Selecting among digital IDs for signatures

[jrsva]

We have two different digital IDs for use in signing different types of documents.  Somehow the images have gotten mixed up so the same image is attached to both IDs.  I need to edit one ID to embed the correct image or delete it and start over.  I'm kinda shaky on this whole procedure.  Please advise.

In Acrobat DC:  Tools / Certificates / Digitally Sign

Draw the signature box, click the drop-down for Sign As to show two choices.  The printed data shown is correct but both display the same image.

[Bernd Alheit · Accepted solution]

When you sign a document you will get a popup for the selection of the Digital ID:

Then you get a popup for the selection of the Appearance:

[Dave__M]

Go to your Preferences, and choose Signatures on the left.

Click on More..., and from there, you can choose the signature you wish to edit, and click the edit button.

I hope this is helpful.

My best,

Dave

[jrsva]

Sadly, this does not help.  We have two digital IDs and everything seems right in the edit mode.  They show the correct signature images and both say "Digitally signed by your common name here" and give the date and time.  When I look at the third item down, "Create and manage identities for signing," it also seems correct, referencing the proper digital ID files.  Now, when I try to apply the signatures, the printed names are correct but both use the image file for signature #1.  Oops.

I can make screen shots of these things if that will help to identify the problem; however. they will show both real names and real signatures, which I am not wild about posting on line.

[jrsva]

Having no further response, I deleted ID #2, which used the wrong signature image, and recreated it. Now, as before, everything looks fine in the Edit fields but when I try to apply a signature to a document, both IDs use signature #2.  That's the reverse of what it was before but still wrong. Fortunately, I use #2 more often than #1 so I'm OK for the moment but I would really like to get this issue resolved.  Anyone out there have an idea??

[Bernd Alheit]

Does you use the correct appearance when you sign the document? 

[Dave__M]

If I were able to recreate this issue locally, I might be able to add more... but without seeing it, I'm only fishing, unfortunately.  I'll keep trying, though.  I generally have a few Digital IDs, and even more custom appearances at hand - but mine are working properly for me (so far!).  Have you tried to 'mess with' some of the appearance settings?

My best,

Dave

[jrsva]

Thanks Dave.  I do not know what is meant by "the appearance settings."  I made 3 screen shots that might be useful but I can't figure out how to upload them to this forum.  I clicked the "Insert Photos" button above, selected the 3 files, clicked Upload and they appear --- but then what?  I can't get back to this screen without losing pix.  It looks s like there might be a "Done" button but it is inaccessible, overlain by the position choices; 'one' is visible next to the position buttons but it is not an active button.  Very odd.

[ls_rbls]

++Adding to the always valuable guidance of Dave and Berndt,

Please also refer to this discussion : digital signature appearance - fields to display 

See the answer that I posted for another user who had a similar inquiry.

I added additional slides in that discussion that may help you get around the method that Dave illustrated for you.

[jrsva]

I am using Adobe Acrobat Pro DC 2015 Release (Classic) I Version 2015.006.30505.

This is a purchased product, not a subscription, so I cannot update it. I tried running an update a year or so ago and it was all messed up, took several days consulting with Adobe tech help to sort it out. So, it is what it is.

At left is the Creation and Appearance Preferences screen showing my two IDs, which are greyed out for security.

When I select ID #1 and click on Edit, I get the screen shown below at right.
When I select ID #2 and click on Edit, I get the screen shown below at left.

Note that the information on these two screens is the same except for the signature images, greyed out for security but obviously different. All good up to this point . . .

But now comes the problem.

The result of applying these signatures to a document is shown below at right.

Signature #2 is at left, looking as it should. Signature #1 is at right. The printed name has changed as it should but the actual signatures are the same.
How did this happen and how can I fix it???

When I try to follow the instructions of ls_rbls in the forum linked above, there is no "Continue" button.

[Dave__M]

I think the issue at hand is confusion between Digital IDs and Appearances.  Think of it this way.  A Digital ID is an individual.  The Appearances are like sweaters hanging in the closet.  You can select a Digital ID to use, and apply any 'sweater' (Appearance) for it to wear.  The screenshots above show your sweater closet, if you will.  These are Appearances, that get applied to the Digital IDs at your discretion.  But changing the Appearance only changes the way the signature looks on the PDF page - NOT it's underlying qualities and security and encryption magic.  All that said, you may certainly create more than one Digital ID for your use.  Once you have the needed Digital IDs created, you can then use them by selecting the appropriate one for each use... and THEN apply the desired Appearance.

I hope this makes sense, and that it's helpful info. 

My best,

Dave

[jrsva]

Thanks Dave, that does make sense, but I do, in fact have two digital IDs, so the problem must be in how I am trying to apply them.

C:\Users\me\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Acrobat\2015\Security\name#1.pfx

C:\Users\me\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Acrobat\2015\Security\name#2.pfx

Each of those is (supposed to be) associated with its own image file but that's where things get crossed up. How do I set up two separate signatures, not two "appearances"? Thanks.

[Bernd Alheit]

The images are part of the appearances. 

[jrsva]

"The images are part of the appearances."

OK, so how do I attach an image file to a specific digital ID and not to its "appearance"?

[Bernd Alheit]

This is not possible. 

[jrsva]

I have two separate digital Ids. How can I use these to apply two different signatures (printed name + image + date) to a document?
Tools / Certificates / Digitally sign . . . then what? I just can’t figure out the steps.

[ls_rbls]

Seems like you're missing one important step that I explained for another user in the link that I posted earlier.

The version of the Acrobat product is irrelevant. The images are part of the appearance which is establisehd when you create the digital signature via the "Creation and Appearance " wizard.

If I understood this dicsussion correctly, you have two different digital signatures that you want to use, and both have different names. But when you use any of these two signature to sign a signature field the  imported graphic is the same for both, which shouldn't happen.

So, I am starting to think if this may be a bug because the screens that you've shared and the methods that Dave already explained to you should be enough.

However, I've found that this is not how you change the imported graphic. 

To do so, you need to click once on the signature field like you normally would  to sign. The dialogue window that will open "Sign with a digital ID" will pop up and you'll be presented with your available digital IDs to choose from.

Left-click once to select the digitalID that you want to use.and then click on "Continue". The next dialogue window will take over the screen "Customize the Signature Appearance".

• NOTE: This is the step that most users seem to miss because it is done at signing time, not through "Edit" --->>> "Preferences"--->>> "Signatures"--->>"Digital Signatures"---->>> "Creation and Appearance".

So, in the next dialogue window that will open up next you get the opportunity to change the image. You may notice the following availavle options :

• Text
• Draw
• Image
• None

Click on "Image" followed by clicking on "Browse".

This will open up your file explorer (if on MS Windows) for you to navigate to the folder where you have saved the image filethat is associated for the selected digitalID.

Pay attention that, by default, this will open up  the roaming user profile directories that you already identified:

C:\Users\me\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Acrobat\2015\Security\name#1.pfx

C:\Users\me\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Acrobat\2015\Security\name#2.pfx

Obviously these folders paths doesn't contain the image file that you're looking for.

Unless you navigate back up in the directory structure of that tree,  and check where is it that you have saved it, which I will assume it should be somewhere in "MyDocuments" folder or the "Pictures" folder, for example.

Also keep in mind that "AppData\Roaming" is more of temporary folder that continuously changes. So if you have saved your imported graphic anywhere in the subtree of "AppData", that  is simply not a good idea.

Anyway, once you've located your image file select it and click on the "Save" button. This  will bring one last dialogue window with the option to actually sign. But if the preview window doesn't display the correct image that you want, you'll get the "EDIT" option available again to be able to change the  image  before executing the signing  action.

Clicking on the "Sign" button  will finalize the signing action and the field will be signed with the image that you have selected.

[jrsva]

Thanks ls_rbls, that seems like a really detailed description, but here is where I get hung up:

"To do so, you need to click once on the signature field like you normally would to sign. The dialogue window that will open 'Sign with a digital ID' will pop up and you'll be presented with your available digital IDs to choose from.

Left-click once to select the digitalID that you want to use.and then click on 'Continue.' The next dialogue window will take over the screen 'Customize the Signature Appearance'."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have an open document that I want to sign so I go to Tools / Certificates / Digitally Sign

At this point I am asked to use the mouse to draw out the box where I want the signaure. When I complete that a pop-up appears captioned "Sign Document" and at the top it offers "Sign As:" with a drop-down menu for my two IDs.  One of them shows my name and signature correctly.  The other choice shows the other name but with my signature.

Apparently I have taken the wrong route to get to this point.  I never get 'Sign with a digital ID' or a 'Continue' button.  Please tell me how to start the signing process that will get me to those options.  Many thanks.  I'm sorry to be so thick-headed.

[Bernd Alheit · Accepted solution]

When you sign a document you will get a popup for the selection of the Digital ID:

Then you get a popup for the selection of the Appearance:

[ls_rbls]

From what you continue to describe, if you go to tools and select the Sign tool, is an unnecessary method, unless you're trying to certify a document with a digital signature.

You're not required to use this tool to sign if you use the "Prepare Form" tool instead, which will facilitate the user to add a signature object field.

After you add your signature field, close the Prepare Form tool, and then just click once on that signature field to sign.

This will open up the dialogue box as illustrated by Berndt Alheit in his screenshot.

[jrsva]

Thanks again ls_rbls.

I looked at the "Fill & Sign" tool.  It seems that this tool inserts a plain signature without the printed name, date, and time of execution of the document.  In my case, it picked up an obsolete image file and I don't see any option to select a different file.  This would work for some instances if I can change the image file to insert.

BTW, I've never seen the screen that Berndt posted, "Sign with a Digial ID."  Where does that come from?

I am trying to sign and certify a document.  I am not trying to create a form for others to sign or even create a form for me to sign. I use this, for example, to sign my Form 1040, for which I want my printed name, date and time, not just a raw signature.

I did try the "Prepare Form" tool and it produces the same error that I've been getting with the other method — both IDs use the same image file.

I'm sorry.  I've worked with computers for over 50 years, creating web pages with HTML and writing Fortran programs.  This  thing has me completely baffled.

[Bernd Alheit]

What version of Adobe Acrobat does you use? 

[jrsva]

I posted this two days ago:

I am using Adobe Acrobat Pro DC 2015 Release (Classic) I Version 2015.006.30505.

This is a purchased product, not a subscription, so I cannot update it. I tried running an update a year or so ago and it was all messed up, took several days consulting with Adobe tech help to sort it out. So, it is what it is.

ls_rbls said that the Acrobat version is irelevant . . .

[Bernd Alheit]

My screenshots are from Adobe Acrobat DC.

You have posted :

In Acrobat DC:  Tools / Certificates / Digitally Sign 

I use the same. 

[jrsva]

Berndt, how exactly did you get to your screenshot of "Sign with a Digital ID"?

When I use Tools / Certificates / Digitally Sign  I do not get anything like that.  It asks me to outline the area to place the signature, then offers my two IDs, both using the same image file.

[ls_rbls]

The version is irrelevant because these steps are consistent since version 9 for thr creation and appearance of digital signatures, which is very well documented in the Adobe Acrobat Digital Signature Guide and the addendum to this reference guide.

The only difference in screenshots is the "Modern user interface" which can be enabled and disbaled through Edit-->>Preferences--->>> Signatures.

Your HTML and Fortran experience of 50 years is very probably what is interfering in understanding these basic steps. I am trying to throw a funny note here (not actually being disrespectful).

I am sure that if all of us here in this discussion add up our ages together the total is well above 150 years of age.

Trust me, I struggle too with the lazy millenial slangs of cell phone texting and youtubers that have become rich and famous with only "Internet-Google is my Friend" educational background.

Like for example, "coz" or "bcuz" to express the actual word "because", or "sup?!?"  just to actually say "what's up".

So don't expect too much difference in the cloud computing coding environment.

This is everywhere, even in other industries and professions, such as journalism.

What used to be a reputable profession with real top stories in newspapers and magazines is now suffering from this thing called "citizen journalist" ... all you need is a stupid cell phone and shoot a video of something, post it online, and all of sudden you're now a journalist with the added perk that you never had to go to college (because Google docs, MS WORD, and Grammarly will do everything for you).

So who cares about design errors in a code, right?