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jetescamilla
Participant
May 4, 2020
Question

Need to digitally sign a PDF document multiple times, don't want to save after every one.

  • May 4, 2020
  • 4 replies
  • 13484 views

Hello, I'm trying to digitically sign (with certificates) PDF document of my engineering plans.  Each Sheet has my Structural Engineering Seal and requires a signature on top of it.  To satisfy the Board of Engineering requirements this signature has to be validated.  I can not place a signature on one sheet and save again and again for 78 instances.  Also, the waiting process balloons and get's longer and longer as it's validating each signature that many more times.

 

I can't be the first to try and use digintal signatures on engineering plans, surely there is a solution to this. 

 

Thank you.

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    4 replies

    Thom Parker
    Community Expert
    Thom ParkerCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    May 6, 2020

    What you need is a stamp with your signature on it. You can stamp every page, then lock the document with a digital certificate. 

     

    https://www.pdfscripting.com/public/PDF-Signature-Stamps.cfm

     

    Thom Parker - Software Developer at PDFScriptingUse the Acrobat JavaScript Reference early and often
    T
    Test Screen Name
    Legend
    May 4, 2020

    No, no, no and again no. Your idea is not just an abuse of the whole idea of digital signatures, it also just won't work. The file will get exponentially slower and slower and, long before you hit 78 signatures, will crash and be unusable. I know why you want it, but you must think again.

    J
    jetescamillaAuthor
    Participant
    May 5, 2020

    Appreciate the truthfulness.  It just appears that Adoble PDF has no way of doing what I'm asking.  Engineed drawing require a signature from the Engineer of Record on each plan sheet.  All states require this.  There's lot of  "old school" engineers who don't want to shift their ways with modern technology but it sure appears as if adoble isn't helping my case during the COVID time where we can't interact in the office.

    M
    margueritek
    Inspiring
    May 6, 2020

    I feel your pain. Digital Signatures were introduced with Acrobat 4, in 2000. Changing the specification to satisfy your requirements (for instance: multiple signature appearances for a single signature) would introduce an incompatibility in all previous versions of Acrobat and Reader, 20 years worth.

     

    I would like to make the case for signing individual sheets as single page PDFs, the collecting them into a portfolio: If a revision to a single sheet is required, you can just replace that sheet in the portfolio, all others remain signed with the original signing date. If a different Engineer certifies a new or revised sheet, that single sheet (with the new Engineer's signature) can be added to the portfolio. Signing 78 sheets at one time tells me you must be an outstanding Engineer, never needing a revision or change order. 😉

      try67
      Community Expert
      try67Community Expert
      Community Expert
      May 4, 2020

      You only need to sign a file digitally once. It applies to the entire file as a whole. What you're doing makes sense (kind of) when signing printed paper, not for a digital document.

      J
      jetescamillaAuthor
      Participant
      May 4, 2020

      Unfortunately engineering plans don't follow the same set of rules as "legal type" document.  Each sheet needs to be stamped and signed by the registered Profession Engineer stating that they have taken ownership of all drawing on each sheet.  

        try67
        Community Expert
        try67Community Expert
        Community Expert
        May 4, 2020

        You can add a "wet" signature to each page and then digitally sign the file once at the end of the process.

         

        At any rate, what you're asking for is not technically possible. If you want to digitally sign each page then you need to add a unique Signature field for each page, sign each one separately and save the file after each signature. And yes, the file-size will balloon as a result.

        M
        margueritek
        Inspiring
        May 4, 2020

        Since each Digital Signature effectively signs the entire document, you are signing the same document 78 times just to get an image of the signature on each page. Unfortunately, the PDF specification does not allow multiple appearances for the Digital Signature Widget type (if it did, you could sign once and show the signature in 78 places), The only way around this, in PDF, is to make each sheet a separate, signed, document. Then collect all 78 sheets into a portfolio. The cover PDF (the one holding the portfolio) could then be signed (once) against a statement noting that the individual portfolio items are themselves signed.

        J
        jetescamillaAuthor
        Participant
        May 4, 2020

        Thanks for the work around suggestion but that doesn't seem practical for the number of sheets we have in a full plan set incorporating all sheets.  That's a ton of individual opening, signing, closing, etc.  

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