers (Safari, Camino, FireFox and even Internet Explorer on a PC).

I have recently upgraded to PS CS3 and now cannot get any newly JPG'd image to display correctly. My original settings in CS1 were of no concern to me at the time, because it always just worked, and so I do not know what they were. I have opened a few of my previous images in CS3 and found that sRGB-2.1 displays them more or less accurately. I am using sRGB 2.1 working space. Upon openning these previous image files, I get the "Missing Profile" message and of course I select "Leave as is. Do Not color manage". CS3 assumes sRGB-2.1 working space, opens the file, and all is well.

The problem is when I go to "Save for Web", the saturation goes up, and the colors change. The opposite of what most people are reporting. Here's another important point... new artwork created in CS3 does exactly the same thing, so it's not because of the older CS1 files.

I have tried every combination of "uncompensated color", "Convert to sRGB", "ICC Profile", etc. while saving. I have Converted to sRGB before saving, and my monitor is calibrated correctly.
I have tried setting the "Save for Web" page on 2-up and the "original" on the left is already color shifted before I even hit the "Save" button. Of course, the "Optimized" image on the right looks perfect because I am cheating by selecting the "Use Document Color Profile" item. Why do they even have this feature if doesn't work, or misleads you?

Does anyone have any ideas what could be happening here? Why is this all so screwed up?
CS1 worked fine out of the box.

Final note: I do have an image file I could send along that demonstrates how it is possible to display an image exactly the same in all 4 of the browsers I mentioned with no color differences. It is untagged RGB and somehow it just works.

I am very frustrated with all of this and any suggestions will be appreciated

Thanks,
Pete
    This topic has been closed for replies.

    680 replies

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    A
    Anonymous
    February 16, 2008
    Tancredi is giving appallingly bad advice and it should be totally ignored.

    (Actually, it wouldn't be a bad idea for a Host to remove the Posting completely.)

    In the first image in his Link, he shows "Monitor Color" as his working RGB space and he has also "turned-off" all "Color Management Policies".

    The very fact that he is having these issues means that his Monitor calibration is far-removed from sRGB and, despite what he claims, it is totally UNlike any other monitor on the planet.

    :(
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    _Peter_Figen_
    Participating Frequently
    February 16, 2008
    I'm beginning to think this is hopeless. People like Tancredi are obviously taking a shot in the dark and recommending something that, on the surface, works, but have no idea why, or why it's a bad idea for general purposes. He prefers to literally bury his head in the sands of ignorance and asks you all to blindly follow. This thread has been through this very issues and back several times already. There is no problem other than people not understanding what's actually happening between color managed programs, one's that aren't, and differing monitor gamuts. Oh well...
    _
    _Jareus_
    Participant
    February 16, 2008
    I had the same annoying issue with my Dell 2407WFP-HC, and finally solved the issue with this very simple hidden setting in the Save For Web dialog box:

    [url removed by host]

    I hope this is of help to some of you.
    A
    Anonymous
    February 13, 2008
    > I have this option only in View -> Proof setup -> Custom ... Do I miss something?

    You are right. That is where it is. Sorry, my mistake on the location.

    The thing that you do need to be sure to do is to always use the Adobe Color Engine (ACE) and never the Apple CMM version.
    _
    _Michele_Berti_
    Participating Frequently
    February 13, 2008
    > When you Convert, leave "Preserve RGB Numbers" UNchecked;

    Ann I don't have anywhere the option "Preserve RGB Numbers" neither in the Edit -> Convert To Prifile and in the SFW windows. I have this option only in View -> Proof setup -> Custom ... Do I miss something?
    A
    Anonymous
    February 13, 2008
    >This is probably due to your monitor. Are u using a wide-gamut monitor or a narrower one?

    Michele:

    I am fortunate enough to still have a laCie electron22 blue III.

    >It occurs to me that the Tiff that he posted was never properly Converted into ProPhoto RGB in the first place and that it is really a mis-labelled sRGB.>
    >How did u check this and how can I verify it?

    It IS tagged as a ProPhoto RGB; and you can check this by drag-&-dropping your file onto a ColorSync Script.

    Library/Scripts/ColorSync/Extract Profile.

    However, in your case, your file was obviously incorrectly tagged with the ProPhoto RGB tag unless you meant the image to have an all-over scarlet color cast.

    If you use Edit/Assign Profile (with the Preview box checked), you can try out the effect of using different Profiles on a "Mystery-meat" file.

    With your file, the best-looking result seemed to be if I used sRGB.

    I then Assigned sRGB to your file.

    Now that it is tagged correctly, it can be Converted into any other space correctly and will also output via SFW correctly.

    When you Convert, leave "Preserve RGB Numbers" UNchecked;
    and choose "Relative Colorimetric"
    with "Black Point Compensationt" checked.

    Your problem seems to lie NOT with your monitor calibration but in incorrect use of Profiles.
    _
    _Michele_Berti_
    Participating Frequently
    February 13, 2008
    > I do NOT see a color-shift on my Monitor in either Safari (which IS color managed to some extent) or in Photoshop when I use CS3's SFW going directly from Adobe RGB but leaving SFW to shift the space automatically to sRGB.

    This is probably due to your monitor. Are u using a wide-gamut monitor or a narrower one? I belive the last apply in your case.

    > It occurs to me that the Tiff that he posted was never properly Converted into ProPhoto RGB in the first place and that it is really a mis-labelled sRGB.

    How did u check this and how can I verify it?

    > Did you perhaps just Assign the wrong Profile to it at some time?

    That tiff comes from Vuescan and the output was set to ProPhoto RGB.

    > If I treat it as already being an sRGB (by Assigning an sRGB Profile to it) and THEN Save for Web, I get an exact match to the more neutral colors seen in Michele's Gallery Image #2.

    Will check this. Thank 4 your help.
    A
    Anonymous
    February 13, 2008
    That is not how it works for me.

    I do NOT see a color-shift on my Monitor in either Safari (which IS color managed to some extent) or in Photoshop when I use CS3's SFW going directly from Adobe RGB but leaving SFW to shift the space automatically to sRGB.

    What other people see who use a non-color managed browser (like Firefox) on heaven knows what sort of a monitor is obviously beyond my control.

    If working in a very wide space like ProPhoto is not producing the results that you want for the web, the obvious answer would seem to be to work in a "narrower" RGB space while preparing images for the Web.

    Concerning, Michele's photograph:

    It occurs to me that the Tiff that he posted was never properly Converted into ProPhoto RGB in the first place and that it is really a mis-labelled sRGB.

    Did you perhaps just Assign the wrong Profile to it at some time? Or use the "Keep RGB numbers" option?

    If I treat it as already being an sRGB (by Assigning an sRGB Profile to it) and THEN Save for Web, I get an exact match to the more neutral colors seen in Michele's Gallery Image #2.
    _
    _Peter_Mars_Author
    Participating Frequently
    February 13, 2008
    Very nicely put... makes sense to me, but then so did marrying my first wife!
    A
    Anonymous
    February 12, 2008
    Here's an attempted summary of the main points discussed in this lengthy topic...

    "Simply" put: Seeing a colour shift in SFW does not necessarily mean anything is wrong at all. In fact, if your monitor can display a significantly wider gamut than sRGB, and is properly calibrated and profiled, you SHOULD see a noticeable shift in SFW. The difference is that in the normal Photoshop image view, Photoshop is using the monitor profile to display an accurate colour managed image...whereas the SFW preview window is NOT using the monitor profile, it's just throwing it up to the monitor (so to speak) to display however it ends up displaying. Uncorrected.

    This is as it should be, since most web browsers are not colour managed...therefore SFW is previewing what it will look like in most web browsers ON YOUR MONITOR.

    The best thing to do, assuming one's monitor is properly calibrated and colour management settings are correct, etc, is to trust what your file looks like in Photoshop and ignore any "incorrect" appearance in SFW or in a web browser.
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