[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

Lee Jay wrote:

if you stop paying you stop getting updates, but the version you have now keeps working.  If you want to start getting updates again, you have to pay some period of back-maintenance to get back on the plan, but in all cases, your licence for the version you have now is perpetual.

Funnily enough, that sounds very much like one of the suggestions I made too.  Whether it'll happen.....

Sounds like they're sending out surveys to quite a lot of customers now too.  But whatever they do will take time, so just because they haven't given a final response yet doesn't mean they're not going to.  Even changing a mistake on a webpage takes days instead of minutes in a company this big.  They'll need to think it through properly, and likely run through numerous committees and meetings. They only really have one shot at 'fixing' this.

[W_J_T]

Victoria Bampton wrote:

Sounds like they're sending out surveys to quite a lot of customers now too.

A controlled survey vs an open survey offered for anyone with concerns to participate, fitting for Adobe's inept approach to the matter.

If anyone posting in this thread receives "said" survey please post that you were contacted, it would be interesting to know.

Victoria Bampton wrote:

But whatever they do will take time...  Even changing a mistake on a webpage takes days instead of minutes in a company this big.  They'll need to think it through properly...

Here is a recent instance by "staff" that didn't seem very thought out properly and thus was retracted and changed concerning a comment regarding the Cloud Connection failure mess:

One example from many of the same posts made in multiple threads ALL now changed by staff to different wording after being quoted:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5357598

Original as I quoted:

Vikrant Rai (Staff) wrote:

It recently graduated from preview status, which is essentially a Beta.

Altered / Modified / Reworded -- after I used it to point out paying customers were paying for an advertised feature that was beta and failed, it was changed in ALL threads.

Vikrant Rai (Staff) wrote:

It recently graduated from preview status, which is was similar to beta.

So I guess customer concerns take time, but the PR, marketing, propaganda and the spin machine works rather quickly for Adobe's agenda.

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

W_J_T wrote:

So I guess customer concerns take time, but the PR, marketing, propaganda and the spin machine works rather quickly for Adobe's agenda.

Staff forum posts are quick and easy for the staff member to change/clarify/update. IMHO that statement could be read multiple ways, depending on how one wanted to read it. But staff can't comment on customer concerns - only the board can do that.

Official statements and the main website take time. They'll need to make them as clear and as closed to interpretation as possible from the outset.

[W_J_T]

Victoria Bampton wrote:

Staff forum posts are quick and easy for the staff member to change/clarify/update. IMHO that statement could be read multiple ways, depending on how one wanted to read it. But staff can't comment on customer concerns - only the board can do that.

Kind of peculiar then why the need for staff to alter and change it? Seems like they thought the original wording was too clear concerning it being beta.

Victoria Bampton wrote:

Official statements and the main website take time. They'll need to make them as clear and as closed to interpretation as possible from the outset.

I am sure the legal team is yes busy, Adobe has over a years worth of mess and a lot of dissatisfied customers to deal with.

[bababongatwo]

They didn´t wait with throwing that BS into our feeding bowls.
No warning. Nothing.

So we have to wait now?
I think my MC CS6 will be good for the next 1-3 years.
Cash Cow (CC) is unacceptable.

There were 4 week to give an response (or say anything - that article on CNET = nothing). Nothing happend.

The creation of workflows & infrastructures based on alternative solutions takes time tr be build, learned and established. Filetransfers between my suppliers and clients have to be tested. Employees to be educated. I even hope that I will be done with that all, before my CS6 lcs. will be a no longer actual tools and the machines - holding them - quit working.
So my point was made two weeks after hearing nothing from Adobe as praying the same bushwah again and again and again. Explaining that there is no problem and that a "few" users are not ready for that "Cash Cow".

They even will do nothing in the main facts - They wait till concerns wil be quiet, They have a look at their stock-Rates and at the end of 2013, when there are no bonuses any longer for the old long-time users, they can see if had been working. Then they know how many Cloudies they have bend. That´s their strategy. From that point on the amount of Cloudies dictates the fee prices. Until real competitors have developed or rised.
May be, they will change something for the Hobbyists and Enthusiasts in PS (as they are totaly pi..ed of - voices at these blogs are horrible against Cash Cow) - as they are a big part of income. But they will never ever change the main lacks - missing file access/buy-out after sub. or the take on or all poiltics.

So, from my side, they can wait with their answer as long as they want.
I´m done with them.

[bababongatwo]

BtW: Answering the enormous concerns all over with "...there are a few users, who are not ready for Cash Cow (CC) cloud" isn´t a good strategy/tone to mollify the corresponding target group. And although not based on truth.

[TheCoroner9]

bababongatwo wrote:

They even will do nothing in the main facts - They wait till concerns wil be quiet, They have a look at their stock-Rates and at the end of 2013, when there are no bonuses any longer for the old long-time users, they can see if had been working. Then they know how many Cloudies they have bend. That´s their strategy. From that point on the amount of Cloudies dictates the fee prices. Until real competitors have developed or rised.
May be, they will change something for the Hobbyists and Enthusiasts in PS (as they are totaly pi..ed of - foices at these blogs are horrible against Cash Cow) - as they are a big part of income. But they will never ever change the main lacks - missing file access/buy-out after sub. or the take on or all poiltics.

So, from my side, they can wait with their answer as long as say want.
I´m done with them.

They are banking on people bending and giving in to Cash Cow. Not going to happen.

For many Adobe has simply ceased to exist with CC's release.

Hear that sound in the wind - that's $ being sucked out of Adobe.

[FastFeet]

Victoria Bampton schrieb:

Sounds like they're sending out surveys to quite a lot of customers now too.  But whatever they do will take time, so just because they haven't given a final response yet doesn't mean they're not going to.  Even changing a mistake on a webpage takes days instead of minutes in a company this big.  They'll need to think it through properly, and likely run through numerous committees and meetings. They only really have one shot at 'fixing' this.

Victoria, your comment seems sound, but if you are thinking more deeply about it it sounds like that the board has very bad advisers or is even more stupid than what the general subscription only decision assumes. Since the subscription only model was planned already for quite a while a proper planning of a change of that magnitude would imply to have a fall back strategy in place that you would apply in the worst case when things don't work out as planned. Apparently Adobe has none of that. Also, if a large base of customers show such fierce reaction it is really bad not to address them properly for a month. They didn’t need to make a solution statement immediately, but they should have acknowledged the fierce reaction and unhappiness of their customers, said that are planning to address the customer needs and that they will publish changes before CC will hit the market on June 17^th.

Adobe just did the opposite. They have been stating multiple times in different wordings that it is their way or the highway and that they don’t care for their customers. This message was well understood. So I think, too, it is time to move on, let Adobe be behind us and stop posting on this board. It is much better to bust the marketing lies everywhere else. As long as people are furious and complaining they still care. When they stop complaining, they won’t care anymore. This is actually the worst that can happen for Adobe and its employees.

[Paul_Taylor]

Just chatted to someone who actually does online software updates. The whole cocept that they cannot separate out versions and thus allow users to purchase separate perpetual licenses for those versions, while maintaining bug fixes for each version is (IMHO) highly spurious.

[W_J_T]

Paul_Taylor wrote:

Just chatted to someone who actually does online software updates. The whole cocept that they cannot separate out versions and thus allow users to purchase separate perpetual licenses for those versions, while maintaining bug fixes for each version is (IMHO) highly spuriousd

Of course.

I have plenty of software installed (as well as know of many others) that once payed for as perpetual software, I receive updates: stability, security... drum roll ... and yes even new features, and new versions. Adobe seems to be declaring new standards that don't exist to use as justification of what they are trying to market and sell. A lot of misguided verbiage as if they are trail blazing or coming up with something new that doesn't exist otherwise or if it does is being done wrong and their way is how it needs to be done. They are keen to claim this is the way it has to be, but the fact is any of those claims just don't hold truth with many examples to prove otherwise. The whole "brave new world" aspect of this model is just ridiculous, the only limitations that exist are the ones Adobe themselves are putting in place to benefit only them and create the closed model they desire for consumers.

[Greg_Bohn]

> the only limitations that exist are the ones Adobe themselves are  putting in place to benefit only them

> and create the closed model they  desire for consumers.

  There are so many future possibilities there... Let's say you could only buy plug-ins through their "Plug-In store". Or, as someone has already mentioned, a "micro-payment" system where you pay by actual usage of a feature.

  And surely they could only allow certain features to function based on your subscription "level".

  The possibilities are almost endless... If they believed people would accept it.

[jbjones]

W_J_T wrote:

Paul_Taylor wrote:

Just chatted to someone who actually does online software updates. The whole cocept that they cannot separate out versions and thus allow users to purchase separate perpetual licenses for those versions, while maintaining bug fixes for each version is (IMHO) highly spuriousd

Of course.

I have plenty of software installed (as well as know of many others) that once payed for as perpetual software, I receive updates: stability, security... drum roll ... and yes even new features, and new versions. Adobe seems to be declaring new standards that don't exist to use as justification of what they are trying to market and sell. A lot of misguided verbiage as if they are trail blazing or coming up with something new that doesn't exist otherwise or if it does is being done wrong and their way is how it needs to be done. They are keen to claim this is the way it has to be, but the fact is any of those claims just don't hold truth with many examples to prove otherwise. The whole "brave new world" aspect of this model is just ridiculous, the only limitations that exist are the ones Adobe themselves are putting in place to benefit only them and create the closed model they desire for consumers.

My sentiments exactly.

[Greg_Bohn]

> But whatever they do will take time, so just because they haven't given a final response yet doesn't

> mean they're not going to

  So how does that square with the recent Public statement from Adobe (seen at http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57586521-92/dislike-adobes-creative-cloud-subscriptions-tough-beans... )?

  The articles lead paragraph is "Adobe will adjust its subscription plans to appeal better to photo  hobbyists, but it won't restore what many critics want -- an option to  buy perpetual licenses to new versions of its software.".

[Mike_Ornellas]

with every lock, there is a key. Adobe shall supply both. It's only a matter of time to figure out how to get in.

[AnnShelbourne]

If Adobe fail to offer "Safe Exit Parachutes from the Cloud", they are going to experience that Severe Sucking Sound as previous customers flee from their software.

I am amazed that Adobe didn't realise that this was going to be a major issue (even bigger than the perceived increased costs of keeping one's software current!) before they announced the Cloud.

A policy of knowingly and wilfully jettisoning perhaps 60% of Adobe's hard-won and painstakingly-built existing Customer base; and acknowledging that they don't expect to regain parity with current numbers for about four years; seems incomprehensible to me.

The lack of any provision for  "Safe Exit Parachutes from the Cloud" IS the "Elephant in the Room" …

but perhaps the Corner Office hasn't seen, or smelled, the animal yet?

[jbjones]

Under normal software licenses you are paying once for programming work previously done (plus a few future bug fixes that they didn't catch before release). Then as the programmers work to add new features you pay for those.

With Adobe's new cloud model they are wanting everyone to switch to a royalty based model where you to pay continually for use of the software. If they create updates you get those automatically, but if they don't create updates you still have to keep paying to use the software.

[Greg_Bohn]

> With Adobe's new cloud model they are wanting everyone to switch to a  royalty based model

> where you to pay continually for use of the  software.

  Which is why it is a great thing for Adobe... And the removal of the perpetual option is meant to make it substantially harder to leave if you ever chose to do so.

  I've seen people claiming that the new model will be great because the new extra profits will subsidize new development. (I guess paying in advance for future features) That somehow the perpetual model was responsible for Adobe not fixing more bugs, or having faster releases, or adding new features in the past.

  Poor Adobe. I don't know how they ever rose to a position of market dominance saddled with such a heavy burden .

  Personally I don't buy it. I think new profits would be more likely to subsidize larger yachts than additional development...

[Biggles_Lamb]

Greg

You are so sceptical.....................................but correct.

[CarlosCanto]

Greg Bohn wrote:

  I've seen people claiming that the new model will be great because the new extra profits will subsidize new development.  That somehow the perpetual model was responsible for Adobe not fixing more bugs, or having faster releases, or adding new features in the past.

  Personally I don't buy it. I think new profits would be more likely to subsidize larger yachts than additional development...

right on it Greg, apparently there wasn't enough budget for "useful" features or long living bug fixes in the previous releases

Fiscal year     Revenue

2012     $4.404 billion

2011     $4.216 billion

2010     $3.800 billion

is there really a need for a steady "cash flow"?

[W_J_T]

"Paying sets you free"

That's probably what the message says above the gate at Adobe's corporate campus.

----------

Adobe Systems Incorporated: Eliminate the mandatory "creative cloud" subscription model.

https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-s...

Eliminate the "mandatory" Creative Cloud subscription model

https://www.facebook.com/NoMandatoryCreativeCloud

[bababongatwo]

" Personally I don't buy it. I think new profits would be more likely to subsidize larger yachts than additional development..."
LOL.
What else ever?

- - - - - - - - - - -

CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the Word "Archive" in the digital future = lifelong dependency = Never!

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

Greg Bohn wrote:

> But whatever they do will take time, so just because they haven't given a final response yet doesn't mean they're not going to

So how does that square with the recent Public statement from Adobe (seen at http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57586521-92/dislike-adobes-creative-c loud-subscriptions-tough-beans/ )?

The two don't contradict each other. They've said (in that link) they're not going back. But they haven't yet given a final response about any possible compromises that may be on the table.  The latter will take time.

[JimGoshorn]

What I suggested is for Adobe to offer packages with X number of apps/services per package so that the user could select how many they need and mix and match accordingly. If you don't want cloud features (web sites, portfolio, community reviews, storage/sharing etc.), then select all apps or you can select some of each. One size fits all just isn't practical for many people.

Jim

[Greg_Bohn]

Victoria Bampton wrote:

Greg Bohn wrote:

> But whatever they do will take time, so just because they haven't given a final response yet doesn't mean they're not going to

So how does that square with the recent Public statement from Adobe (seen at http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57586521-92/dislike-adobes-creative-c loud-subscriptions-tough-beans/ )?

The two don't contradict each other. They've said (in that link) they're not going back. But they haven't yet given a final response about any possible compromises that may be on the table.  The latter will take time.

I guess I'm still confused as to how these don't contradict each other. I thought you were talking about a "compromise" where there would be an option to leave with a perpetual license after some period of time. But the article says no "perpetual licenses".

  So, I guess you are saying that the form of perpetual license for this hypothetical "compromise" you are referring to is not the same as the "perpetual license" he was talking about  (Even though they are both a perpetual license).

[CarlosCanto]

a lot of suggestions have been provided plus they are considering a number of options...since their "job is to delight their customers with innovation", I'm sure they'll delight us once again with another innovative compromise shortly.