[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

Report · May 06, 2013

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

Report · Jun 21, 2013

John Wykes wrote:
I have decided not to go to CC. So you are happy with Quark? I have been looking for an alternative to InDesign.

Quark ist still good. Does a few things better than InDesign. Also it does a few things worse.

I my eyes it´s a little bit faster after all. May be InDesign has a greater Feature-List in the end.

But in the end there is nothing fundamental you will miss.

I use it for nearby 2 decades. And it´s absolutely professional.

Only thing is: You have to learn a little bit, when you come from InDesign.

The GUI and Functions are very different.

If you are looking for an alternative to InDesign: Yes, Quark is absolutely.

I like it.

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Thank you, bababongatwo, for your thoughts on Quark. Very helpful. I will certainly look into Quark.

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Hey John,

I'm working as a professional designer with QuarkXpress 9.5. I think 95% of the output of my design studio

is made with or has Quark as a PDF maker... PDF is always made with Distiller from Adobe... so I can keep control.

Afterwards I certified the PDf with Pitstop Pro from Enfocus.

InDesign is a great also but I miss the touch and feel of Quark... In CS6 Indesign works better than the previous versions.

In CS5 I had a feeling that Indesign was not working in 'real time'.... it seemed that InDesign was always 1ms behind every click...

In hope you'll understand....

I hate all the pallets and windows in InDesign... It gives me RSI.... In Quark the I use only shortcuts....

My son (age 14) works also in Quark to make his school projects. Learning him to use InDesign would be

more difficult. Quark's interface is sleek and easy to use... and to remember.

I'm looking forward to version 10 of Quark who will be released over a month or so...

Keep u posted about the new QuarkXpress....

Op 21 jun 2013, om 17:12 heeft John Wykes het volgende geschreven:

Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
created by John Wykes in Adobe Creative Cloud - View the full discussion
I have decided not to go to CC. So you are happy with Quark? I have been looking for an alternative to InDesign.
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Report · Jun 24, 2013

Here's a very interesting perspective on Adobe's latest earnings entitled: Adobe's Candy Coated Earnings Report

http://beta.fool.com/markhibben/2013/06/24/adobes-candy-coated-earnings-report/38244/?source=eogyhol...

Dan

Report · Jun 24, 2013

^ Nice find Dan! The opening paragraph says it all about Adobe's approach and tactics now days.

http://beta.fool.com/markhibben/2013/06/24/adobes-candy-coated-earning s-report/38244/?source=eogyho...
Until Adobe's (NASDAQ: ADBE) fiscal Q2 earnings were released last Tuesday, I had never before encountered a presentation so short on traditional financial metrics but long on invented metrics. It was as if Adobe's management wanted to distract investors from certain inconvenient truths.

Great article, thanks for posting.

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Yes, thanks to DanZemke for posting the link.

Telling, if only an opinion and interpretation of an easily spun corporate report, not subject to eyes and minds of customer employed forensic experts. So, no reasonable reason to challenge the report.

There are no . . . to my knowlege . . . any customer employed forensic accounting experts. Are there any?

Customers have no corporate say. They're not stockholders, and even then, probably not directors.

Looking darn close at Adobe is the job of the Security and Exchange Commission, and other federal agencies. Have any complaints . . . not online petitions . . . been filed?

We merely choose to buy a perpetual license to use the product(s) . . . which is no longer available even to the oldest Adobe customer . . . or pay cash cow perpetual rent with no right to perpetual use.

Bold and greedy move by Adobe. If they win . . . they change the industry, not just for thee and me . . . but for everybody who comes after.

Report · Jun 24, 2013

If there is a reputable customer organization hiring lawyers and accountants to take on Adobe, I'll donate.

I'm a retired military guy but will donate what I can. Just need a verified trustworthy link.

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Have any complaints . . . not online petitions . . . been filed?

I don't know about others, but I have already written to the european comission, here's their initial response:

Sir/Madam,
The Directorate-General for Competition has received your correspondence dated 2013-06-22 (Registration: 2013/064140), concerning the subject referred to above.
DG COMP Registry
if you have any question or problem, please contact the Registry at
comp-greffe-antitrust@ec.europa.eu for Antitrust

Report · Jun 24, 2013

From: Andy Bay

Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:40 AM

To: Kwan Parker

Subject: No perpetual licenses are you serious?

Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?

created by Andy Bay <http://forums.adobe.com/people/Andy+Bay> in Adobe Creative Cloud - View the full discussion <http://forums.adobe.com/message/5444012#5444012

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Really great emotion against Adobe . . . but what works are a team of lawyers taking them on.

Repeat question . . . is there a customer organization willing and able to take on Adobe?

Such as i can, I'll donate.

All unhappy long decades customers need is a link to fund the lawyers.

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Europe seems to take these business transactions more seriously than we do in the US.

I do wonder what we teach students in top tier US university business schools.

Meanwhile, while advocationg for immigration reform . . . meaning Adobe is an international and not an American company . . . they charge the rest of the world what the traffic cost . . . bribes . . . taxes . . . parties with hostesses . . . who knows?

With some understanding of cost across international borders . . . Adode management thinks their once only font and printer company is something immune to lawyers.

Any lawyers representing customers/investors you know about?

Have a link for contribution?

Report · Jun 24, 2013

A thousand plus messages in this thread.

Does anybody really believe Adobe cares? They're just waiting for the resistance to go hoarse, be quiet, and submit.

Or, leave.

Their actuaries have already figured that in.

RESIST the cloud.

Pretty much in this longest runing Adobe forum thread . . . everything has been said.

Only thing left is customer votes with their hard earned money.

A year from now . . . or there abouts . . . Adobe predators will know how well . . . or not . . . they ate the sheep.

Report · Jun 24, 2013

. . . everything has been said.

Almost everything...

Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen - Unnecessary Censorship

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Joe Bloe, how dare you make me laugh when I'm angry!!!

Report · Jun 24, 2013

So cool when he said . . . "Survival of the fitesrt."

Customers were not/are not fit to be more targets for Adobe profit reports to their directors/investors?

This long thread has been historical. Time has come to start abandoning Adobe software for alternatives.

Sadly, will take about a year or so for the alternatives to fully take advantage of Adobe's blunder.

For one, I can wait.

I still own a license for Creative Suite 6. No way I'm switching to the cloud . . . and a year from now I'm looking to real competing offers.

Screw short time offers from Corel and others. Make me a real offer about a year from now.

I'll gladly switch. If price is right.

Report · Jun 24, 2013

I'm sure Adobe is just waiting for us to tire and go silent. But do they realize that I'm getting quieter on the boards because I'm using that time to look into options to replace their software? Do they realize that it took me a month to catch up to the news and sign the petition? Do they realize that there are customers who are not going to post a comment or are too busy to sign a petition who are just planning on using XYZ when their version of CS won't run anymore?

I'm also curious about what they're teaching in business schools these days. Investments 101: Cash in your stocks when you make a bad decision but have too much ego to admit you should change and seek a compromise?

Sorry, I have nothing constructive to comment that others haven't already said - I just needed to vent. I'm dumbfounded that Adobe seems to be counting on us to succomb rather than find a way to run business based on selling a product that people want to buy. As history has shown, a dissatisfied customer base opens the world to competition, so why would Adobe risk opening the door for us to seek out customer-friendly options? 2 years later, NetFlix still hasn't recovered, but the line at the Redbox kiosk gets longer.

After working with Adobe apps for 18 years, I'm willing to go through a learning curve and minor inconveniences in working outside of a suite of applications rather than pay into the cash cow. The Adobe of my early years did so much to support us, to develop our loyalty, and I supported them in return by buying upgrades. I miss that Adobe who wanted to earn my purchase. I resent the Adobe who wants to strong-arm my money out of me.

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Here's another interesting perspective on Adobe's latest earnings entitled: "Sell Adobe: Potential 25% Downside".

Only the first, of two pages, is visible without signing up. But given the title of the article, the conclusion is pretty clear.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1518402-sell-adobe-potential-25-downside?source=yahoo

BTW, S&P's June 22, 2013 Stock Report on Adobe rates it as a Strong Sell, with a 12 month target price of $33. To be fair, most analysts are still rating ADBE as a buy. I suspect that things will become much clearer after Adobe's September earnings call.

Dan

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Kwan Parker wrote:
Europe seems to take these business transactions more seriously than we do in the US.
I do wonder what we teach students in top tier US university business schools.
Meanwhile, while advocationg for immigration reform . . . meaning Adobe is an international and not an American company . . . they charge the rest of the world what the traffic cost . . . bribes . . . taxes . . . parties with hostesses . . . who knows?
With some understanding of cost across international borders . . . Adode management thinks their once only font and printer company is something immune to lawyers.
Any lawyers representing customers/investors you know about?
Have a link for contribution?

Be careful what you wish for. While European laws are more strict on the one hand, and better, they are out of hand completely on the other side.

I don't really care what Adobe does in the sense that they are a company that can decide how they package their own product. Fine. What pisses me off to no end is that they are being dishonest. They have tried to make the cloud offering sound cheaper, better, more secure, without future file accessibility issues (my biggest problem), etc., etc., none of which is true!

Sorry! but 'eF U Adobe! Lying sacks of excrement!

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Adobe is trying to treat their software as if it were a service. The problem is that the software is not a service, it is a tool. A tool that takes days and months to learn. Then hours and days to craft and create media and art with.

My cable company provides me a service. Netflix provides me a service. My cell phone company provides me a service. I did not have to spend hours or months learning how to use my cable box or how to watch Netfix or how my phone connects to the network. If another company comes along and offers the same SERVICE for a better price or with better features then switching to that company does not require me to spend hours or months learning how to use the new SERVICE.

I also don't spend hours or days using Netflix or any other SERVICE to create my own piece of art or craft video and audio into a story. Or to create something from scratch that only these SERVICES can open. If I choose to discontinue these services I don't loose access to anything I've created and I can just pick up with the new SERVICE where my old service left off.

So besides the fact that I will loose the ability to open and edit my files if I choose to stop paying Adobe. I will also loose the many hours of my life that I spent learning their software. This makes it even harder to switch to another company if they do provide a better product (notice I said product, not service) because then I will have to start from scratch and spend months learning the ins and outs of the new product.

I have a real problem investing all that time and effort into something that I don't own and that could be taken away from me at any point in time.

Sorry Adobe but I don't rent software.

Report · Jun 25, 2013

^

Agreed. Adobe's "software" is NOT a service, and no matter how many services they develop in the future to work with the software it will still not make the software itself a service. The Adobe cloud concept it a marketing facade wrapped in deceit.

Report · Jun 25, 2013

Agreed.... I have asked a big dutch reseller of Adobe products if they tell their customers

that when buying CC they not will be able to open any artwork source files after quitting their CC license...

I have not received any answer.... keep u posted...

Op 25 jun 2013, om 15:06 heeft W_J_T het volgende geschreven:

Re: No perpetual licenses are you serious?
created by W_J_T in Adobe Creative Cloud - View the full discussion
^

Agreed. Adobe's "software" is NOT a service, and no matter how many services they develop in the future to work with the software it will still not make the software itself a service. The Adobe cloud concept it a marketing facade wrapped in deceit.
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Report · Jun 25, 2013

Shawn4G wrote:
Adobe is trying to treat their software as if it were a service. The problem is that the software is not a service, it is a tool. A tool that takes days and months to learn. Then hours and days to craft and create media and art with.

Agreed ... unless or until Adobe can create software where all I have to do is push a play button, dial a number or just tune in ... CC can't honestly be equated with a service. Just because CC has a payment system that is akin to traditional services, that alone isn't a true comparison ...

Report · Jun 24, 2013

That was an interesting read!

It demonstrates well the recent attitude of Adobe. Just makes me wonder, when did this lying to people thing become ok? Now I consider myself a pretty hardcore capitalist and I think companies have every right to make money the best way they can. But not by being deceitful, that's where I draw the line. I prefer not to do business with dishonest companies.

Anyway, based on the stock market reaction it seems like the initial candy-coating Adobe provided mid June is starting to wear off. Maybe investors are not as stupid as Adobe hopes?

Report · Jun 24, 2013

Was it not Mark Twain who said that there are three kinds of lie: Lies, Damn lies, and Statistics?!

Report · Jun 24, 2013

> But not by being deceitful, that's where I draw the line. I prefer not to do business with dishonest companies.

Unfortunately, history has shown that that's often where we end up. Someone is always looking for "the line" as far as what they can get away with.

One one end of the spectrum you start with 'minor deceit'. Like leaving out significant negative information or aspects in the advertisements and fliers that you can only find out when you read the included instructions ("This extension cord should not be left plugged in when unattended" was a surprise for me. And that was a relatively expensive one).

Marketing groups tend to know what their customers actually want, and are often not afraid to lead you to believe their product does exactly this (despite what it might actually only be able to do).

Inevitably you end up with some going to full-blown deceit. Like using red dye (which turned out to be poisonous) to improve the look of your old, going off, now 'gray colored' sausage meat. (In this case the raw sausage was supposed to be pinkish when fresh).

Or, putting 'plastic' melamine in watered down milk so it passes a protein content test.

Or selling radioactive waste gold as normal jewelry gold.

The list is seemingly endless, unfortunately.

Granted, the major cases I listed are a lot worse than what Adobe is trying to do. But, it shows the depths to which people are tempted (and some succumb to).