[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[toxic_waltz]

Everyone. All graphic related businesses need Adobe to be successful. The problem is, they have lost the rudder on the ship due to pressures they don't fully understand. We all love Adobe products. We count on them to make a living. They count on income to stay alive.

To strike a balance is key to everyone's success. Unfortunately, there is no balance in the decision to go strictly subscription due to the lack of understanding of the markets they affect.

Cleaning house is coming for Adobe.

[bababongatwo]

Jeff A Wright schrieb:

Bababongatwo I was referring to message #912 from Diabolo Venom within this discussion thread.

And????
"CEO gone"???

WtH this is an base to keep him quiet???
(Do you REALLY think, that´s against Netiquete? Again: Is this a forum to glorify Adobe?)

I think, it´s very clear, that this (CashCow) decision was made by leading board and not by employees, (which want users to work with the tools...)
So why is it not allowed to write disagreement?
The "tone"? Be sure -  you can find (very) much harder phrases out in the whole web. There is nearly nobody who is happy about that CashCow without Adobe (and as described in other posts - Mgmt board selling stock isn´t a sign that they are themselves...)

[toxic_waltz]

The Cloud is required to keep Adobe in business, Now and in the future.

Cutting perpetual usage is just slicing the companies own throat.

[AnnShelbourne]

Mgmt board selling stock isn´t a sign that they are themselves

NO?

This would indicate otherwise. Be sure to scroll down to the lower part of the page; and also look at the records for earlier months too:

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/adbe/insider-trades/sells

[bababongatwo]

Not sure, if I understood right (not a native speaker) - what I tried to say, was: A Mgmt board, which is selling it´s stock is not an indicator, that they trust into their own marketing bushwah. I think, they know exactly, which great risk is behind that CashCow for Adobe itself. So "No!" they are not lucky with CashCow themselves, as they try to get the max of their stock NOW (not believing, Adobe stock will rise in future). They don´t trust into their business model. They even don´t think it will rise their income (...as they promised to stack holders).

[SoilentGreen]

Tired of the ‘War on Piracy’, Adobe Hopes to Turn Pirates into Customers

In a teaser for the summit, Richard Atkinson, Adobe’s Corporate Director of Worldwide Anti-Piracy, says the company now takes a more positive approach to solving piracy. Instead of hammering on enforcement, Adobe is now focusing on converting pirates into paying customers.

Adobe’s Anti-Piracy Chief stresses that piracy is a problem that’s in part created by businesses, and that these same businesses hold the keys to solving it.

I think they're doing something wrong,  they've instead turned paying customers into either pirates,  or competitor's customers.    They've lowered the bar to entry, but for everyone a LOT of people who were already in,  the bar has now been raised beyond what some can reach.   Do they really think that someone who's going to pirate Adobe software is going to look at paying $50/month and say "Hey,  that looks like a better deal."?   Granted,  I'm sure some will want to go legit,  which is great, but this is all at the expense of people who were already "legit".     I already felt pushed when the one version back rule came to be,  and now this..  People can only take so much pushing before they start pushing back.

[W_J_T]

^ Indeed.

Well that and the pirates got CC working 1-2 days after it launched, so it seems like they were not inclined to pay after all or be converted to paying customers as Adobe had hoped. So we can write that one off regarding part of the reason for the CC endeavor. By the issues people are having with CC across the forums with the products, it seems the anti-piracy was not the only thing lacking or faulty when CC launched.

[RB3_68]

I have to admit to pirating Adobe products in the past; I simply did not have the money to purchase the suite of products in a lump sum.

That has changed though as I recently signed up for the CC subscription plan at the more affordable $50/month fee.  I understand that some people are upset with Adobe's new model, but honestly it was the high cost to entry that I could not afford in one lump sum.

Adobe will collect $600/year from me in monthly installments, much more affordable.  I for one am thankful they have this new plan.  I get the most recent version of their software at a cost I can afford.  This certainly will help their bottom line with new signups and help fund future releases.

I think Adobe has it right with the new model; an affordable plan that almost anyone can afford. I think they realize that something is always better than nothing.  Yes, I could easily continue to pirate their products, but, like Netflix, if companies offer products at the right price point, customers will respond.  I'm a case in point.

Thanks Adobe!

[TheCoroner9]

Rich_B3 wrote:

I have to admit to pirating Adobe products in the past; I simply did not have the money to purchase the suite of products in a lump sum.

That has changed though as I recently signed up for the CC subscription plan at the more affordable $50/month fee.  I understand that some people are upset with Adobe's new model, but honestly it was the high cost to entry that I could not afford in one lump sum.

Adobe will collect $600/year from me in monthly installments, much more affordable.  I for one am thankful they have this new plan.  I get the most recent version of their software at a cost I can afford.  This certainly will help their bottom line with new signups and help fund future releases.

I think Adobe has it right with the new model; an affordable plan that almost anyone can afford. I think they realize that something is always better than nothing.  Yes, I could easily continue to pirate their products, but, like Netflix, if companies offer products at the right price point, customers will respond.  I'm a case in point.

Thanks Adobe!

If you admit to pirating Adobe products in the past then here's hoping Adobe is smart enough to file suit against you and prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law.

I can afford the CC model but that's not the issue. I, like so many other Adobe customers, don't want nor will I ever pay a subscription for software. Pretty simple.

[Andy_Bay]

Great idea from Adobe to reward pirates and punish long time loyal paying customers. That should work wonders for Adobe!

[pik80]

@Rich_B3 

That doesn't make sense. You don't save any money by making monthly payments over a lump sum payment. If you didn't have enough money to buy an update every 18 months at $600 then you won't have money to buy an update every 12 months at $600. The only difference with CC is that you are going to pay for new features whether you need them or not.

[RB3_68]

(@Thecoroner9)  Thanks for the well wishes.  I'm sure Adobe will spend the $$ to sue someone that couldn't afford the high priced version of their product in the first place.  If you don't want to pay it, then don't.  Nobody is forcing you to do so.

(@Andy Bay) How does this reward pirates?  Did you miss the part about them actually paying something now?  As I said before, something is Always better than nothing.  What I do know is that they have 50 more $ added to their bottom line this evening than they would have had if they did not make this plan available.

(@pik80) How does this not make sense?  It's like a mortgage on a house.  You either pay low monthly payments, or pay for the entire house at once.

What I said was, I didn't have the money to afford the entire suite at once, which was thousands of dollars for the suite of products in the past. 

That's thousands of dollars Right Now just to get started (The old model), vs. $50 Right Now to get started. (The new model)

What don't you understand about a lump sum payment to purchase the entire product vs. a small initial fee?  It really isn't that difficult a concept to comprehend.

(@all of you)  Such vitriol kitties... We can sling mud at one another all night, but I have work to do now that I'm a legal paying customer.  Go troll someone else, I could not care less.

[pik80]

@Rich_B3

What I don't understand about the "small initial fee" (that is actually an enourmous long term fee that you are going to pay for anyways) is that they charge you for upgrades that you don't need. If Adobe puts out features I don't use they shouldn't make anything off the update from me. It's very simple pay for what you use not for what you don't use. If Adobe can't put out features that are important to me that is not my problem it's theirs.

[pik80]

@Rich_B3

"I'm sure Adobe will spend the $$ to sue someone that couldn't afford the high priced version of their product in the first place."

If they are going are going to sue you for pirating CC I am sure they would sue you for pirating CS. I don't know what difference it would make to them. Either way they are loosing money. When I was attended college I seem to remember instructors that were talking about people getting sued for using copies of Adobe software that was not legit.

[FrannieKN]

"How does this not make sense?  It's like a mortgage on a house.  You either pay low monthly payments, or pay for the entire house at once."

Rich_B3, that's one of the points people are trying to make. If it were like a mortgage, we wouldn't be so angry because we'd own the "house" outright when we made the last payment.

With CC, there is no final payment; there is no option to rent-to-buy; there is no option to own the "house". There is only the option (option?!?) to rent... perpetually. Once you stop paying rent, away goes the software. Sure, you'll own your files, but you won't be able to open them. All of your hard work will be "foreclosed" on, and the Bank of Adobe will put a price on being able to open them again... a mere $50 per month... again, and again, and again.

[Greg_Bohn]

> (@pik80) How does this not make sense?  It's like a mortgage on a  house. 

> You either pay low monthly payments, or pay for the entire house  at once.

   Errr... no it's not. It's like renting a house forever verses actually buying it with a mortgage.

  Renting a house is usually something you do until you can afford to buy one. Home owners usually don't aspire to become renters some day.

   And if you don't have the cash for a house, you can take out a mortgage (a loan). You still end up buying the house even though you are making monthly payments on the loan.

  In Adobe's case, you can only rent under CC.

  The old CC was available before the recent drop of perpetual licenses. How come you were still a pirate then? (Presumably you could have taken advantage of the lower 'Entry price').

[TheCoroner9]

Rich_B3 wrote:

(@Thecoroner9)  Thanks for the well wishes.  I'm sure Adobe will spend the $$ to sue someone that couldn't afford the high priced version of their product in the first place.

Don't be so sure - Corporations do this a lot especially when it comes to software. It's called making an example of someone to deter others.

Pirating software is against the law. Pure and simple.

[dhl1]

Rich_B3 wrote:

That's thousands of dollars Right Now just to get started (The old model), vs. $50 Right Now to get started. (The new model)

What don't you understand about a lump sum payment to purchase the entire product vs. a small initial fee?  It really isn't that difficult a concept to comprehend.

Except you're not buying anying. Once you stop paying rent the software stops working.

It may be cheaper to start, but after serveral years and serveral thousand dollars spent, you're left with nothing.

As soon as you stop paying the rent your software stops working and even worse, you can no longer open your own files.

This is why so many of us object to the rental-only model. Feel free to pay rent forever if you want, we just want a choice to own.

[Greg_Bohn]

> That's thousands of dollars Right Now just to get started (The old model), vs. $50 Right

> Now to get started. (The new model)

  Well, $50.00 right now and a commitment of at least an additional $300.00 for the early termination fee if you don't go the full year. Otherwise you're committed $600.00 for the full year.

  And the old 'Entry fee' depended on how many applications you needed.

[Pauls Sloss]

I'm wondering whether I could charge Adobe rental to store their software on my hard disk between the periods I need to use their services?

[FrannieKN]

[lhodaniel]

Rich_B3 wrote:

(@pik80) How does this not make sense?  It's like a mortgage on a house.  You either pay low monthly payments, or pay for the entire house at once.

Wrong! When you pay a mortgage, you build equity in that house all along and, eventually, you OWN it. This would be like renting an apartment for your entire life.

[jbjones]

pik80 wrote:

@Rich_B3 

That doesn't make sense. You don't save any money by making monthly payments over a lump sum payment. If you didn't have enough money to buy an update every 18 months at $600 then you won't have money to buy an update every 12 months at $600. The only difference with CC is that you are going to pay for new features whether you need them or not.

So, now we know. Adobe's target audience are people who are poor at managing money. Targeting people who don't have the self discipline to save up money to get something they need can't be a good long term strategy.

I guess the one exception is the subscription plan does benefit anyone wanting to use the suite for just a couple months or even a year, but don't anticipate needing it long term. I can't imagine that is a good target audience either.

[urdaddi]

jbjones wrote:

pik80 wrote:

@Rich_B3 

That doesn't make sense. You don't save any money by making monthly payments over a lump sum payment. If you didn't have enough money to buy an update every 18 months at $600 then you won't have money to buy an update every 12 months at $600. The only difference with CC is that you are going to pay for new features whether you need them or not.

So, now we know. Adobe's target audience are people who are poor at managing money. Targeting people who don't have the self discipline to save up money to get something they need can't be a good long term strategy.

I guess the one exception is the subscription plan does benefit anyone wanting to use the suite for just a couple months or even a year, but don't anticipate needing it long term. I can't imagine that is a good target audience either.

Sorry, but your response here is simply based on ignorance and self-importance. You have no basis on this. Not a REAL basis anyway.

Simply because someone has a different opinion than you does not mean that the differing opinion is wrong..only different than yours.

Each person can have different circumstances and opinions.

There are many that benefit from Adobe's subscription's.

I do not begrudge anyone their oipinion, but it has been horrid in the forums here whenever anyone has made a comment in favor of Adobe the same group of people make post after post demanding that that the positive poster relent to the negative.

The thread here is huge....but it is post after post stating absolutely nothing new....with so much back-patting for those who are complaining. Some of the comment here really do not garner any respect by some who read them except for that inner circle of people who are showing such hate for Adobe..

[Andy_Bay]

Sorry, but your response here is simply based on ignorance and self-importance. You have no basis on this. Not a REAL basis anyway.

What are you talking about? Of course he has a basis for that statement, which is simply the obvious reality of things. This pricing model favors those who are bad at saving money up front, because now they don't have to. That's pretty obvious. On the other hand the ones that were able to pay up front now can't and their price has gone up. It also favors those who are uncertain if they will need the software for longer periods. The ones this model is horrible for is the long time paying customers. Those are the ones complaining here. Former pirates and newbies are happy. Those are usually the ones defending this model.

Simply because someone has a different opinion than you does not mean that the differing opinion is wrong..only different than yours.

I agree. That's why we should use logic and facts. And the facts are undeniable here.

Each person can have different circumstances and opinions.

What a thoughtful statement, bravo!

There are many that benefit from Adobe's subscription's.

Which would be mostly newbies and those who are uncertain if they stay in the business for a longer period of time. Who else really "benefits"?

I do not begrudge anyone their oipinion, but it has been horrid in the forums here whenever anyone has made a comment in favor of Adobe the same group of people make post after post demanding that that the positive poster relent to the negative.

Oh yes, you can bet on it. If I see something incorrect stated, I will defend the truth with logic and facts. You are welcome to do the same.