Adobe, Linux Support, and the Linux Foundation.

[gai.ra.III]

While generally I've only lurked the Adobe forums I've finally worked up guts to post this. I also know that about every 1-2 months this question is asked but I think it deserves a another go around.

My premises is this:

Adobe joined the Linux Foundation in 2008 for a focus on Linux for Web 2.0  Applications like Adobe® Flash® Player and Adobe AIR™. Currently Adobe holds a silver membership status with the Linux Foundation. So why in the world do they not have any Creative Cloud Programs available in Linux without the need for WINE and other such workarounds. I think it's a sucky move to support the Linux Foundation and use Linux in the back-end while not doing anything to support actual Linux users who have for at least a decade requested Adobe desktop products on Linux. Sure it's going to take a lot of manpower, financial resources, etc. But to truly support Linux and the Linux Foundation I think it's necessary that y'all do make things like Photoshop and Lightroom available for the Linux desktop. In any regards the wider Linux community would most likely help with testing and debugging programs. We're used to it.

[logic11]

You seem stuck on the idea that this is something Linux users should fix, or something that they shouldn't bother Adobe about. Ubuntu has recently made major headway in India, with hundreds of thousands of new desktops going in in corporate and government environments. It's obviously up to Adobe to decide if they want to support Linux, but one of the best ways for them to make that decision is to see a massive groundswell in support of Linux. That could easily push them into accepting Linux as a supported OS (after all there is nothing inherent to Linux preventing you from charging for software on it, and many people do, and with this newfound support in India that could quickly add millions and millions of new potential customers).

[logic11]

It's quite clear that you have never used Linux and don't know what it is. Ubuntu is one of the more popular linux variants, and it has a much better looking GUI than windows does. You can accomplish any standard computing task without ever seeing a command line, etc. Mint has a desktop I prefer, although it doesn't look as good. It's absolutely more functional than Windows 8 however (well, that's true for most OS's on a Desktop, 8 is only really a good tablet OS).

Also, I don't post this for you, but in case anybody from Adobe product dev is looking at this thread.

[mytaxsite]

logic11 wrote:

Ubuntu has recently made major headway in India, with hundreds of thousands of new desktops going in in corporate and government environments.

In that case Adobe should start the work on producing products for Linux Ubuntu.  Do you know whether all these billions of Linux users are prepared to pay for applications to run on their machines?  I always thought that Linux users are not used to paying for anything.  All they know is how to download something for free, try it out for 3 days and drop it because it isn't for them.  You now think this has changed, Right?

When you post back please tell us if there is any OEM who is selling desktops pre-loaded with Linux Ubuntu.  Without machines, there is no point in wasting time, right?

[mytaxsite]

logic11 wrote:

It's quite clear that you have never used Linux and don't know what it is.

Correct.

Never used it and no plans to use it in the near future.

In the meantime, if you want to use your Linux then go to this site and see if you can use their photo-editing software for free:

<Photo editor online - Pixlr.com edit image>

For website, you can use this one:

<Joomla! The CMS Trusted By Millions for their Websites>

These are all free for Linux users.

After using those, perhaps you won't need Adobe so your problems solved.

Good luck.

[Xeon64]

mytaxsite.co.uk is a MS fan boy troll. No one respond to him. His post are the idiocy of a emotional fan boy.

[jayfaulkner]

Yeah, it's kinda sad, really.

Just bumping this thread in my bi-annual google search for "Adobe linux" in the vain hope that someone there has actually listened.

[sir igl]

I am a Photoshop user since 15 years now and I am increasingly saddened by having to drag a windows machine around just for the sake of Photoshop.

Move on Adobe! You are not making games but software for professionals.

OSX and Windows are no longer operating systems for professionals but for your mom and her aunt.

[mytaxsite]

OSX and Windows are no longer operating systems for professionals

Really? What are these operating systems for the professionals and what

do they use it for? Apart from using Adobe and Microsoft software for

business what other software packages are there that runs on other

operating system or systems for the professionals?

[TZiady]

Yeah, I have to agree OSx is a lost cause; but most professionals tend to have a few windows boxes around.

[uvii]

mytaxsite.co.uk wrote:

I always thought that Linux users are not used to paying for anything. 

I find that claim offensive and inaccurate. There's no reason Linux users (who are usually tech-savy and work in a community that earns pretty well) won't pay for professional products (free software alternatives notwithstanding).

Also, I want to add that OS statistics put Linux usage at around 1.67%. That's very little, indeed - but you're looking at it wrong. Windows holds 90% of the market and OSX holds around 8%. Yet, OSX is considered a platform that requires support. Why is that? For one, it's because those 8% are, mostly, people who have a tendency for graphic design - i.e, they're far less than Windows 90%, but most of that 90% isn't the target demographic for Adobe software (most Windows users are just that - users). On the other hand - Mac, with it's measly 8% compromises almost entirely of designers and developers.

I would argue that Linux is similar - it has a low OS usage, but that 1-2% we have are almost entirely made from developers - people who make stuff. The kind of people who would like to use Photoshop and other Adobe products. And I'm pretty sure a native version of Photoshop for Ubuntu will be well received and might even spruce those usage percentages up. And think about it - even a very small change of, say 1%, is huge! And it woul be 1% that is 100% adobe clients.

In other words, I think that a native Linux port would return the investment. Of course, as an Ubuntu user, I'm hardly objective on the subject. But that's my two cents anyway.

[TZiady]

I agree that most (including myself) linux users are developers and technology experts. I would pay for it in a second and I know many more that would. The first version of Photoshop that I ever used ran on an SGI Indigo. Adobe and Macromedia have always big supporters of the Apple platforms because of their heavy usage in the design industry as you say. Anyway, it is a lost cause for now. I will continue to run linux on my main PC and use my laptop occationally for adobe stuff when I absolutely need it. Eventually, I will find alternatives because the switching back and forth will basically be a huge waste of time.

T

[mytaxsite]

Of course, as an Ubuntu user, I'm hardly objective on the subject.

Yes Adobe knows this very well and that is why their position is not

going to change for many years to come. Sorry no Adobe products for

Linux users. Use Windows or look for something else. Is there no one

in the linux community of "developers and technology experts" who can

create suitable products for their members? This is amazing .

[mytaxsite]

I agree that most (including myself) linux users are developers and

technology experts. I would pay for it in a second and I know many more

Can you cite an example what have you bought in the last 12 months to

run on your Linux box? Just wondering what can you run on a Linux box.

[TZiady]

Just on my own linux platforms, I have not bought very much; however, there isn't much available. I have purchased this and office and a slew of other software that I need to use in my daily business processes. If this and others were available for linux, I would purchase them just like I do now for windblows. However, given enough time, I will continue to use dual platforms, until linux catches up or I find something else to replace these tools.

[uvii]

mytaxsite.co.uk wrote:

Of course, as an Ubuntu user, I'm hardly objective on the subject.

Yes Adobe knows this very well and that is why their position is not

going to change for many years to come.  Sorry no Adobe products for

Linux users.  Use Windows or look for something else.  Is there no one

in the linux community of "developers and technology experts" who can

create suitable products for their members?  This is amazing .

There are a ton of alternatives. But I want to use Adobe products! I like them and I'm used to them. Screw dual-boot, I want to run them on linux! "Sorry no Adobe products for Linux users"? Really? Just like that? Not even a "we will consider it"? Don't you think it deserves even a little bit of thought?

Also, your condensation is incredibly out of place. If you don't use\like Linux products that's fine. But these products have gone a long way since when they were small ideologically-nice-but-practically-terrible OS. With Ubuntu, Linux has developed into a very unique and powerful OS. I'm actually a bit in awe of how much it changed. I used to mock it just like you, but somewhere along the way since 12.04, and even more with 14.04 recently released, I found out that it was really really f***ing good. So good, that I really find it hard to go back to Windows - Ubuntu is just smoother, faster, neater and easier to use.

Gaming - one of the biggest things Linux users didn't have - has also taken a nice turn with Steam putting incredible amount of effort into making their own Linux OS, and I can say that gaming has never been so incredible for Linux users (you asked @tziady what he bought? I just bought 100-200$ worth of games the past week - good decent ones (like Portal 2 and Witcher 2), not indie titles, and I'm eagerly awaiting Borderlands to come out. And it's not just me. Go ask Steam how much money they make. Let's see you tell me Linux users don't buy stuff you f***ing t***).

You spout out of the top of your head that "there's no market" but you have no proof for that other than thinking like that. I might not be objective, but neither are you. And yes, Adobe needs to look at the subject objectively. I have asked on a few threads - 2 here and more around the web, and I have yet to come up with any good explanation why there's no Linux port. I'm willing to hear "there's no market, we checked it" but instead I always get responses that are either:

- condensation

- mockery for trying to use Linux

- biased explanations that say nothing

- theories about why (that aren't really relevant)

- talks about Wine

I don't buy this. You're saying there's no market. Steam invented a market out of thin air. It's not just because they're steam, it's because Ubuntu is a genuine good OS. Not everybody has enough money to afford a Mac (I actually prefer Ubuntu UI, but both OS are very good), and with a native version of Adobe for Ubuntu you just might start a trend for the design industry.

Of course this shouldn't happen based on some commentator on the internet. But please, show me that there's some thought put into it. That there's someone who thinks "Hey, let's find out if there's a market". I'll accept a negative answer. Ubuntu might still not a good market for Adobe. But I will not accept an answer that says "there's no market because we said so".

p.s.

Photoshop CS6 runs very well on Wine 1.7. A port might be less work than you think.

[TZiady]

Very well said and I could not have said it better myself. The very simple fact is that you would think that additional revenue, particularly that which would probably cost you very little to attain is always a good thing. As web developers (very heavy Linux users) are a major user of Adobe products, you would think this would be a no brainer. Hey obviously we all arguing about it doesn't make a difference one way or another. It is Adobe's decision and they have to see value in the community. But with companies like Google developing other legitimate OSs, linux gaining ground and usability and most importantly more users, things like chromebooks, I am amazed that adobe doesn't even think of developing their own thin client. Anyway, hope they pull their heads out of their ....... soon and see the light .....

[uvii]

tziady wrote:

hope they pull their heads out of their ....... soon and see the light .....

Bare in mind that they might be right. Linux usage is still small and unattractive. It might not be a good market for Adobe.

I'm just mad at the condescending responses I get that tell me Linux users don't buy stuff or that Linux sucks bla bla bla. I'd like to get a reasonable answer why "no" or a "we're considering it". "No" is an ok answer to the question of "why no linux", provided it comes with some decent explanation (which could even be "we don't want to do it". That'll be ok too. Adobe doesn't owe us anything). I can't stand these high-tower pr*cks that never used Linux and think badly of it for no particular reason other than just because.

[mytaxsite]

uvii wrote:

You spout out of the top of your head that "there's no market" but you have no proof for that other than thinking like that

.

The proof is in the pudding.  If there was a market then everybody would rush in to make a product and start selling it.  We are in the 21st century where everything is based around money.  We don't have benevolent society anymore.  Those days are gone long ago.  Now every decision is based on how much can I make.  If the answer is not enough then there is no point in wasting time and allow others to try it.  Businesses only take calculated risks as they have done in this instance.  Linux is just not a viable product..  It is good to be used as a server but not for desktop work.  This could change if we get 100% cloud based products where client side scripts are not needed to run the product like Microsoft Office (Lite) which can be used free of charge by anybody with a Microsoft Account (I believe even Linux users can use it).  There is no installation needed.  Adobe is not that sort of product yet.  It is years behind schedule because of lack of technical ability in house and deficit in current technology.

Why do you think most mundane, repetitive jobs are outsourced to countries in Pacific Rim and Asian countries?  Have you given a thought to this?  Please tell us.

Let me repeat again, there is no money to be made in creating any products for Linux Operating System.  Don't keep banging on it all the time. Business managers knows better; Not an enthusiast Adobe user like you. Let the enthusiasts and academics handle products that makes no money. When they have cracked it, they can approach corporations like Microsoft and Adobe if they would like to enter into joint venture with them so that academics can make use of Marketing skills of corporations and corporations can make use of technical skills of academics and enthusiasts.  This is fair, don't you agree with this?

[uvii]

mytaxsite.co.uk wrote:

uvii wrote:

You spout out of the top of your head that "there's no market" but you have no proof for that other than thinking like that

.

[...] If there was a market then everybody would rush in to make a product and start selling it. [...] Let me repeat again, there is no money to be made in creating any products for Linux Operating System. [...]  This is fair, don't you agree with this?

First of all - that's the most level-headed answer I got here, so thank you for that.

I want to point out one thing though: you said that there is no money to be made - proved by the fact that not a lot of companies make products for Linux. That's true, but it's also a chicken-egg thing. Ubuntu (and other Linux distros) used to be terrible. They were... just... awful. And with few users came fewer professional companies. That's fine.

The thing is - it isn't like that anymore, and there's a pretty clear trend to prove it - the last two years saw usage rising from 1.11% to 1.65% (which is a lot). Now I'm not saying Adobe should "jump on this incredible opportunity". That's naive, and I know better. I'm just saying the market has changed, and will continue to change, and this is something that should be considered. Not for academic reasons (because Linux is not just for academics anymore), but because it might very well be a valid and profitable market.

Of course, without a proper market research there's no point arguing theoretically. If Adobe doesn't want to do that, well - there's nothing I can say (it's your choice to make as a company) - but I think it's fair if I ask for you guys to re-evaluate your market and see if maybe maybe Linux has changed. I think that's a fair request, don't you think?

[sir igl]

This is pretty ridiculous. Just don't reply to mytaxsite.co.uk. It's only feeding the fire.

So far he has proven to be Narcissistic, Racist and probably unemployed. Who posts at the adobe forum for a living?

Unless you work in a .net shop it is very unlikely that you will be in contact with windows outside of a VM.

It's annoying that we have to run windows in VMs or reboot our Macbooks to shitty OSX to get access to Photoshop.

Ubuntu made leaps in bringing the Linux desktop forward but Linux numbers will always be bad with so many OEMs not even offering it.

Users never change what comes out of the box to them and Microsoft pays OEMs nicely.

[Siskulous]

mytaxsite.co.uk, you have made it very abundant throughout this thread that you know nothing of either Linux, it's community, it's user base, or it's marketing potential. That being the case, you should really consider educating yourself before you start bashing it. And Adobe, please for the love of Pete tell me you have the sense not to pay attention to someone who has admitted they don't know anything about the subject.

Here are the facts: Over the last 10 years or so Linux has been gaining ground at an accelerating rate. It was never, as some seem to think, dominated by hobbyists. If it were Red Hat, Novel, Cannonical would all be out of business and IBM would be tens of millions of dollars poorer that it is. Furthermore, consider how unlikely it is that a bunch of random hobbyists could make it in the first place. 90% or more of all Linux kernel code is written by people who are being paid to write it (which really becomes obvious when you consider how Linus Torvalds treats them -- who'd put up with that non-sense for free?) I'd guess the numbers don't change much when you look at the apps for it.

There is a mistaken impression around that Linux users won't pay for anything. It is wrong. There are many examples of products which prove there is a viable market for paid Linux software. The market is strong enough that Ubuntu even includes a 'for purchase' section in their software center now. And that market would become much more profitable than it already is for everyone if Adobe would release Linux versions of their software because the lack of Adobe products is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to Linux adoption. While there are Linux-compatible alternatives available to everything Adobe makes the Creative Suite products are the industry standard.

Is the market there? You need look no further than the third party forum Adobe pointed to at the beginning of this thread, which received such overwhelming feedback that they were forced to disable further comments. Would Adobe profit more than it would cost them? Absolutely it would. Heck, even MICROSOFT is selling software to Linux users these days.

If there is a negative side to offering a Linux version it would be that Adobe would either have to hire more programmers or slow down its release cycle, but as I said they would still make more money than it would cost them. They would be almost guaranteed to sell CC to at least half of the Linux desktop world.

So long as the big name computer sellers only offer Windows on their desktops it will never be the fabled 'year of the Linux desktop', but that doesn't mean there's not a sizable market here.

[mytaxsite]

mytaxsite.co.uk, you have made it very abundant throughout this thread that you know nothing of either Linux, it's community, it's user base,

It took you 146 posts to realize this and one wonders whether you are living in the real world.

I agree, I know nothing about Linux, I have never used Linux and I have no plans to use Linux unless my employers points a loaded gun to my head which is unlikely because we don't have any Linux boxes in house except for the webserver which none of us come across on a daily basis.  People have to get on with life and make quick bucks and that means you have to use the tools that are available for you.  We don't sit and cry like little babies that a particular corporation is refusing to make tools for us to do the job as we like it.  We just take whatever is available and give a good go at it to make it work for us.  Fortunately, Windows is pretty much flexible for us in this respect.

I have finished with this as I have nothing to defend or contribute further on Linux products.  From tomorrow we may not be United (Kingdom) if Scotland decides to go independent!    Don't know yet what will happen to my various dot co dot uk domains.

[uvii]

No one is crying about anything. We're asking that Adobe consider working on a port for Linux. Consider, because despite my best hopes, it might still not be a good market for its products. Instead you call us cry babies. How is that any kind of argument? How the hell is Scotland related to this in any way? Do you mean to say that "things change" - whoa! hold on there cowboy, we're jus' ain't up to all that super-smart tech talk, We be jus' silly little Linux users, crying ourselves to sleep. Get out of the high chair, and give us some respect when you speak to us. Is that really too much to ask?

[Orko_H]

mytaxsite.co.uk wrote: I agree, I know nothing about Linux,

Sorry, what are you doing in this thread? Also as you stated before "Now every decision is based on how much can I make."- are you also getting paid for talking about things that you have no knowledge about? Also it's not true that Adobe has never made or does not make any product for Linux. There are few Adobe products for Linux.

It's pity that many industry experts still don't understand that when in Linux community people talk about free, that's “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer". Linux users pay money for the softwares and services they use if needed. One prime example is Google's app store.

The thread is about having creative cloud for Linux- which I think is very legit request. I am paying money for Adobe Cloud, and as it's customer I have the right to request for feature that is valuable to me. Now it's up to Adobe to listen to it's customers who actually "pay" for using the software and services or to listen to "self-claimed experts and professionals" who have no knowledge or whatsoever on the things they talk about. The danger of having many unsatisfied customers is as soon as a disruption happens in this industry (without any doubt right now Adobe makes some really great tools), the business may collapse as like many other companies in the history. With the rise of Linux based Operating Systems (like Android or Ubuntu) I will hope Adobe will keep leading instead of following and falling behind.

[macless6]

Hey everybody!

I got an idea. Somebody said in this forum that we should write to investors. So... Let's do!!!

But to who should we write?

Yes! I'm nominating Mr. Kelly Barlow from ValueAct Capital and member of the board at Adobe. He's financially connected with Adobe, has influence, but isn't the number one at Adobe. Therefore he should be more accessible and easier to contact. You'll find a contact at ValueAct's website. But it's not a direct contact. Since I'm not from the USA for some of you may it be easier to get contact information. Just post it here at Adobes very own forum. SO everybody can contact him and flood him with our topic. But be nice and polite. Being a dickhead will not get us any further. But say what you need. Say it directly to someone from Adobe - not to some poor support guy.

Let me know if somebody gets the contact.

I still love Photoshop (and I'm a subscriber to the PS CC...) but I hate Microsoft. Linux's the way!