PDF edits and fraud

[Rebecca3568632167h9]

I was given a print out of a financial report that was printed from a PDF file.  When I started looking at the numbers on the report, they did not add up correctly.   The line items appeared correct., but when I manually totaled them, the totals were all wrong.  When I questioned the numbers and ask how the report was prepared. I was told that a PDF file was downloaded from QuickBooks and then forwarded to someone for review and printing.  The person that printed and presented the report states that they combined two pdf reports into one document and when they were combined, it resulted in a "file corruption" and the discrepancy in the numbers.   I obtained the original electronic file from the person that prepared the report.   The *only* numbers that are different between the original and the one the one when the discrepancy are the totals.  All of the line items stayed the same and there is no difference in any other part of the report.    I don't see any way that the numbers on a PDF file would change in this manner due to a "corrupted" file.  It's not a spreadsheet.  There are no formulas associated with the file.  The only way that the numbers would have changed is if an intentional edit was made.  I have requested an electronic copy of the "corrupted" file.  They have refused to provide it.   If the file was "corrupted", then it wouldn't be viewable.   How can I prove that they are lying to people who do not understand the difference between a PDF and a spreadsheet.  

[Joel Geraci]

How can I prove that they are lying to people who do not understand the difference between a PDF and a spreadsheet.  

I think you just did in your post.

[try67]

It's very difficult to prove such a thing, especially if you don't have access to the "corrupt" file.

But your description makes much more sense than theirs. It's extremely unlikely that only that specific part of the file will be corrupt and in such a convenient way that it shows another number exactly in the same location, and nothing else. Why didn't it show letters/characters in that spot? Or in other locations? Why is the file viewable in the first place if it got corrupted? Etc. It's much more likely someone edited it.

[Rebecca3568632167h9]

Thank you.  They have refused to provide an electronic copy of the "corrupted" file.   I know there is no way that 4 specific numbers were changed and nothing else changed on the entire document.  It's just frustrating because I'm dealing with people who don't have that much computer knowledge when I explain how implausible the explanation is.

[Joel Geraci]

If you are able to share the modified file, I might be able to look at the instruction set and see if there are differences in different sections.

[Rebecca3568632167h9]

Thank you.  If I'm able to obtain the electronic file, I will let you know.  I've asked for it twice.  They are not being very cooperative which makes me even more convinced that they made intentional edits to the PDF and this wasn't some weird file corruption.  If they aren't guilty, why wouldn't they happily provide the file in question

[Abambo]

Argument: PDFs are electronic papers. If you have something on a paper, numbers don't change by itself. 

(check also the file's properties. You may find issues there). 

BTW: for what is it good to change only a total in a bunch of numbers. I personally would have changed the numbers to match the manipulated total. That would have been much more convincing.

[Rebecca3568632167h9]

The committees know what their budgets are.....so if he had changed the numbers there, someone would have noticed right away.  When you look at a PDF type report like that, people make the assumption that the numbers add up.  The only reason I discovered is because I added up all of the line items and discovered there was a $70K discrepancy.  

[Abambo]

As a matter of fact, numbers don't change by themselves. BTW: even with spreadsheets do the numbers not change, but you may miss out numbers to add up. Check if that is not the case. 

As for all other things, we have not enough information to get you an answer. You would need to go to the source, redo the operations and demonstrate what happens.

The question still is who would profit from manipulating the numbers? When 70k are missing, they are missing somewhere physically. If it is a recurring report you can check previous reports for the same error.