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cscorer
Participant
January 28, 2018
Answered

Why does PSE2018 organizer change RAW time if GPS data present?

  • January 28, 2018
  • 3 replies
  • 1559 views

I have imported some RAW (Nikon NEF) pictures taken in France (GMT +1) into the organizer. The camera clock was set to the correct local time. The pictures have had GPS data (including a timestamp which is set to UTC/GMT) added by GeoSetter. I live in the UK, my computer clock is set to GMT.

When displayed in the organizer the pictures show the wrong time (1 hour early, i.e.GMT). The Information display shows Date Time Digitized as the correct local time, but Date Time and Date Time Original as GMT. However the EXIF information (using IrfanView) shows all 3 timestamps showing the correct local time. If the picture is edited and saved as a JPG, the EXIF times are all set to the correct local time in the JPG.

If I import the same picture without GPS information the times are correctly displayed as local time in all cases.

Can anyone explain why this happens, and how to avoid it (or, if it's a bug, how to report it)? I've done some searching but not found any reference to this (particularly the GPS data making a difference) - please point me in the right direction if I've missed something.

Thanks

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer SimmsySimmo

    I appreciate that this thread is nearly 3 years old, but noted elsewhere, the same issue has been troubling me, to the extent that I had all but given up on using PSE2018, and had not bothered to upgrade.  Adding GPS information is important to me, especially when travelling.

     

    However, having recently researched the various metadata standards, and through a process of "reverse engineering", I have now gained a better understanding of what PSE2018 and GeoSetter such that I am now confident to resume using PSE, and to upgrade.

     

    Firstly, GeoSetter is based on the "Exiftool" utility, developed by Phil Harvey, which is a very powerful tool for editing Metadata.  When a co-ordinate is set, GeoSetter undertakes a 2 step process.  The 1st step is to populate the corresponding fields within the EXIF:GPS header with the information corresponding to co-ordinate chosen.  The 2nd step is to then map all the "EXIF" fields into the corresponding XMP fields ... and it is this 2nd step that is causing what appears to be a disparity, although both tools confirm with the guidlines produced by the Metadata Working Group.

     

    It is worth noting that the EXIF fields are populated by the camera at the time the Picture is taken, but do not hold any infomation about time zones.  The corresponding XMP fields are able to hold the timezone information, and Geosetter suffixes the date/time with the offset from GMT / UTC according to the positon of the co-ordinates chosen ... with the exception of the XMP-xmp:CreateDate tag which instead replicates the ExifIFD:DateTimeOriginal tage, and has NO timezone offset.  It is the XMP-xmp:CreateDate tag that PSE uses to populate DateTimeDigitized, since it corresponds to the "Creation date of the digital representation".

     

    PSE displays the XMP fields which hold a timezone offset inaccordance with the underlying system settings, hence the discrepancy.

     

    To overcome the preference that all date/time fields show the same value, there are 2 option ...

     

    The first one is to "untick" the option within Geosetter which sets the timezone offset.  Refer to to the "No Entry" icons on the "Date" menu ... which will display the date/time fields as per the local time since there no timezone offsett will have been suffixed to the XMP tags.  Alternatively, use the "Exiftool" utility to add the corresponding timezone offset to the -XMP-xmp:CreateDate tag to display the date/time fields as per the system settings.

     

    I hope  this helps.

    3 replies

    S
    SimmsySimmo
    Inspiring
    November 11, 2019

    I have experienced exactly the same, and found this discussion when searching for solution.

    Through a process of experimenting with different scenarios, I reached the conclusion the PSE2018 populates the "Date Time" and "Date Time Original" tags from the EXIF Date/Time Stamp, and note that the EXIF standard does not support timezones, so PSE2018 uses the system settings from your computer, which in our case is based on the GMT / BST.  The XMP information for pictures within the PSE2018 catalogue will be made up of the "local" Date/Time where the pictures was taken, but with the corresponding GMT / BST time difference.  The "Data Time Digitized" Date/Time Stamp derives from the Date/Time Stamp added by Geosetter which includes the correct timezone, hence the mismatch.

     

    The solution I found to avoid the mismatch between the dates within PSE2018 is to close PSE2018 (if it is open) change the system settings of your computer to match the region where the pictures were taken (if not in the UK), reopen PSE2018, and then import the pictures.  Once the pictures have been imported, close PSE2018 and revert the system settings of your computer back to GMT / BST.  The information within the PSE2018 won't change.

     

    Touching on another thread I found, you will need to decide either to add/edit metadata using external tools prior to importing them into PSE2018, or within PSE2018.  Adding/Editing metadata using external tools once a picture is part of a PSE2018 catalogue can cause the mismatch data, especially if the "Save Metadata to File" option is later used from within PSE2018.  I have ended up in a situation where EXIF, XMP and IPTC tags have become misaligned.  I hope this helps.

    T
    tomh15735438
    Participating Frequently
    October 31, 2020

    I am experiencing the same issue in organizer 2021.

    I have Nikon NEF raw files that display display the wrong time.  My computer is located in the central time zone.  The time for NEF raw pictures taken in the the central time zone are displayed properly.  For pictures taken in the Mountain time zone, the organizer is converting Mountain time to Central time and displaying the converted time.  It should not do the conversion and just display the local time it was taken, ignoring the time zone.

     

    If I convert the picture to JPeg format, then the Organizer displays the correct time.  I did the conversion with both PSE and a Nikon tool.

    A
    Adobe Employee
    arshla jindal
    Adobe Employee
    January 31, 2018

    Request you to please do the following and check if it corrects the time of files:

    Select these images for which there is time mismatch.

    Right click on the selection and select Update thumbnail for selected items.

    It should correct the time of files then.

    Thanks

    MichelBParis
    MichelBParis
    Legend
    January 31, 2018

    https://forums.adobe.com/people/arshla+jindal  wrote

    Request you to please do the following and check if it corrects the time of files:

    Select these images for which there is time mismatch.

    Right click on the selection and select Update thumbnail for selected items.

    It should correct the time of files then.

    Thanks

    I won't try to understand (or explain ) this exif date/time issue...

    I have never met DST issues with photos from smartphones (my cameras have no GPS)

    To live happily, I suggest:

    - to be careful using external GPS tools. I have never met DST issues with photos from smartphones (my cameras have no GPS)

    - to test if you have problem with your own smartphone with DST

    - Since the issues are related to the many and non-standard ways dates are stored, check when needed.

    - The organizer has the tool to batch correct the date_taken for DST change: Right click on selected files and look at the various options to change date.

    - Testing the suggestion by Arshla Jindal: since the 'Update thumbnail' not only recreates the thumbnail but updates the caption and possibly other exif fields in the file itself, it may recover the right time.

    C
    cscorerAuthor
    Participant
    January 31, 2018

    MichelBParis  wrote

    To live happily, I suggest:

    - to be careful using external GPS tools. I have never met DST issues with photos from smartphones (my cameras have no GPS)

    I think this is the best answer. Having looked more closely at the files after GeoSetter has added the GPS data I notice that some fields (like Date/Time Digitized) have been changed to include the time zone (i.e. ...10:53:51 +01:00 rather than the original ...10:53:51). So I need to do some experimenting to prevent GeoSetter doing this and see if that resolves the problem.

    For now I'm reverting to the original, pre-GeoSetter pictures and living without the GPS information.

    Thanks to all.

    C
    cz35895897
    Inspiring
    January 29, 2018

    By coincidence I just posted almost an identical message. The difference for me was DST time shift and for you Time Zone shift.

    In my case I pretty much narrowed it down to DST time being re written if the picture time and organizer/editor time occur at various seasons. One during DST (daylight savings time) and one outside DST (Late March to late November). I would bet that something similar is happening if picture taking vs editing occurs in different time zones. Normally the software would not know where the photo was taken, but with your GPS it does. I have also observed that the organizer and editor interpret the JPG data quite differently, and another user was able to prove that EXIF data interpretation is one of the differences. Also See the posts on how some organizer (but not in editor) photos will not display correctly, or display with a narrow colored line through them.

    See my post on how I was able to test my DST theory. A photo displaying a given time in Organizer details panel, will display a one hour  different time when opened in Editor - File - Info. If it is saved in editor, then the new organizer info time will shift by an hour as well.

    If it is related to how EXIF data is interpreted and affects the display, then that problem apparently has been around for a long time with no solution in sight.

    S
    SimmsySimmoCorrect answer
    Inspiring
    December 24, 2020

    I appreciate that this thread is nearly 3 years old, but noted elsewhere, the same issue has been troubling me, to the extent that I had all but given up on using PSE2018, and had not bothered to upgrade.  Adding GPS information is important to me, especially when travelling.

     

    However, having recently researched the various metadata standards, and through a process of "reverse engineering", I have now gained a better understanding of what PSE2018 and GeoSetter such that I am now confident to resume using PSE, and to upgrade.

     

    Firstly, GeoSetter is based on the "Exiftool" utility, developed by Phil Harvey, which is a very powerful tool for editing Metadata.  When a co-ordinate is set, GeoSetter undertakes a 2 step process.  The 1st step is to populate the corresponding fields within the EXIF:GPS header with the information corresponding to co-ordinate chosen.  The 2nd step is to then map all the "EXIF" fields into the corresponding XMP fields ... and it is this 2nd step that is causing what appears to be a disparity, although both tools confirm with the guidlines produced by the Metadata Working Group.

     

    It is worth noting that the EXIF fields are populated by the camera at the time the Picture is taken, but do not hold any infomation about time zones.  The corresponding XMP fields are able to hold the timezone information, and Geosetter suffixes the date/time with the offset from GMT / UTC according to the positon of the co-ordinates chosen ... with the exception of the XMP-xmp:CreateDate tag which instead replicates the ExifIFD:DateTimeOriginal tage, and has NO timezone offset.  It is the XMP-xmp:CreateDate tag that PSE uses to populate DateTimeDigitized, since it corresponds to the "Creation date of the digital representation".

     

    PSE displays the XMP fields which hold a timezone offset inaccordance with the underlying system settings, hence the discrepancy.

     

    To overcome the preference that all date/time fields show the same value, there are 2 option ...

     

    The first one is to "untick" the option within Geosetter which sets the timezone offset.  Refer to to the "No Entry" icons on the "Date" menu ... which will display the date/time fields as per the local time since there no timezone offsett will have been suffixed to the XMP tags.  Alternatively, use the "Exiftool" utility to add the corresponding timezone offset to the -XMP-xmp:CreateDate tag to display the date/time fields as per the system settings.

     

    I hope  this helps.

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