Thumbnails continually rebuilding

Report · Dec 13, 2012

I got an update for ACR (CS6) today and installed it. Suddenly, EVERY time I open Bridge or return to it from another page, it starts thumbnailing my images from scratch. We're talking hundreds of images in this folder. This is new. It did not do this yesterday. What is going on and how do I fix it. If I leave bridge (even if it's still open) and I go back to Bridge, it starts doing the thumbnail extractions all over again and THEN starts on the full size extractions all over again. The result is that all of Photoshop has slowed to a crawl. This is the second time in a month that an update has caused new problems that did not exist before. It's beyond frustrating.

that's cute. I just sat through 10 minutes of full size extractions counting down. it got to zero and STARTED AGAIN. Okay, guys, what's going on? I have 50 gb of images from Asia I need to process. I truly don't have time for this. And the thumbnail extractions just started over again.

Message title was edited by: Brett N

Report · Jun 20, 2013

ycardozo wrote:
What do you mean by "they didn't touch the edges of the image?'

If you rotate and/or transform an image, it ceases to be level and rectangular, and you might want to crop it to make it so—to remove the blank background showing around the edges. If you wanted the biggest image possible, you would crop it so that is just constrained, i.e. the biggest size possible that fits within the boundaries of the transformed canvas. Then the crop boundary rests again the image boundary in several places.

If you move the crop boundaries away from the edges, this seems to help.

Report · Jun 20, 2013

Yammer P wrote:
Make 2 large Collections (say about 1000 items each) of Raw images from your archives. Try to include several folders which are known to cause the cache regeneration issue. In one folder, include as many cropped images as possible; in the other, try to have none. (To make things easier, you can use the 'Camera Raw' Filter options 'Cropped' and 'Un-cropped' to add/remove images from each Collection.)
I've just done this, and there are no regenerations in the Un-cropped Collection. The Mixed Collection has 290 cropped files, which generates about 40 extractions on focus. I'm using ACR 7.2.

Is there something important about these files being in a collection vs just shifting focus to the folder?

In your test did you see cache files being regenerated (updated file modified time stamps) or just the Bridge extraction status line?

Either way with a folder, then collection of 284 files, 212 of which were cropped in acr. I did not see a large number of preview extractions status line from bridge in this test (acr 7.2).

When I launched bridge and navigated to the source folder Bridge briefly flashed a preview extraction status (single digit), however a look at the cache content shows no updated cache files in 256 or 1024. I then changed focus to the collection: no preview generation.

Report · Jun 20, 2013

Robert Shomler wrote:
Is there something important about these files being in a collection vs just shifting focus to the folder?
In your test did you see cache files being regenerated (updated file modified time stamps) or just the Bridge extraction status line?
Either way with a folder, then collection of 284 files, 212 of which were cropped in acr. I did not see a large number of preview extractions status line from bridge in this test (acr 7.2).

The only reason I used Collections is so I don't have to move the files. I assume the effect is the same.

I never checked the sidecars to see if they were updated. To be honest, I'm not sure how important that is anyway.

Of the cropped files, maybe 10–15% were being regenerated in ACR 7.2 on my computer. In 7.3+ it is considerably more.

There are several complex scenarios you could think of which might cause problems, and I haven't looked into every possibility:

a straight crop
a rotated crop
a rotated image
a perspective correction (horizontal and/or vertical)
a scaled-down image
a geometric lens correction
a combination of the above

Report · Jun 20, 2013

Yammer P wrote:

I never checked the sidecars to see if they were updated. To be honest, I'm not sure how important that is anyway.
Of the cropped files, maybe 10–15% were being regenerated in ACR 7.2 on my computer. In 7.3+ it is considerably more.

Not the sidecars, the Bridge cache files (that are or would be regenerated) in Bridge cache

C:\Users\[user name]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Bridge CS6\Cache

I've seen one-off regens in 7.2 following metadata update. In 7.3 or later the regens repeat - regen each time focus is given to one of those folders. I's the repeated regen that is the principal problem (not seen with Bridge + acr 7.2).

Report · Jun 20, 2013

Robert Shomler wrote:
Yammer P wrote:

I never checked the sidecars to see if they were updated. To be honest, I'm not sure how important that is anyway.
Of the cropped files, maybe 10–15% were being regenerated in ACR 7.2 on my computer. In 7.3+ it is considerably more.
Not the sidecars, the Bridge cache files (that are or would be regenerated) in Bridge cache

Sorry, yes, that's what I meant: the cache files.

Report · Jun 21, 2013

Yammer wrote:
I found a folder with a high incidence of repeat extractions. It had 49 copped images in it. I edited all the crops in ACR 7.2, also making sure that they didn't touch the edges of the image. Now there are no repeat extractions!

Doesn't seem to stop the problem with latest versions of ACR. I think there are TWO problems: one since ACR 6 (or earlier), and one since ACR 7.3.

Report · Jun 21, 2013

I'd agree. With 7.2 and earlier problem seems to be one-time Bridge extractions, but not regenerating and replacing cache files. The Bridge problem with 7.3 and later is repeated regens where (at least in some tests) cache files are regenerated and replaced.

Report · Jun 21, 2013

Robert,

Back in 2011 on another forum you gave instructions on how to turn off preview extractions. In this, you said "click the 'browse quickly by preferring imbedded images' square in the application bar." I've looked all over that top bar and can't find anything like this. Was this for a much earlier version of Bridge that no longer exists? If not, where is the application bar. And if one does this, do you no longer see the thumbnail images at all in the program. I'm not even sure I know what all this refers to. Or was this perhaps how someone in a much older version of Bridge changed from creating metadata sidecar files to using a database??? Maybe this would be a workaround. I am grasping at straws here but it's a thought

I am copying the conversation here:

1. Robert Shomler,

http://forums.adobe.com/message/3812038#

Jul 21, 2011 7:36 AM in reply to cwcsdc

Report

Click the "Browse quickly by preferring embedded images" square in the Application Bar (it toggles on and off) or check "Prefer Embedded (Faster)" in the "Options for thumbnail quality and preview generation" pulldown.

Is there a way to turn off preview extractions?

This question is Not Answered.

Jul 21, 2011 5:00 AM

[Unable to display image]I had a collection of just under 500 photos, mostly raw and dng. I selected them all with the intent of updating the metadata. Bridge started creating preview extractions, and I had to wait, and wait, and wait for my metadatadaa updates to take effect. I wasn't ready to look at the images, I just wanted to update the metadata. Besides, I don't need previews for the 200+ raw files, only the dng, psd, and jpegs. Is there a way to temporarily turn off preview extractions?

Report · Jun 21, 2013

You can use embedded by clicking the 2nd icon on the second line of the toolbar. (embedded, High quality on demend, always high quality).

Report · Jun 21, 2013

ycardozo wrote:
Robert,
Back in 2011 on another forum you gave instructions on how to turn off preview extractions. In this, you said "click the 'browse quickly by preferring imbedded images' square in the application bar." I've looked all over that top bar and can't find anything like this. Was this for a much earlier version of Bridge that no longer exists? If not, where is the application bar. And if one does this, do you no longer see the thumbnail images at all in the program. ...

"Prefer Embedded (Faster)" will cause Bridge use the low-resolution thumbnails embedded in the source (raw) files for its content display (shows only the thumb in the raw file, no acr or other edits. Here's the usual place to find that choice -- upper right of the Bridge window.:

Report · Jun 21, 2013

I would have never looked there. Thank you for the screenshot. It sounds like if this was checked, you wouldn't be able to see metadata when you hover over the thumbnail image in what I think folks call the filmstrip. Maybe not a good thing for my workflow. Oh well. Anyway, I will not change a thing until I have a chance to download CC on the weekend. Meanwhile, it's good to know the option.

Report · Jun 21, 2013

On my computer, both 'always high quality' and 'generate 100% previews' are checked. That must be the default since I didn't change anything. What happens if I just keep it on 'always high quality' like in the screen shot? Or even 'high quality on demand?'

Report · Jun 21, 2013

No one-size-fits-all answer here. Can't recommend without knowing your workflow. Keeping 'always high quality' usually is a good choice -- gives you current view of acr edits et al. Generate 100% previews takes a lot of system resource to generate first time in -- uses more disk space and slows initial browsing. Might not be worth the system overhead unless you zoom in to or use loupe or slide shows on a lot of previews.

Report · Jun 21, 2013

ycardozo wrote:
I would have never looked there. Thank you for the screenshot. It sounds like if this was checked, you wouldn't be able to see metadata when you hover over the thumbnail image in what I think folks call the filmstrip.

I always use embedded, and do not generate 100% previews. In filmstrip mode I see metadata when I hover over thumbnail. Win 7 OS.

Report · Jun 21, 2013

Robert Shomler wrote:
No one-size-fits-all answer here. Can't recommend without knowing your workflow. Keeping 'always high quality' usually is a good choice -- gives you current view of acr edits et al. Generate 100% previews takes a lot of system resource to generate first time in -- uses more disk space and slows initial browsing. Might not be worth the system overhead unless you zoom in to or use loupe or slide shows on a lot of previews.

well, I have unchecked 'generate 100% previews' and it seems to make absolutely no difference in how I work. I can still go to a full size image by hitting the spacebar and then to a 100% zoom of the image if I click within that full size. I can also get a smaller 100% preview box (I think that's what you were referring to a 'loupe' if I click on the image in the preview pane. So I have absolutely no idea what advantage 'generate 100% previews' gives someone. It is not the default on Photoshop CC but I am guessing it may have been the default in earlier versions since I sure didn't change it. Boy, this is useful no matter what. It's one less thing for my computer to grind through. Thks so much. Like I said, this is a truly fantastic forum. So what exactly do you get by clicking 'generate 100%previews' other than a lot of waiting.

Report · Jun 21, 2013

I believe if you have "generate 100% previews", and "save 100% previews to cache" it saves time if you are repeadily using the same images at 100%. I never do and it can eat up a lot of disk space. So that is why your workflow is important on how you set up thumbnails and cache.

Report · Jun 21, 2013

ycardozo wrote:

. So what exactly do you get by clicking 'generate 100%previews' other than a lot of waiting.

The 100% views come up a lot faster when pre-generated. It's a tradeoff: pay the performance to generate them in advance, or wait one by one for them to be generated when you zoom in or otherwise call for a 100% view. (Another way of saying what Curt Y wrote.)

Report · Jun 22, 2013

Robert Shomler wrote:
I'd agree. With 7.2 and earlier problem seems to be one-time Bridge extractions, but not regenerating and replacing cache files. The Bridge problem with 7.3 and later is repeated regens where (at least in some tests) cache files are regenerated and replaced.

I think I looked at the cache several times before and decided that no new cache files were being created, despite Bridge's words to the opposite effect.

I also discovered a while back that the timestamps (I can't remember the details, but I wrote in this thread) on the cache files weren't actually current, nor were they the same as the EXIFs. This is why I said that I don't think it's relevant if they weren't updated, and Bridge is clearly busy doing something, even if it doesn't seem to produce anything as a result.

Maybe it is overwriting cache files but with the old date somehow. I wouldn't have thought it possible, but what do I know.

Report · Jun 22, 2013

well, I have unchecked 'generate 100% previews' and it seems to make absolutely no difference in how I work. I can still go to a full size image by hitting the spacebar and then to a 100% zoom of the image if I click within that full size.

That is expected behavior, the new settings are only applied to newly added files. The already build 100% previews are still available on your system, stored in the Bridge Cache folder called full, should be quite a large file on your systems by the looks of it

I can also get a smaller 100% preview box (I think that's what you were referring to a 'loupe' if I click on the image in the preview pane.

In Bridge you can set the pref to add a command key to click for using the loupe. Can be useful if you want to click on a file to select it when having multiple files in the preview window (up to 9 is the max). The loupe is useful but when you don't have 100 % preview set to always you need to wait a little while for it to build.

By default the loupe shows 100 %, with the scroll wheel or the + and - keys you can set it also to 200, 400 and 800 % enlargement

So I have absolutely no idea what advantage 'generate 100% previews' gives someone.

Like Robert explained perfectly, this is depending on you needs for a good workflow. Personally I have a lot of files and add more and more every day. Never need the always setting but occasionally need to examine close. either with loupe or full screen wit mouse click to get 100 %. It takes a short while but that is far more economical for me then having Bridge generate all files, this takes a lot of time and a lot of space.

But I have set previews to 'always HQ' which btw is the default setting. I know Curt likes the 'prefer embedded' setting but I only use this setting when I need a quick glance on an archived CD / DVD or an old non cached folder with large content. When you only need to look for the series of files to pick this is a useful settings because it does take less before being able to the content. But when having found what I needed I copy it to my work folders and let it build HQ for the correct content and judgement and when it gets critical I use 100% on demand.

So many users, so many workflows...

It is not the default on Photoshop CC but I am guessing it may have been the default in earlier versions since I sure didn't change it.

No, it has never been the default, you must have set it your self one way or another and it is a Bridge setting not a PS setting

Report · Jun 22, 2013

This is all intriguing. When I am on my main computer later, I will create an entirely new folder of test images and see if I can notice much difference. Thanks for explaining it all. I truly wonder how my setting got changed. I never even knew there was a choice and would not have known how to do it if that screenshot hadn't been provided. Even if I had somehow clicked on that icon, I wouldn't have entirely understood what it was referring to and I learned a long time ago if you don't understand, don't change anything. Truly interesting.

Report · Jun 22, 2013

btw, you mention the bridge cache folder. Where, again, would I find this? Now I'm curious about exactly how large it might be. There is an option to export the cache but I don't do that. Or does that refer to something else entirely?

The comment from above:

"The already build 100% previews are still available on your system, stored in the Bridge Cache folder called full, should be quite a large file on your systems by the looks of it"

Report · Jun 22, 2013

In win7:

\Users\[user-name]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Bridge CS6\Cache

Report · Jun 22, 2013

Robert Shomler wrote:
In win7:
\Users\[user-name]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Bridge CS6\Cache

thks. i will check this when i get bk to my main computer. and i am downloading cc tonight. i'll let all of you know the results.

Report · Jun 22, 2013

I learned a long time ago if you don't understand, don't change anything. Truly interesting.

How about this one: change everything to learn as much as possible, that would be truly interesting…

Report · Jun 22, 2013

ycardozo wrote:
btw, you mention the bridge cache folder. Where, again, would I find this? Now I'm curious about exactly how large it might be. There is an option to export the cache but I don't do that. Or does that refer to something else entirely?
The comment from above:
"The already build 100% previews are still available on your system, stored in the Bridge Cache folder called full, should be quite a large file on your systems by the looks of it"

yes, indeed, it is. 76 gb