[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[Andy_Bay]

I beleive everyone should switch to creative cloud instead of prepetual to avail the wonderful beneifts : like cloud storage and product upgrade security.

Please enlighten us a bit more about the "wonderful benefits" of the cloud!

I can get 15 gb of FREE cloud storage right now from Google. And Dropbox. Enough said? I also don't like the idea of uploading client work anywhere. And based on the license terms it seems like Adobe gets broad rights to the uploaded content. So good luck with that!

What is this upgrade security you are talking about? I just read about a user who had his CC Premiere stop working, after the latest upgrade. That's not the kind of "security" professionals look for. Also, you seem to be happy to gain "security" of getting new features. Well how about the security of having access to your own work? Doesn't bother you at all to loose everything once you end your subscription?

Are those two all the wonderful benefits you are referring to?

[squarepixelllc]

I don't see how you can compare dropbox to the Creative Cloud, that just seems silly. Dropbox can not show you layers, keep fonts, be used to show comps to clients directly from the native file, save color pallets, and manage versions.

And adobe has broad rights to the clients content? Have you ever read the terms for facebook? Or even for dropbox? They need to retain some rights to be able to store it for you. You really think you are creating content that adobe is going to steal?

[BITESBITER]

We use the "Master Collection" and during the different CS  versions there have always been updates.

So I can't follow your story about keeping up to date. I remember I had to jump from CS4 to CS5.5 to be able to use the Canon XF305 and we are still using that version of the "Master Collection".

Most updates from Adobe are gimmicks and mostly you end up buying 3th party stuff that go's along with the Adobe stuff that really offers some essential up to date  technology.

What pressure is left now for Adobe to innovate!? Your paying anyway!

To name a couple: Red Giant, Videocopilot,  Projectseven, Webassist, Astudegraphics, Vertus Fluid Mask  and the list go's on.

The only difference now is that because of our company upgrade frequency we have to pay 3x more.

[Jeff_Know1]

bishtjitender, you could be a character straight out of Aldous Huxley's book "Brave New World". They wouldn't even have to give you pills.

[squarepixelllc]

Three times more bitebiter? Do you know how much the master collection cost? Just silly. Maybe Adobe should just give it away for free.

There have been some pretty significant updates recently. And from watching Adobe Max some more large ones to come.

[BITESBITER]

No we started as students with a student license and then upgraded to a pro license when we jumped of with the company. And from there we went.

3X cheaper then CC.

[Andy_Bay]

I don't see how you can compare dropbox to the Creative Cloud, that just seems silly. Dropbox can not show you layers, keep fonts, be used to show comps to clients directly from the native file, save color pallets, and manage versions.

Someone mentioned that the storage is a great benefit. And I was telling there is plenty of free storage out there.

And adobe has broad rights to the clients content? Have you ever read the terms for facebook? Or even for dropbox? They need to retain some rights to be able to store it for you.

I would never store anything sensitive in Facebook. Because I don't trust them. And after the current events I'm sorry to say I trust Adobe even less than Facebook.

You really think you are creating content that adobe is going to steal?

At this point nothing that Adobe does would surprise me. I have zero trust for the company.

[LouNettel]

Hi!

I just signed the petition "Adobe Systems Incorporated: Eliminate the mandatory "creative cloud" subscription model." on Change.org.

It's important. Will you sign it too? Here's the link:

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-su...

I

am totally incensed by this move. I don't want ten programs, I want only two, PS & LR...and to charge me absolutely outrageous prices is totally unacceptable!! I will be looking for alternative editing software, but this irritates the hell out of me...and to think I've been selling my students on using PS and LR. I feel like a traitor!! [Can't tell I'm really pissed about this move!!]

Thanks!
Lou

[squarepixelllc]

I am sure that this may make it hard for the casual user. But if you are making a living in this very technical field and not updating every year or so then you are not really working much in the field. I spend more than the fee on adobe software than I pay for the cloud. Seems like a good change to me, in this industry things change fast and we need access to software that is frequently updated, and to have new options. If you cant afford 50 bucks a month then you could not afford the newest CS# anyway's. So maybe you find a cheaper alternative.

I don't agree with everything Adobe, or any company does. But to fault a company for wanting to make it financially feasible for them to make a profit that's just silly. You always have the option to go and download something open source like gimp. I am willing to bet the biggest impact is going to be to those who download the software for free from torrents. The software was not cheap to start with, paying it out in monthly installments, better file sharing, better updates, and new software is a win for me, as a small freelance designer. Paying 50 bucks a month for my tools is not to bad. They have to pay people to manage the company, and to create those new features. They would lose a lot more customers if they were not keeping the software up to date and adding features than those who complain they don't update software every 4 years.

Also when you talk about the value of a customer to Adobe, if you only update one product every 3 years, of course you are not there target market to keep happy. But someone who uses the tools and wants, loves, needs those updates and buys the master suite every year, that is. And for us it is cheaper and more convenient. Adobe is a for profit company after all.

It would be nice to see a cheaper version for the hobbyist though.

[Andy_Bay]

Let me begin by saying it's quite interesting to see someone with so little posts suddenly defending Adobe policy... Kind of makes you suspect...

But if you are making a living in this very technical field and not updating every year or so then you are not really working much in the field.

Interesting statement. I guess we view what it means to be a professional quite differently. You seem to think that true professionals need all the latest bells and whistles. I think true professionals are the ones least interested in that kind of hype. They know their tools, they have established workflows and they are already creating amazing things. It's like telling a painter he's not a professional unless he buys the latest new paint brushes every year.

If you cant afford 50 bucks a month then you could not afford the newest CS# anyway's.

The money is the least of the problems here. I wouldn't buy a subscription even if it was 20$ a month if there is no exit strategy.

But to fault a company for wanting to make it financially feasible for them to make a profit that's just silly.

Like it wasn't feasible before. Have you looked at their profits? Anyway, nothing wrong with making a profit. The wrong thing is to do it with this kind of extortion.

You always have the option to go and download something open source like gimp.

You bet I have! And the amount of alternatives is growing fast!

I am willing to bet the biggest impact is going to be to those who download the software for free from torrents.

That's just pure nonsense. Let's hear some proof to back up you claim!

[BITESBITER]

I fully agree!

It is not only about the money.

I don't like to be trapped in a other subscription thing and cut of when ever we have a financial problem.

There is still one of the biggest economical crises going on in the world.

You never know if you are the next victim of it and it will be nice to be able to still use your software.

And that latest technological stuff!? During the years I have hardly seen any real essential innovation coming from Adobe.

We have spend more money on 3th party software/plugin/extension development then Adobe Upgrades, because they just don't deliver!!!!!

They rather spend money to keep there stockholders happy and don't spend it to proper Research and Development.

Instead of upgrading all the time we kept on working!

[Jeff_Know1]

squarepixelllc wrote:

[...] But if you are making a living in this very technical field and not updating every year or so then you are not really working much in the field.

Professionals do not upgrade right away. They test to see if everything is compatible first and doesn't break anything. Professionals have a workflow. Not the need for the latest bells and whistles. 

squarepixelllc wrote:

I spend more than the fee on adobe software than I pay for the cloud.
[...]
If you cant afford 50 bucks a month then you could not afford the newest CS# anyway's

Sigh, you have completely missed our points. Go read this thread again. Most of us complaining were already giving Adobe a lot of money over the years.

squarepixelllc wrote:
Three times more bitebiter? Do you know how much the master collection cost? Just silly. Maybe Adobe should just give it away for free.

Adobe is forcing the 'Master collection' upon us with this subscription. Who the hell uses all of them anyway?

This is a scam just made to look like you are getting a 'deal'. And at the end of it all you leave with nothing to open your files with. It's unacceptable.

Edit: seems like other people are faster writers.

[squarepixelllc]

Sure I am a super top secret spy for Adobe... Lol, really??!?

Any real construction professional, including painters, do constantly update there tools to stay competitive and to make there job easier. I know that from 15 years working construction before I went to school for design.

And to not drag out a pointless conversation. As a business owner, if I had a client that was cheap, only wanted pay for my services once every few years, didn't trust me, I am pretty sure he would not be my target customer. Maybe that's why your arguments fall on deaf ears.

So I am done with this conversation. You should find an alternative that values you more and burn your Adobe software (funny though if you only buy software every few years CS6 should last you for at least a few more years since you don't need those pesky worthless updates)

Oh ya, and they are forcing you to buy the master collection? Or I guess you could just buy the license for the cloud for just the software you want, if you would have read the actual options.

Remember, winning an argument online is like winning a race in the the special Olympics. You may win.....

[BITESBITER]

Name some essential updates that make you more competitive then others!

The tools are only tools. It all depends on how you use them.

Most of the upgrades are gimmicks/hypes no real innovation.

Our upgrades that are really delivering some innovation  come from 3th party developers not Adobe!

To name a couple: Red Giant, Videocopilot,  Projectseven, Webassist, Astudegraphics, Vertus Fluid Mask  and the list go's on.

And they even work in a earlier CS version then we use.

But I'm starting to repeat my self.

[squarepixelllc]

DPS tools for InDesign, smart blurs on smart objects, blur gallery, digital publishing suite, phonegap support, muse and parallax websites, better support for non destructive workflow in photoshop.

The list would go on, but somehow I don't feel it would make a difference to you. I make my living with these tools, and I welcome the updates. 

[Andy_Bay]

DPS tools for InDesign, smart blurs on smart objects, blur gallery, digital publishing suite, phonegap support, muse and parallax websites, better support for non destructive workflow in photoshop.

The list would go on, but somehow I don't feel it would make a difference to you. I make my living with these tools, and I welcome the updates.

And which one of these features allows you to create something for the client that wasn't possible already years ago? Try a bit harder please.

[BITESBITER]

We are using Magplus (for digital publishing) that was around at the end of CS4 just to name one of the 20.

You don't need Adobe for Phonegap!

And the rest can be done by using the different programs from the "Master Collection" and some plugins. We switch from program all the time backwards and forwards.

Muse is a disaster for  people who don't want to study any code! We used it and are not impressed.

[squarepixelllc]

Yayyyy you guys win! Lol, I am sure Adobe will be caving to your request any day now, just hold your breath. . . .

[rosequill]

When you don't think you need that client who only updates every 3 years, and piss him off and he goes elsewhere, what you have you done to your business? It is absurd to think that offering people a choice regarding boxed software would in any way HURT Adobe. This isn't even a matter of updating. You apparently have not considered some of the repercussions other people have mentioned in this thread, including the fact that moving to the cloud absolutely locks you into the cloud as you're going to require that software to even open your files.

Adobe could easily make the people who are concerned happy, and keep them as customers, but instead it is telling them to piss off. Adobe deserves whatever happens to it as a company.

[Andy_Bay]

Yayyyy you guys win! Lol, I am sure Adobe will be caving to your request any day now, just hold your breath. . . .

You cave in pretty easily. Seems like you have to admit there has been no such new features that would allow us to create significantly better end results for our customers.

I am not holding my breath. I'm very skeptical about Adobe changing it's course too. Unless the stock price sinks enough of course.

I simply will not rent my tools. What I will do instead is embrace the alternatives for Adobe software.

[Jeff_Know1]

squarepixelllc wrote:
Oh ya, and they are forcing you to buy the master collection? Or I guess you could just buy the license for the cloud for just the software you want, if you would have read the actual options.

Subscribe to three products and it will be more expensive than the entire subscription model. But once again, the real issue is you leave with nothing to open your files with.

You can't leave because you will lose access to all programs and can't continue to work. And yes, at the moment most companies will still have a recent perpetual license to fall back on (CS5/CS6)... But that is going to change so fast with this subscription system.

You will be forever chained to whatever crazy scheme Adobe comes up with next. You would do that as a business?

squarepixelllc wrote:

As a business owner, if I had a client that was cheap, only wanted pay for my services once every few years, didn't trust me, I am pretty sure he would not be my target customer. Maybe that's why your arguments fall on deaf ears.

You seem to have no idea what we are complaining about. Just no idea whatsoever. Amazing.

Of course we don't trust Adobe. We have been around long enough. That's why we don't want to chain ourselves to them forever. I would still upgrade and use the software if it is of value to me. But now it's different. Join the Cloud and you cannot leave. Ever.

If I have a perpetual license and Adobe does something I don't agree with in the future. Well... I know I can still use the current version to work with, and our clients depend on that. We can't just say: "Sorry, I'm not able to open up your project anymore". With the Cloud only subscription that safety net will be gone. *POOF*.

DPS tools for InDesign, smart blurs on smart objects, blur gallery, digital publishing suite, [...], better support for non destructive workflow in photoshop.

[...] and I welcome the updates.

We all update our tools once in a while, and we all welcome the updates. That's not the bloody point! Have you actually read this thread at all?

[squarepixelllc]

If you are really updating with every other new version the cost is close to the same.  Or buy cs6 and wait for a few years to decide, no one is forcing you to buy cc. Or just go with the alternative to Adobe, pretty simple. It's only 50 a month, for a lot of tools, I update every version so for me I get more tools cheaper this way. The only way it's not cheaper is if you wait 3 versions, then just buy cs6. You still have that option!

[BITESBITER]

No it's not!

And more important  in case of a financial problem your cut off the software and that makes the problem even worse to get out of the problem.

But of course that will never happen to you!

Do you realize what financial crisis we are in now!?

[squarepixelllc]

No it won't!

[Andy_Bay]

Please tell me what math you are using claiming that it's cheaper!

The cost from upgrading from CS4 Master Collection to CS5 Master Collection was 899 $. You would pay that upgrade price on average every two years (the upgrade cycle). Now you pay 1200 $ every two years. And in the end you are left with empty hands.

Now that is the best case scenario! Imagine someone who was using Design Premium and skipping every other upgrade. The price increase for those people is really really ridiculous.

Please elaborate a bit more on your math.