[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[Mike_Ornellas]

The huge problem I see with the new cloud idiotology is that you don't have a fall back application to go to if the most current build is screwed up in some way for your work environment.

The software has to be perfect every time which is a tall order. Adobe just put the rope around their neck...

[MikeChambers]

Mike Ornellas wrote:

The huge problem I see with the new cloud idiotology is that you don't have a fall back application to go to if the most current build is screwed up in some way for your work environment.

The software has to be perfect every time which is a tall order. Adobe just put the rope around their neck...

You don't have to apply updates, and if you need to go back to an older version, we make archived versions avaiable (beginning with CS6).

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

[Mike_Ornellas]

That's good to know Mike. Congrats on that decision. I just hope its well publicized for users to be aware of.  I really hope you guys have thought A LOT about all the contigencies that are going to challenge your new model.

[SoilentGreen]

MikeChambers:

I want to be clear that I am not trying to convince you, or anyone else that Creative Cloud is the best model for you.

Obviously, there is no need to convince, as now there is only one model... Take it or leave it.

======================================

Mike,  you mentioned in a previous post about future applications for cloud processing.  I'm guessing doing heavy lifting such as passing off video files to a rack of servers at Adobe HQ, where a video that may take you 8 hours to render on your desktop,  may only take 30 minutes for Adobe's equipment to render, then you're provided with a link to download your finished video...  Or something like that?

While this sounds great,  why could/would this functionality not be built into perpetual license software,  then if I wanted to leverage Adobe's massive processing beast in the cloud, I could pay,  say per incident at an inflated rate, something like $5 for a whole day's worth of "Cloud",  or sign up for the CC if I so chose?   If I was the type who could wait 8 hours for a video to render, and didn't need the extra horsepower,  why should I have to pay for it,  along with all of the other software I won't be using?

[Biggles_Lamb]

Ken G. Rice wrote:

No individual or company can predict the future. Adobe believes in the decision it has made with the Creative Cloud. As Mike has already pointed out we could be wrong. It is easy to list the pros and cons over and over. We still cannnot predict what will happen.

As to problems and issues raised in this forum and elsewhere, we work with the customers to resolve them.

OK I get that but if Adobe is not clairvoyant and cannot predict the future why then is it putting "all its eggs in one basket" as the saying goes and not continuing to offer choice to us, the users for 20 years.

Oh sorry, there is a choice CC, CS6 (bugs and all and no further development as far as we know) or another manufacturers product.

By the way the CC does not offer VALUE to existing customers, it is just a rip-off to maximise revenue, and a big gamble at that.

I do hope your jobs are safe, the way I see it is that there will be a surge of development and releases, then a slow and steady decline in updates to the core software whilst the minor software gets enhanced and yet will not be used much by the subscribers, then jobs will be shed as further developments and enhancements are harder to achieve

[W_J_T]

MikeChambers wrote:

You don't have to apply updates, and if you need to go back to an older version, we make archived versions avaiable (beginning with CS6).

Regardless of the reason for error or failure, this assumes a certain level of aptitude for subscribers however, with deadlines, daily job stress, etc., users decisions and reliance could prove costly being unaware of unforeseen occurrences within the cloud based system. Everything may seem fine until a issue arises and then if they do not have the technical aptitude what can they do to quickly resolve any issues they may encounter. Many users will be able to wade their way though the process but many competent software users and new users will perhaps be put in compromising positions without better knowledge of system related issues beyond the applications themselves. This holds true not just with updates, but with subscription malfunctions, etc.

[Mike_Ornellas]

To be honest, there is no way in hell will I allow or my companies allow trade secret or NDA materials be on an Adobe server. Though it sounds like a neat and convenient service, the majority of companies will balk at that cloud option. So if you start to force users to store data on the cloud, Adobe will die a quick death in intellectual property law suits.

There are so many things that ding the cloud logic.

[AnnShelbourne]

I think that you may be implying that Adobe are actually in a very weak financial position?

Are the reasons that Adobe is abandoning its traditional business model because there are serious underlying fissures and weaknesses in the Corporate structure; and even the possibility of impending corporate failure? And, are these issues being obscured by the way in which they are currently publishing their financials?

Abandoning a highly successful business model, which has resulted in astounding growth and the achievement of Global Market Dominance; and betting their entire future instead on a totally untested new business model; makes no sense whatsoever -- unless there were undisclosed circumstances and motives that drove this decision.

Perhaps the real reason for devising this Cloud-cuckoo Scheme has nothing to do with building Adobe's revenue stream (which from the current reactions of their existing customers, seems to be the diametrical opposite to what will actually occur!)?

Neither will the Cloud benefit their existing customers with advanced new Cloudbased "Services" (for which most frankly do not currently have any real need and probably can manage without for many years  yet to come).

It seems that the majority of us already clearly recognize Adobe's "Cloud Services"  to be undiluted Vapourware?!

Or is the Cloud in reality just a well-disguised and distinctly devious Scheme which was deliberately devised to cast a thick FOG over what is really happening within the Adobe corporation?

I feel desperately sorry for the wonderful and thoroughly loyal Adobe Employees who are being forced by Senior Corporate Management to utter these totally illogical,  and possibly not very honest, explanations for their Company's insane decision to continue to pursue this unwanted "By Subscription Only" policy when it is already patently obvious that the vast majority of their Customers are NOT intending to buy into the scheme.

[Mike_Ornellas]

It's crystal clear Ann what's going on here if you blow away the [profanity deleted] from the fog. Adobe is in trouble.

[AnnShelbourne]

Reading between the lines, that was exactly the conclusion which I was very sadly coming to too.

I do wonder at the integrity of those that are responsible for inflicting this Cloud on both the Company and its Customers.

I also question whether senior officers of the corporation may deliberately be  pursuing this suicidal venture in the hope that, when the Cloud/Fog lifts and the full extent of their ineptitude is revealed; and the stock-holders fire them; they can deploy and float away on obscenely massive Golden Parachutes.

[Lee_Jay]

MikeChambers wrote:

Mike Ornellas wrote:

The huge problem I see with the new cloud idiotology is that you don't have a fall back application to go to if the most current build is screwed up in some way for your work environment.

The software has to be perfect every time which is a tall order. Adobe just put the rope around their neck...

You don't have to apply updates, and if you need to go back to an older version, we make archived versions avaiable (beginning with CS6).

So, then what would we be getting for our forever monthly payments?  Why should I pay monthly for something I may not use for years?  Wouldn't you expect your electric bill to go down just a tad if you opened your main circut breaker and left it there?  Would you be annoyed if they kept sending you monthly bills?

[Brntoki]

MikeChambers wrote:

You don't have to apply updates, and if you need to go back to an older version, we make archived versions avaiable (beginning with CS6).

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

More Adobe Innovation!!!

So, your answer to one of the biggest problems with the Cloud is . . . "we'll offer to let force you to still pay exhorbitant prices, forever and ever, for not using any of the supposed advantages of what the CC offers. See!!! We are listening!"

Need we any more evidence that Adobe is completely off their rocker?

[Brntoki]

Ken G. Rice wrote:

. . . It is easy to list the pros and cons over and over."

Apparently it isn't easy at all. I have still not seen ONE pro for the Creative Cloud (that isn't on Adobe's side).

Every "pro" that has been listed for the consumer has to be stripped of its bigger context to fool people into thinking it might be a pro. There is not a single pro for the consumer in this! NOT ONE!!!!!!!

[FastFeet]

MikeChambers wrote:

Mike Ornellas wrote:

The huge problem I see with the new cloud idiotology is that you don't have a fall back application to go to if the most current build is screwed up in some way for your work environment.

The software has to be perfect every time which is a tall order. Adobe just put the rope around their neck...

You don't have to apply updates, and if you need to go back to an older version, we make archived versions avaiable (beginning with CS6).

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Mike, can you please clearify this? As fas as I understand from the current creative cloud and the application manager I can only download upgrades, but I can not revert back to an older version. InDesign or Photoshop have had updates with additional features since CS6 was introduced. There were also bug fixes. So one of those updates breaks my workflow. How can I go back to the previous version right now?

[urdaddi]

Marcus Koch wrote:

MikeChambers wrote:

Mike Ornellas wrote:

The huge problem I see with the new cloud idiotology is that you don't have a fall back application to go to if the most current build is screwed up in some way for your work environment.

The software has to be perfect every time which is a tall order. Adobe just put the rope around their neck...

You don't have to apply updates, and if you need to go back to an older version, we make archived versions avaiable (beginning with CS6).

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Mike, can you please clearify this? As fas as I understand from the current creative cloud and the application manager I can only download upgrades, but I can not revert back to an older version. InDesign or Photoshop have had updates with additional features since CS6 was introduced. There were also bug fixes. So one of those updates breaks my workflow. How can I go back to the previous version right now?

The answer to your question is right there in the post - (beginning with CS6).

[FastFeet]

urdaddi schrieb:

Marcus Koch wrote:

MikeChambers wrote:

You don't have to apply updates, and if you need to go back to an older version, we make archived versions avaiable (beginning with CS6).

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Mike, can you please clearify this? As fas as I understand from the current creative cloud and the application manager I can only download upgrades, but I can not revert back to an older version. InDesign or Photoshop have had updates with additional features since CS6 was introduced. There were also bug fixes. So one of those updates breaks my workflow. How can I go back to the previous version right now?

The answer to your question is right there in the post - (beginning with CS6).

urdaddi, I don't see the answer. Many CS6 perpetual apps are not the the same anymore as the CS6 creative cloud versions. There have been a few bugfixes and also feature updates to those versions. The Adobe Application Manager of CC only allows to download an update. You can't deinstall any updated version. You can deinstall teh whole app, but if you install it again you will get the latest version. So I don't see how I can go back to older versions. I'm not talking about going from CS6 back to earlier versions or going back from the upcoming CC to CS6. I'm really concerned about the interim versions. If an update breaks an important workflow how can I go back resp. deinstall the dot-x update? This is a major issue. According to the cloud terms you agree that Adobe can install updates without your knowledge.

Spending a lot of time reading and writing about the new CC I realize more and more that the perpetual license is not the only major problem. There are far more issues with the whole implementation, packaging and features of CC.

[Guest]

MikeChambers wrote:

We haven't said that we "cannot" do perpetual, we have said that given that we believe the right direction for the future is around the Creative Cloud model, we are going to focus on making that a sucess. Focus being the key word. We could do 50 million things, but we have decide to focus on the thing which we think is the most important for the future.

That seems to be a disengenous answer considering that we're not asking Adobe to focus on 50 million things.

Two - lets be clear. We are asking Adobe to focus on 2 not 50 million things.

Oh, by the way, when the guys in the corner offices are all done "fucusing" on the future that THEY think is important, they can fire half the people at Adobe...After all, if you don't actually have to offer anything new (having everyone trapped in their system), why do you need so many people developling new "bloat."

It's a PERFECT storm for the people the "fat cats."

[artjunky]

Those two comments got me banned from my other account? I didn't think they were all that sharp (no warning either). Sorry and I promiss to soften the message from here on out.

[Jeffrey_A_Wright]

LArtJunky/ArtJunky I still show your LArtJunky account as being enabled.  Perhaps try clearing your cache and cookies and then logging in again?  Alternatly you can try to login using a different web browser.

[Ken G. Rice]

@LAArtJunky - Your account is re-enabled for posting. Do not threaten people in this forum by saying: "...they can fire half the people at Adobe...". Being critical of Adobe and its decisions is fine. Be nice in this forum.

[Terrachild]

Ken, are you kidding me?

He didn't threaten anyone!

He said "they" (Adobe) "...could fire half the people...."

That is a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

Many of us feel that jacking up revenue and cutting back on personnel, for the purpose of raising profits, is what this whole thing is about.

You guys are actually disabling people for that?

[Ken G. Rice]

Be polite and focused in your criticism. That will have more impact.

[Danny_Michael]

Ken, you're out of control. He didn't threaten anyone. You should have your moderator status removed. You aren't ready for the responsibility.

[jbjones]

Ken G. Rice wrote:

@LAArtJunky - Your account is re-enabled for posting. Do not threaten people in this forum by saying: "...they can fire half the people at Adobe...". Being critical of Adobe and its decisions is fine. Be nice in this forum.

I think maybe you misread what he was saying. I read his comment along these lines:

After Adobe gets all customers on the subscription, Adobe managers would be able to fire half the programmers due to the fact that there is less pressure to create innovative feature bloat in order to attract upgraders.

In other words LAArtJunky had a convoluted way of implying that Adobe has little incentive to keep innovating once people are on subscription with no prepetual license fall back.

[pik80]

That is a perfectly resonable thing for him to say. Just look at Microsoft, once they dominated a field they would just stop developing a product once a competitor came along. Just look at Windows and Internet Explorer, both went for many years with vertially zero innovation. Making the statement that Adobe would do the same thing makes perfect sense, he is simply noticing what happened in history and coming to the logical conclusion that the same thing would happen at Adobe as well.