[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[jbjones]

pik80.  Clarify who you are talking to. Your intro sounds like you are replying to me about Ken's statement being perfectly fine. But the content implies that you agree with LAArtJunky (as did I).

[pik80]

Yes, I agree with LARTjunky. My statement was referring to products like IE that used to put out major new versions each year (95-2001) and then just stopped for a long time after they dominated that field. After Windows 95 came out they just kept repackaging that same product under different names and yet still charged $100 for products even though they didn't have any new features in them. CC similairly also discourages competion just like MS did with their products and will lead to Adobe not putting out as good of updates. When you think about it this makes perfect financial sense. If people are going to keep sending you money any additional spending on product development will just come as a loss for them. CC isn't just expensive it is bad for competition.

[toxic_waltz]

It's very clear to me what Abobe is doing. They are in trouble because their software is pretty much the main player for about 85% of the imaging software out there. They have the market cornered and they felt the need to grab control of their product through locking it up in a subscription. Why?  Because you can do your job with what we currently obsess.  - The bloat, boat, is afloat, ideology.

So NOW, they offer their NEW MARKET users to subscribe to more frequent updates ( FORCED UPDATES ), charge you more money, and control your imaging future like a crack pimp in control of a small 3rd World country. This pretty much means disaster for both software manufacture and user. Technically and economically, I get the Adobe Cloud concept, but this just cuts too deep without understanding what we are operating on. Because of this decision, it shall ruin some businesses to the point of non existence, let alone the millions of freelancers that use said product FOR the corporations they surve = Ultimately, ADOBE.  At this point, Adobe does not understand, know, or care about their users and the markets they drive. It's like the ultimate slap on the forehead of WTF are you guys doing? This affects all business, not just Adobe - directly or indirectly.

The ideology makes sense, the implementation of Creative Cloud is far less  understood by its creator, due to the lack of understanding its user base. ALL OF THE BASE, OF ALL GRAPHIC RELATED INDUSTRIES - GLOBALLY are going to be affected, and pretty much  WILL piss EVERYONE off to the point of change in the direction not favorable for Abobe. The current and soon to be X CEO is not qualified to pull the trigger on this decision and will be removed for this indiscretion soon.  - Regardless of the clouds success.

Unfortunately, money is the driving force and not good business practices for the longevity of Abobe as a single entity.  Balance is key in every business decision, but all I see is lack of understanding. I used to work for HP, and understand how destructive a company can get once too big and guided by fools who don't know their job.

Even the CEO did a HUGE cash out two months ago. Folks, this is business, yeah I get that, but dude, if you want to play with fire, you need to stay in the kitchen and understand what you are cooking... Clearly, Adobe is trying to change, with little understanding what they are trying to change. My vote is for regime change. This is truly sad. Adobe does not understand the Cloud decision, implementation, and end results.  I in all sincerity, hope Adobe does not fail, but all signs lead to a melt down in the true sense.

Damn if you do and damn if you don't Adobe, but do it with class and market understanding. All that Adobe is doing  is destroying Adobe and all family related businesses. We as users will pay, but even a hooker will kiss you if you pay them enough.

Give the users perpetural versions buy gouging them there, not cut your own throat and cut off your future users.

Adobe is currently selling seats on the Titanic perfection package, yet they can't divorce their decisions between the understanding of what a cloud is for them vs. making money.

Thoughts?

[Butch_M]

Ken G. Rice wrote:

Be polite and focused in your criticism. That will have more impact.

As if anyone concerned really believes or pays any real attention to anything stated here ... positive or negative ... or that these comments have any real impact or will change the course Adobe has chosen to take.

The decision has been made ... Adobe has indicated quite distinctly that CC is their future, the only future and can't be bothered by any distractions along the way ... so the only recourse for those who do not wish to hop aboard the merry-go-round of perpetual payment only have one choice ... ride out their current version of apps ... then look for alternative solutions.

I for one think it will be the wiser move ... as I refuse to throw good money after bad in a losing effort ...

After 20 years of supporting Adobe, and assisting in creating this one-sided monopolistic monster ... I no longer think it a sound business decision to contribute further ... even if they succumb to pressure and issue a mega mea culpa and offer a compromise ... because they'll just turn around and pull an even more intrusive and devastating blunder in the future if it is their best interests.

I was a very successful photographer for 18 years before I started to use Adobe software in my daily workflow ... I firmly believe I can continue on without Adobe's assistance in the future ... if I fail, let it be on my own merits and not let some multi-billion dollar corporation dictate my decisions for me. I'd rather end up in bankruptcy court using iPhoto or Google Picassa than to be held prisoner to a monthly stipend to Adobe from here to eternity. No matter what the cool kids are doing.

[LouNettel]

I agree...I will not be held hostage!!! Long live alternatives!!

Lou Nettelhorst

http://www.LouNettelhorst.com

http://www.facebook.com/LouNettelhorst

Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone

[LouNettel]

I say use CS6 until a competitor steps up and we can jump ship to stop being held hostage!!

Lou Nettelhorst

http://www.LouNettelhorst.com

http://www.facebook.com/LouNettelhorst

Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone

[Paul_Taylor]

I wonder how many of the 'happy' CC users that are being banded about in Adobes marketing are, like us, ones that thought OK -  let's upgrade to CS6 to be ready for CS7, and while were are at it, take a look a the products in the CC that are not avaialble via CS6 while the 'introductiory CC price offer' was on?

...and now the penny has dropped!

It's clear that the 'Captured Customer' policy has been a long time in the planning, putting those new products out of reach to all but those paying for CC subscriptions was the clear start, and 'forcing', 'enticing' (call it what you want) Creative Suite users onto the Cloud was the taste of things to come.

Having been (IMHO) mislead over the reason to upgrade, and now been told that that purchased upgraded product has no future, really hammers home that current and future announcements from Adobe have no value or integrity for users.

All our collegues, sub contractors, charities we work for and print suppliers we have spoken to, are all looking to do the same. 

Drop the CC, use CS6 and switch to alteratives. Unless Adobe bring perpetual licenses to Cloud versions.

[Andy_Bay]

Anyone reading the news about PRISM and US government freely accessing cloud servers of corporate giants?

The rest of the world must be really enthusiastic to move their business secrets to Adobes servers after this!

Another good reason why I will never keep my main computer connected to the internet.

[Brntoki]

Two things:

One, I just realized something. Since I am on CS5, if I were interested in the CC (i.e., if I were braindead or had limitless amounts of cash) I would realistically not only have to start ponying up for the subscription, but get an upgrade to CS6 at the same time! How messed up is that?

Two, how long does everyone predict it will take for a big announcement from Adobe that includes the phrase, " . . . in an effort to regain the trust of our customers . . ."?

6 months or less?

7 months to a year?

2 or 3 years?

[joe_bloe_premiere]

how long does everyone predict it will take for a big announcement from Adobe that includes the phrase, " . . . in an effort to regain the trust of our customers . . ."?

For what it's worth...

Post #965 - Todd_Kopriva - Jun 7, 2013 6:19 PM:

"I suggest holding tight until June 17th. The release of the

CC versions will come with updates about various other

things that have been talked about here."

[bitm07]

Brntoki

You can upgrade to CC from CS3 onwards

[Greg_Bohn]

Who knows what this is about, but It will be interesting to see what they have in store (and if it makes any worthwhile change's).

But, unlikely as it seems, let's say they completely restored a perpetual option and it was even at a reasonable price.

  Wouldn't that still be a bit like being taken advantage of by your bank, and then the bank decides they aren't going to gouge you so much after all?.

  You'd still have to sleep with one eye open wondering what's next ...

[joe_bloe_premiere]

I think what a lot of folks might be happy with is what has been

repeatedly suggested in that thread in the Video Lounge...

an exit strategy.

Post #896 by Todd_Kopriva affirms that there will still be

incremental "CC Versions", which could be a good signpost

for users to "jump ship" with the current feature set.

[toxic_waltz]

If Microsfot and Apple make operating systems work with CS6 for lets say 7 years, they could effectily TAKE DOWN Adobe. Sounds like a plan to me.

[Brntoki]

bitm07 wrote:

Brntoki

You can upgrade to CC from CS3 onwards

No. I understand I don't really have to buy an upgrade per se, but if files created with CC can only be safely exported to CS6, then It'd be stupid to jump into the cloud without that parachute. I'm sure almost everything would work with CS5 currently, but in a year or two, with newer features, that would not be a safe bet.

[DanZemke]

2011 - Photoshop CS3 or later licensees must upgrade to CS5 by year end or lose their ability to upgrade to CS6. 

        I paid for my upgrade to CS5 in November of 2011, solely to protect my upgrade "rights".

2012 - January, Adobe announced that CS3 or later licensees would need to upgrade to CS6 in order to preserve their upgrade "rights".

        There was no refund process for those of us that wasted our money by recently upgrading to CS5.

2013 - May, Adobe announced that they were focused on the Creative Cloud and declared all upgrade "rights" are null and void.

Cloud computing is a trap, warns GNU founder Richard Stallman

Dan

[Butch_M]

bitm07 wrote:

Brntoki

You can upgrade to CC from CS3 onwards

No one actually "upgrades" to CC ... you simply sign up for the subscription ... no ownership of prior licenses required ...

What they are doing is offering a discount for the first year to license holders of CS3-CS6 ...

[bitm07]

True, but Adobe still calls it an upgrade on their UK site

http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/special-offers.html

[Butch_M]

Purely a matter of semantics.

[bitm07]

Wikipedia States

Upgrading is the process of replacing a product with a newer version of the same product. In computing and consumer electronics an upgrade is generally a replacement of hardware, software or firmware with a newer or better version, in order to bring the system up to date or to improve its characteristics.

Adode has improved the characteristics of Photoshop CS6, with the introduction in CC of dozens of new or improved features (ARC 8, new smart sharpen, camera shake reduction, intelligent resampling etc).  So I can definitely see how Adobe can justify calling it an upgrade.  Sadly these features can only be obtained via a method that is totally unacceptable to me and many of us.

[Paul_Taylor]

Butch_M wrote:

bitm07 wrote:

Brntoki

You can upgrade to CC from CS3 onwards

No one actually "upgrades" to CC ... you simply sign up for the subscription ... no ownership of prior licenses required ...

What they are doing is offering a discount for the first year to license holders of CS3-CS6 ...

Be careful. Any mention of an upgrade usually means transfer of license to the new product. All those who sign up under the 'upgrade' banner run the potential risk of signing away their licenses.

[FastFeet]

MikeChambers schrieb:

We haven't said that we "cannot" do perpetual, we have said that given that we believe the right direction for the future is around the Creative Cloud model, we are going to focus on making that a sucess. Focus being the key word. We could do 50 million things, but we have decide to focus on the thing which we think is the most important for the future.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Mike, you and Adobe are trying to tell us conctanly that you technically can't create perpetual licenses, because of your cloud focus, but this is wrong. I really beg you to stop telling those lies. You are Adobe staff. You should not lie to your customers and that way I really can't take you serious anymore.

My apps from CC won't stop working, because of technical issues in your cloud vision, they will stop working because I stop paying. It is your code that doesn't just stops the upgrades, but also the launching of an app. There are many easy ways to technically offer perpetual licenses as many people said on the forum and else on the Internet. Mike, please don't take us for fools!

[MikeChambers]

Marcus Koch wrote:

MikeChambers schrieb:

We haven't said that we "cannot" do perpetual, we have said that given that we believe the right direction for the future is around the Creative Cloud model, we are going to focus on making that a sucess. Focus being the key word. We could do 50 million things, but we have decide to focus on the thing which we think is the most important for the future.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Mike, you and Adobe are trying to tell us conctanly that you technically can't create perpetual licenses,

Please read my comment, which you quoted:

"We haven't said that we "cannot" do perpetual, we have said that given that we believe the right direction for the future is around the Creative Cloud model, we are going to focus on making that a sucess."

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

[Cankre7]

With all this back and forth, Mike…Just who does this direction Adobe is taking benefit?

Print Providers are loathe to embrace this direction. We cannot afford ANY chance of downtime due to deadlines for print collateral. We cannot lose downtime because an update screws with our complicated workflow that drive to many devices. We NEED to have control over our and our customers files at any given time. The industry is just too competitive.

Designers? Well if the Print Providers do not embrace it, how will the designers get printed all their nifty CC projects?

I am just trying to figure out who the Cloud benefits?

[MikeChambers]

Cankre7 wrote:

Print Providers are loathe to embrace this direction. We cannot afford ANY chance of downtime due to deadlines for print collateral. We cannot lose downtime because an update screws with our complicated workflow that drive to many devices. We NEED to have control over our and our customers files at any given time. The industry is just too competitive.

You can chose when and if you apply updates, and you have control over your files ALL of the time.

Both of these concerns are addressed in the FAQ:

http://www.adobe.com/go/cc_faq

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com