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Question

How to remove 'banding'?

Forum|Forum|6 years ago
June 9, 2019
18 replies
9199 views

Hello,

Can anyone guide me how to resolve banding in PP? I shot with Black Magic 4k. I have added 100 Blur as part of my Color Correction, but I don't think that is the cause.

This topic has been closed for replies.

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rodneyb56060189

Legend

how come I can't click on page 2 of this thread and go there ?? I keep getting first page. I can only get here by clicking on this symbol.

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rodneyb56060189

Legend

that's weird.. it works now...

please disregard last mssg. re: clicking on page 2

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rodneyb56060189

Legend

It's a good thing we don't live near each other... I can see us in the local watering hole trying to talk everyone ( including the girl bartender ) into being an 'actor' in our story about " walking the dog " …. a cool story about nice animal … and THEN trying to find a stupid DOG at the last minute that doesn't try to sniff the lens all the time so you get a giant dog nose in every shot.

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rodneyb56060189

Legend

oddly enough, getting down to dumb stuff... 0-255 ( 8 bit) is really 256 , cause the zero is a number.

hehe... so 10 bit ( if you add up all the binary on off things ) is what 1023 ? I forget...

but that has NOTHING to do with video stuff in my opinion. Don't mind me, I'm nuts.

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rodneyb56060189

Legend

So, basically, the poster had stuff from Blackmagic ursa mini pro thing (whatever that is) that was 8 bit and when put into PPro it stayed that way and then blurring it went out as 8 bit ( h264) and that's what caused it. I would have thought that camera was better than that. Although, debayering ( from cinema Dng seems to sorta throw a monkey wrench in there, like how it is handled by NLE ? ) I will figure it out eventually.

Did you get your bmpcc 4k yet ? I looked at B&H today and see it's still back ordered. bummer.

That would be what, Braw ? would that color stuff be OK with adobe ?

I wonder if the ursa mini has a firmware update ?

color tutorials ( now free pdf and can get real books too) for davinci 15 is very cool. oddly I am at beginning and dealing with color spaces (managed or not, source, timeline, output, etc. ). Log is very cool for more narrow tonal range manipulations.

I had to quit and get beer after about 15 minutes of studying.. due to being stupid.

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rodneyb56060189

Legend

I still think my idea of turning that clip into a black and white clip with some glow ( like Godzilla when he started to run amok in Tokyo with his radioactive breath ) would have been a better solution for some 'dream' stuff...

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rodneyb56060189

Legend

here's what I mean... black and white... me trying to look 'shy' in a dream ...

R Neil Haugen

Legend

8 bit files have 255 theoretical levels of tonality black to white. 10 bit files have 1024. Yea, "limited range" means you're just a bit short of that.

Banding occurs when you have no pixel values in say two or three contiguous "levels" so there is a visual jump between values in what should be a smooth gradation.

You can move things around a fair amount with 10-bit files before you've got a situation that will show banding on-screen. You can get "there" a lot faster with the fewer levels of 8 bit files.

Looking at the blur effects in Premiere, the ONLY one with 32-bit processing is the Gaussian blur. Which would be my primary choice for any blur effect because of that.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

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rodneyb56060189

Legend

Neil, this is why what you contribute is so important .. cause you know all this stuff. For example, if I ask about 'what codecs are 10 bit codecs to keep the gradation of tonal values smooth ( as opposed to 8 bit ) there are questions I have...

I am pretty sure there are 8 bit codecs that are 4.2.0. I am pretty sure there are 10 bit codecs that are 4.2.2. But I personally don't have a list of all those things and how each NLE handles the exports ( via color defined spaces ). If rec 709 broadcast standard (let's say gamma 2.2 for fun ) is the delivery choice, then does it really matter whether I choose 8 bits per channel ( 24 bit ) or what ??? What is meant by 10 bit instead of 8 bit exactly ??? in what universe ?? Since there is so much confusion this is why I like the very explicit factual info you provide !!!!! And I love the way you break it down so that people who aren't that smart can understand it !

In this example ( this thread ) it was a matter of blurring a very smushy sorta wide field of color and tone ( like a sky or a wall or whatever ) … and banding took place. That was primarily cause the source material ( from Blackmagic ursa mini 4.6k ? ) was junk ? Or was it cause the project settings and color management was junk ? Or was it the export ( down to 1080p h264 is junk ? ).

I'm totally baffled !

If one is to follow your train of thought one would surmise that regardless of the source and the native broadcast standard of rec 709 gamma 2.2 ( most broadcast) or gamma 2.4 ( newer fancy broadcast).. and program monitor adobe stuffs it into... will make everything fine if it is exported in 10 bit. But I know of 10 bit stuff that is 4.2.0 … does that matter ???

Let's get down to business and address specific problems that posters have and just have the patience to be good teachers without blowing our own horns and trying to sound like important people, etc.

Being a jerk and an idiot, I am happy as a clam to learn what I can from this great forum and all the cool challenges ( like, how to upscale from 576 to 2k with motion keyframes automatically ! ) yikes... that's gonna take me a while to investigate !!!!

sanam82Author

Known Participant

So I added 6% noise and here is the result. Anyways, I think that's the best I can get. I will reduce the blur and will help on top of this. Thanks everyone for your support!

R Neil Haugen

Legend

The type of blur and how applied is really the trouble here. Along with the format/codec the file is exported into.

As someone who haunts around with colorists, and is a contributing author on a colorist subscription site, this can happen with Resolve also. The "how" of applying blurring effects is very important, and a lot touchier than most of us think it should be. Which type of blur to use for X effect on Y project with Z media, and how it's set up, can be a LONG discussion among colorists.

And also as noted, staying with a 10-bit codec for export after using a blur is pretty much needed for uses where you have such smooth, subtle gradations going on in the background as this image. I've seen so many discussions of this for colorists working to slightly blur a sky as an example, as part of trying to impart a narrower-focus 'feel' to an image. Exporting that to an 8 bit heavily compressed H.264 type media is always problematic.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

MyerPj

Community Expert

This just came in the (e)mail this morning... could be of some help?

Tips to Reduce Visible Video Compression on Uploaded Videos

sanam82Author

Known Participant

Thanks, MyerPj.

I will try to add some noise and see the result. Appreciate it.

SM

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rodneyb56060189

Legend

for those of us ( meaning ME ) who didn't understand the BPC thing.. this old 2015 article sorta explains it somewhat...

8-bit vs 16-bit - What Color Depth You Should Use And Why It Matters - DIY Photography

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Byron Cortez

Community Expert

Thanks rodneyb56060189 for the link with information about Color Depth.

Byron.

Legend

Community Expert

If you are working with 8 bpc video (24 bit in RGB) then you can not ask for more than that. If you are working with video of at least 10 bpc then activate the following check boxes before exporting and if possible export to a codec that supports 10 bpc such as Apple ProRes for example, or maybe a DNx. Both in the Sequence Settings and in the Export Media panel.