P: Revert UI to older Camera Raw UI (12.2.1) after Interface Changes

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

after updating photoshop , when i opened it for the first time there was option to use camera raw as it is (vertical film) or to change it to new UI (with new look and horizontal filmstrip ), i just clicked new UI to see how it looks , i thought if i dont like it i will just go back to using older UI but there is no option to select older UI , i contacted adobe but person who was helping me just suggested that i should install older version of camera raw or ask for help from this forum , i found it bit frustrating that if there was simple option to choose new UI so why not give option to revert back to older UI with newly updated software. maybe its bug or adobe forcing people to use new UI even if they dont like it

[Fred Baxter]

Charles it shouldn't be called CameraRaw 'Classic' it should be called ACR PRO. The LightRoom UIX that the GUI of ACR was replaced with is a consumer based internet layout. ACR 12.2.1's GUI is for Professional Photo editing i.e. ACR PRO. It abides by the basic principles of the HIG's.

How long until we can no longer use ACR 12.2.1 any more is the real question? With the new M1 Mac's out that might not be to far down the road. ACR 12.2.1 as is will never run native on M1 machines. How long will Rosetta 2 run it?

[PECourtejoie]

*Nowicz I suggest to create ideas thread for the two other items, so that the team can see votes on each individual item.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Circling back to this thread - I am attempting to convey the most cumbersome points in the new crop tool to the team.  As I was never a Bridge-ACR user personally in my workflow, I need to know the following from you, those immersed in this workflow. This thread wanders and contains many issues and not all are crop-tool related. 

To that end I would like to get a list from you of Crop Tool-only issues which cause an increase in edit time processing in the Bridge to Camera workflow.  If you could, provide in simple single sentences a short list of the biggest time increases of using the new crop tool.

[Ash Mills Photography]

New crop regime moves canvas under crop, so you lose your sense of geography within the image.

[Ash Mills Photography]

Canvas does not automatically refit well to fit the workspace, requiring additional click/keyboard sc to retain size.

[Ash Mills Photography]

Crop setting is stored for “use previous setting” which is contrary to what it was, which can accidentally crop an image if you are working fast.

[Ash Mills Photography]

Sliding and spinning the canvas around impacts CPU/GPU which impacts on background processing of other images, wastes energy, produces heat, causes hair loss.

[Ash Mills Photography]

My children prefer cropping “like you do with a ruler” when they are “helping” me work.

[BCNisly86]

Thanks Rick. I will speak to the main purpose of this thread and let others add their concerns. 

1. We need the ACR cropping tool to have a classic mode option like Photoshop has so that the photo does NOT move behind the cropping tool when cropping, listed as "auto center preview" in Photoshop's crop tool settings.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

• @Rikk Thank you for bringing this information back.  For starters, since you haven't really used ACR, as a pro sports photographer it was just a really lean program, like PhotoMechanic, which is also part of my workflow.  Images rendered quickly, and because it was just the basic adjustments, one could get through hundreds of images very quickly.  There wasn't a filing system or any other "frills" that LR adds, so it was lightning quick. 
  
  For the new crop, I would mirror some of what Ash mentioned.  First, cropping for years has been a function of having an image, creating a crop window over it, and moving the window over the image to determine what you want to crop. The image would stay stationary, which intuitively makes it easier to focus on the crop you're trying to make. 
  
  Now, you create the crop window, and move the entire image UNDER the crop window, while the crop window stays stationary.  As a result, your image moves all over the canvas, and it's frankly is really distracting.  I think the best analogy  I've seen for this is the pen and paper one around here somewhere. The old tool was like writing traditionally, paper stays stationary, and you move the pen around to make your letters.  The new tool is like holding the pen stationary, and moving the paper to write.  I think it's actually worth trying to do that as an exercise, and see how hard it is to focus on the entirety of the paper in context to the writing you're doing.  When you're dealing with an image, it's much easier to focus on the details of cropping when the image isn't all over the place on the canvas.  It seems to me that keeping a 45MP image in one spot would be less CPU usage than having to render it moving all around the canvas.  I know I've had more than a few instances of rainbow wheeling trying to edit images, whereas I mentioned above, the leanness of the old program never ran into those issues. 
  
  Next, an equally big issue for me, and Ash mentions it, is when you complete your crop, the newly cropped image doesn't resize within the canvas.  Meaning, if you crop into an image significantly, the resulting image is very small.  In order to assess how you like the crop, you then need to use keyboard strokes to zoom in.  Should you need to readjust the crop, which is frequent in sports photography when you're trying to see which crop is more impactful, maybe trying to crop out a player that isn't key to the image, etc. the process starts again.  Try crop, then the need to zoom in again.  It's many, many extra key strokes, and across a number of images, it slows the process significantly.  For example, a working sports professional process images in between periods in hockey, or at half time for other sports.  Sometimes this is 25 or more images that need to be cropped and captioned to be delivered to the client, in a short time, any time wasted is critical.  The old crop would fill the same space on the canvas of the original image. 
  
  So I think if I had to summarize the difference, the old crop had the image stay stationary in the canvas.  When you cropped into an image, it filled the same spot.  When you're doing volume processing, the image starts and stays in exactly the same spot throughout the process, and you can move on to the next quickly.  I'll see if I can create a video to demonstrate this.  

[Wes Duenkel]

@Rikk To summarize and add to previous comments:

1) Add option to keep photo "stationary," or "anchored" when cropping and straightening. This saves time because many find the current "move/rotate the image" approach counterintuitive.

2) Make default zoom setting for crop tool larger (e.g. 45%). While the current zoom setting for crop tool allows room to grab the handles, etc, it's overkill and makes the image too small. Give us some padding, but not THAT much padding!

3) Reapply the previous zoom setting after cropping. This is hard to describe in one sentence, so let me explain the way the process should work (consistent with 12.2.1)

a) Edit image (keyboard shortcut e). Zoom setting is "Fit in View"

b) Select crop tool (c). Zoom setting zooms out for cropping.

c) Select edit tool (e). Zoom setting should return to "Fit in View". (ACR currently keeps zoom setting from crop tool, which is unhelpful.)

Having to "re-zoom" the image back to what it was before cropping is an extra mouse click or keyboard shortcut that was not required with 12.2.1.

4) Add "Variable Crop Handles". This is a "nice to have," but not a "must have." You asked what would save time, and "Variable Crop Handles" would save time.  

Hope those make sense!

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

@Rikk  Here's a quick video with the old crop.  Notice how the image stays in one place, and it's easy to focus on your work.  Also notice how I toggle between the cropped image and the original image to demonstrate how the image resizes to exactly the same space. 

[Wes Duenkel]

Bingo. That's the "classic" option. Also note how the zoom "returns" to fit in view without additional mouse clicks.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

@Rikk 

Here's a look at the new crop to compare.  I've done some exaggerated movements to show how the image can move around the screen.  I think you'll agree that ultimately it's hugely distracting moving the image around, versus the crop window.  Imagine doing that across a gallery of 300 images.  What you can't hear is my fans firing up when I do that. I've also shown how a deep crop doesn't resize. 

The additional issue I didn't mention was that when you crop in, and resize to see the result, when you go to recrop the image is zoomed in and you no longer have a look at the entire image.  So, you have to zoom out.  So those are extra steps zoom in and out to judge a crop, and recrop. 

[Wes Duenkel]

@Rikk These two videos illustrate 1, 2, and 3 in my reply above. Thanks @habs3335! Look at how the image is stupid-small at the end of the video, and the zoom needs to be increased to continue working on the photo.

[BCNisly86]

*habs3335 Thanks for those videos. They show the difference between the two cropping behaviors quite well - how the photo stays stationary in classic cropping, but moves behind the new crop tool. This is the auto center preview option in Photoshop's crop tool settings (in the gear icon at the top when the crop tool is selected). It's great to have control of that in Photoshop. It's exactly what we need in ACR. And I agree with the sizing problem you showed. The extra steps to zoom are very inefficient.

[defaultmb1zzudpf8z1]

I know this thread is over six months old, but can someone tell me how to download Bridge 10.0.4?  I just reverted back to Bridge 10.1.1 + ACR 12.2.1 and I can confirm they are not compatible!??  In Creative Cloud when I click on the three dots -> Other Versions, my only options are 11.0.1., 11.0, and 10.1.1.  Please help!

[DarkWarriorUK]

ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/photoshop/cameraraw/win/10.x/

[defaultmb1zzudpf8z1]

Thanks for your prompt reply DarkWarriorUK!  Any chance you have a Mac version of the 10.0.4 download?

[DarkWarriorUK]

There you go
ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/photoshop/cameraraw/mac/10.x/

All you had to do was change 3 letters, lol

[Lumigraphics]

@Rikk I can live with the current tool however it should have a mode that works exactly like the rectangular marquee tool in Photoshop. Click on a point and drag to define crop area. It used to work that way and was easy to figure out and use quickly.

[MichelBParis]

@lumigraphics 

The new interface allows "to click on a point and drag to define the crop area" provided you have disabled the icon to keep the aspect ratio" then positioning the right tilt angle.

For me, no penalty in speed when 'cropping' a big batch of files at the same time.

You have to forget the old paradigm of cutting out borders,

- you can imagine you are moving your paper holder under the projection of the enlarger;

- you can also imagine you are playing with place holders in templates (clipping masks)

- You can imagine you are in the printing dialog to position your print in your page. with the blue frame rectangle, allowing moving the frame in the page or the image in the frame...

In all cases, you have to draw freely the rectangle, then play with either the image or the frame to get your result. Remember that in nearly all cases where you have to 'crop' (I would call it 'reframe' = 'recadrer' in French), you have even a minimum tilt angle to correct.

I totally agree that the change of paradigm has fooled me until I have understood that I can work much like before, and without any loss in processing speed.

[Wes Duenkel]

Understood, but when I'm working quickly, I don't have the bandwidth to "imagine." I just need to "do."

A legacy option would be best for those who are used to that approach. 

[Wes Duenkel]

@Lumigraphics: That mode still exists. Just click and drag in the image. Have you tried it?

[MichelBParis]

@weS_duenkel

You say:

Understood, but when I'm working quickly, I don't have the bandwidth to "imagine." I just need to "do."

Even if I have a totally different profile as yours, I understand that your main concern is to perform a big batch of 'crops' as fast as possible for your job. As an amateur, this is also a requirement for me from time to time. My background in logistics has always made a search for speed and workflow efficiency a second nataure while my creative needs may ask for spending a lot of time on an edit.

I would be very happy to still have the old interface as an option, but my suggestions are meant to help overcome the psychological blocking on a given 'crop' paradigm. Having practiced photography with a twin-lens reflex and printing in a silver darkroom since 1958, I know the necessity to 'reframe' each square negative I was editing.

So, my suggestions to try to imagine other paradigms is to make them more natural. If you practice just 5 or ten crops, that should be enough to forget your old habits. The challenge is to 'forget' your old way, and practice just a few edits for training. Think 'reframing/recadrage instead of cropping/rogner' from the camera to the final photo file. The need for such bulk croppings arise for certain types of action shots. Contrary to what you are thinking, only a small minority of ACR users are really concerned by speed in bulk cropping, the others are nearly all concerned to get used to a new interface they don't understand why it has been changed.

You are your boss. If you had an employee to do the cropping job, you would ask him/her to use the most efficient workflow.