[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

Report · May 06, 2013

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

Report · Jun 29, 2013

Report · Jun 29, 2013

TheCoroner9,

I inderstand what you are saying about the subscription model and the way Adobe is implementing it. I also have issues with it but for me, the current price and offerings available in the subscription is worth it for me. If I didn't or couldn't use the tools then of course I would not subscribe.

Every software I have paid for has some sort of subscription or paid renewal to continue to get support and updates. Most of these are between 3 months and one year I have to again either repurchase or upgrade to continue to receive updates.

The only difference there is you have to pay it all at once, there is no monthly spread out option AND the big one for most people is if you don't upgrade or pay again the software will continue to work.

Whether or not Adobe's subscription fails or not will have no bearing on what other companies do. I think that this thought is an over stretch. I also do not see it as a failure for Adobe.

It is really simple for you, buy the stand alone CS6 version if you don't already have it and just use that until it becomes so outdated it isn't worth using. Things like Photoshop CS6 you can continue to use forever as long as the future operating systems support it. For you then the issue is moot.

Report · Jun 29, 2013

The failure for Adobe is that it has broken the trust of thousands of users.. Prior to the cloud Adobe interacted with its users, listened to their concerns acted on them .. this was good for the user and good for Adobe. With the cloud they are acting like dictators

The crux of most users concerns is the removal of the option to purchase... last year we could rent or buy... this year we are being told... if you dont rent then you wont get access to all the goodies Adobe brings... Gun to head

The problem is not everyone has access to the cloud.. ..for many a lot of the features in the cloud are not relevant to them... the prism scandal has me very concerned with cloud computing.... etc

I belive users should have a choice... I also believe that having owned software will keep the cost of the cloud down... Adobe will not be in a rush to charge you $4000 to upgrade your software...but if they feel they can suck it out of you in a rental model they will.

The cloud is currently fluffy and Adobe is getting everyone addicted with low prices (although I think pricing is horrid) and plenty of software..but as time goes on prices will go up and software will be removed and placed in other clouds (ie the web cloud, the video cloud etc) ...making users cough up more

ADOBE has damged it credibility with the people who made it the company it is... and whilst I think it will reach its short term goals...long term it is a disaster .. they will have to do a lot to regain my trust

Report · Jun 29, 2013

at_play,

Of course it's worth it to you. You just came along and easily signed up for a monthly plan to just "play". It's cheap up front now! You're the customer Adobe has its grips on, which in my opinion lessens the value of Adobe's software and turns a professional software tool into a 3rd rate subscription service. Come back in about 10 years and let us know if you're still happy paying Adobe a ransom; that is if Adobe's still around by then.

Report · Jun 29, 2013

creativetta wrote:
at_play,
Of course it's worth it to you. You just came along and easily signed up for a monthly plan to just "play". It's cheap up front now! You're the customer Adobe has its grips on, which in my opinion lessens the value of Adobe's software and turns a professional software tool into a 3rd rate subscription service. Come back in about 10 years and let us know if you're still happy paying Adobe a ransom; that is if Adobe's still around by then.

I am a professional web designer and earn a lot of money doing what I do. Do not let a forum avatar tag id be a label for who or what it is people do.

Though for me doing the web design and the like is fun for me at I do consider it play but I am also paid a lot of money to do it so I win on both counts there.

10 years? I don't think that far ahead and I don't pay 10 years in advance for things. Who knows where I will be a year from now let alone 10 years when it comes to Adobe and their software. I might not be working any more at that point so who knows.

All I can do is look at NOW and make my decisions based on that.

Report · Jun 29, 2013

at_play wrote:

Whether or not Adobe's subscription fails or not will have no bearing on what other companies do. I think that this thought is an over stretch.

I think other companies are paying attention to this. If Adobe succeeds in forcing it's customers to a subscription only model (which is great for the sellers), they will feel emboldened to do the same thing.

Numerous other companies are floating subscription versions, and most would probably love to be able to force this model on their customers as well.

Looking back at history for similar examples, when MS went big with mandatory product activation many others soon followed.

Report · Jun 29, 2013

I agree... MS, Apple are all looking to see if this works... if it does then forget ever owning software again..... software will own you

Report · Jun 29, 2013

Greg Bohn wrote:
at_play wrote:

Whether or not Adobe's subscription fails or not will have no bearing on what other companies do. I think that this thought is an over stretch.
I think other companies are paying attention to this. If Adobe succeeds in forcing it's customers to a subscription only model (which is great for the sellers), they will feel emboldened to do the same thing.
Numerous other companies are floating subscription versions, and most would probably love to be able to force this model on their customers as well.
Looking back at history for similar examples, when MS went big with mandatory product activation many others soon followed.

There will always be options. Adobe has publically stated they will for the forseeable future sell the stand alone suite and boxed individual versions of CS6.

All the other software companies I currently deal with do have a subscription and you ARE forced to pay them if you want the new versions. The only difference is the software does not stop working if you don't pay. If they change it so their software stops working if you don't renew or stop paying then yes, I agree with you.

Report · Jun 29, 2013

creativetta wrote:

Typically a real professional in a business making money projects their future spending and outlook. After reading what you said here, I think you'll fit in real good over at Adobe, perhaps you should work for them if you don't already.

Awesome! You think so? Think they would hire me? Suhweet.

Naw, I don't work for them in fact they work for me. I pay them to develop the tools I use and I give them feed back on what I like and don't and they sometimes pay attention and make a change here or there.

I did calculate the cost to 4 years out and figured in retooling and updates before paying.

I also pay other companyies for their tools as well and I use open source software and have contributed code and money to the ones I like. I also have paid programmers to custom build software for me.

I don't just use Adobe products and am not "tied" or "locked in" to their tools. I can switch in a minute to something else. I typically use 3 or four software during a design and backend layout. Typically at least one is an Adobe product.

I am not a corporate client or have 50 employees. I am a freelancer and also a developer and product creator. I outsource work to others as I need or want and it is quite possible at some point I either have paid you to work on something or in the future may either directly or via an employer you work for. OR maybe not, I don't know.

I am not a stooge though which is what some here think. I just like some of Adobe's products and I use them in my work and in hobbies and just to screw around also. The point is I use the products.

The cost of master collection for me is between 2500 and over 3k. That is somewhere around 3 to 4 years of Creative Coud. I am not sure the exact price for MC because it is different price depending on where you get it and with or in my case without discount.

The main arguement with the Subscription I completely agree with. In my own personal situation and my own calculations paying 50.00 a month it is worth it. For others probably not.

I get those feedback polls and I tell them exactly what I think about the service and the forced gun to the head subscription and higher subscription to not be forced into a year contract BUT I still use their software and the current retail cost of CC is worth it to me personally. If it wasn't I wouldn't pay it and just switch to one of the other software I am using already.

Other than that I can't really debate further on this as it is more a bias and anti thing beyond that.

When it is not worth it at which some point it will be, I will cancel my subscription probably around the time I stop actively developing the way I am and stop using the tools.

I don't really have anything more to contribute to this topic and I spent a lot of time here already. I am self-employed and have the time when not working to debate and talk here but this discussion for me is old and there isn't anything further I can contribute. I am not going to start calling people names or disregard anyone and that is my only option left here so I am outta here.

Thanks to all for the dsicussion.

Report · Jun 30, 2013

at_play schrieb:
All the other software companies I currently deal with do have a subscription and you ARE forced to pay them if you want the new versions. The only difference is the software does not stop working if you don't pay.

Can you name that software companies?

Report · Jun 30, 2013

> There will always be options. Adobe has publically stated they will for the forseeable future sell the stand alone suite and

> boxed individual versions of CS6.

I'm confused as to how there 'will always be options'.

Adobe said that the support was 'indefinite' (which seems like they expected you to think 'forever' when they really mean 'we're not saying when we will stop').

They said they were committed to CS6 support through the next OS releases, and as far as I can tell the 'next releases' will be both be out by the end of this year (with both Apple and MS having released their next versions by then).

And even if they really committed to longer than that (which doesn't seem to be the case), many are concerned about creeping incompatibilities between the CC versions and CS6.

> All the other software companies I currently deal with do have a subscription and you ARE forced to pay them if you want the new versions.

Maybe Apple is different, but MS doesn't require any kind of subscription (yet) for Windows or Office.

Even in the old model, you are still 'required' to pay for new versions as well, but usually get a discount over the 'full' cost.

The only software I have that has a required 'subscription' is my Antivirus. And that's because they do provide a constant stream of updates for virus detection which are required for it to protect you (so it at least fits a traditional subscription model).

I have a few cheaper programs where I pay for the continual 'upgrades', but they all keep working if I stop paying and I can choose to stop paying and come back later and still get a discounted upgrade price.

PTC MathCAD actually tried to force you to buy maintenance to get bug fixes, but I was having none of that (and they eventually backtracked a bit on that). Even then, the software still works if you stop paying, and you can still get an 'upgrade' price.

People here aren't begrudging you the option to have a subscription, just rebelling at having it crammed down their own throats.

Why don't they offer both options? It's because they want to keep you without an alternative other than leaving.

You may love it, but other feel trapped by it and it's a real forced price increase for them.

Report · Jun 30, 2013

Completely agree Greg.

Just to fill in the missing info about Apple and subsriptions, I own and use Macs almost exclusivly at home and work and the only subscriptions that I know of from Apple is for iCloud. And that is actually more of a service as well, it just allows you store files in the cloud and helps unify information on different devices. So Apple doesn't have a subscription based software either that I've ever come across. (and hopefully never will)

Report · Jun 29, 2013

at_play wrote:
TheCoroner9,
I inderstand what you are saying about the subscription model and the way Adobe is implementing it. I also have issues with it but for me, the current price and offerings available in the subscription is worth it for me. If I didn't or couldn't use the tools then of course I would not subscribe.
Every software I have paid for has some sort of subscription or paid renewal to continue to get support and updates. Most of these are between 3 months and one year I have to again either repurchase or upgrade to continue to receive updates.
The only difference there is you have to pay it all at once, there is no monthly spread out option AND the big one for most people is if you don't upgrade or pay again the software will continue to work.
Whether or not Adobe's subscription fails or not will have no bearing on what other companies do. I think that this thought is an over stretch. I also do not see it as a failure for Adobe.
It is really simple for you, buy the stand alone CS6 version if you don't already have it and just use that until it becomes so outdated it isn't worth using. Things like Photoshop CS6 you can continue to use forever as long as the future operating systems support it. For you then the issue is moot.

You're exactly the kind of customer Adobe is searching for.

I already own CS6 Production Premium and have been with Adobe since Photoshop was launched.

I would be happy to pay more for the older model. I could easily get my money out of CC But there is no way I'm paying for subscription software.

I've said this before but CC could edit an entire feature film by itself and be $1 a month subscription fee - I wouldn't do it.

It's impossible not to see it as a failure for Adobe already - since it alienated so many customers.

Report · Jul 02, 2013

TheCoroner9 wrote:
It's impossible not to see it as a failure for Adobe already - since it alienated so many customers.

Indeed. I've just been talking to the CTO of a publishing house. They have 200 seats of Creative Suite. They are NOT going to start renting. The Teams prices and being permanently in hock to Adobe in order to open their archived documents is a complete deal-breaker for them.

Also, the thread on this forum entitled "Alternatives to Creative Suite" has had over 7000 views.

Report · Jun 30, 2013

at_play schrieb:
The only difference there is you have to pay it all at once, there is no monthly spread out option AND the big one for most people is if you don't upgrade or pay again the software will continue to work.

No. Absoultely not.

With the classical distribution you can open and edit your own archive/work as long as you want. Lifelong.
With the CashCow concept you allways have to pay for the use of your once created (Adobe only editable) files after your subscription.

You are left with nothing after subscription.

Also the take "all or nothing" strategy isn´t the same as before.

And: CashCow is more expensive.
It´s only a matter of time how long it lasts till that point.

----------

CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never

Report · Jul 02, 2013

If you care to click on my posting history . . . you'll find I never commented much.

Till the cloud shut out the sun. I even got myself banned for some time.

Best wishes for those of you who think Adobe's Cash Cow is a good deal. Group hug and mourning memorial with those who see the Cash Cow for what it is.

Report · Jul 02, 2013

Maybe I'm just suspicious, but if anyone actually saw the above post, please say so.

Maybe my post was frivolous, irrelevant, and not worth a response.

What a response of any kind tells me (and you) is the mystery lady who banned me is not blocking my posts. Maybe my posts are frivolous, irrelevant, and not worth a response.

Thanks

Report · Jul 02, 2013

Kwan Parker wrote:
Maybe I'm just suspicious, but if anyone actually saw the above post, please say so.
Maybe my post was frivolous, irrelevant, and not worth a response.
What a response of any kind tells me (and you) is the mystery lady who banned me is not blocking my posts. Maybe my posts are frivolous, irrelevant, and not worth a response.
Thanks

Busy learning new software. Upgrading from Adobe does entail a learning curve

Report · Jul 02, 2013

Group hug back to you, Kwan Parker. They haven't censored you out yet!

Benwiggy, thanks for heading me in the right direction for learning about alternative software.

I have a couple clients who have CSx on their computers, and when I told them about Adobe's change in direction, they were shocked since they had not heard about Adobe discontinuing the option to own their software, and they will be looking for options to Adobe since they are both non-profits that cannot justify a monthly bill to access software that will not be accessible if their budgets become too lean. I didn't taint their thoughts with my opinions; just warned them that this would be happening, but it didn't take much more than saying "monthly subscription" for either of them to figure out what that meant. I'll be looking for online boards where we graphic designers discuss the options so I know which way to go and know how to advise them.

How many others like them who do not have their ears to the newswire aren't voicing their opinions because they're out of the loop? And, one day, they'll upgrade their O/S to find that their CSx doesn't run. And when they go to upgrade, they'll be in for quite a surprise. Talk about a great way to alienate customers.

Report · Jul 04, 2013

If you look at Adobe's investor pages on their website, they need a lot of subscriptions to make this a success. Something tells me that they're not going to meet their target.

If enough people stay away -- together with all the disgruntled people who've given it a try (see these forums for examples), hopefully, the company will reconsider.

Report · Jul 06, 2013

As their self set estimations are set very low (for their Wall Street Friends), may be they reach this.

May be. Hope not.

I think the 700.000 users who already got blue-eyed into dependency (lost their full, editable file access in case of quitting, what´s like a kind of slavery) are not the best number to point out that this "overwhelming" solution is a big success.
Isn´t it more a sign that this distribution is NOT WANTED?

But Adobe uses all it´s "creativity" to paint the cloud as pink as possible.

NOTICE:

Thats ONLY lower than 6% !!!!!!! of their total 12.5 Mio users WITHIN A YEAR. And under the condition, that they do everything, to press and force you into this horrible "cloud". Not pointing out all the Negs of their "solution", telling half-truth or worse. Killing the "as option" possibility, when they could foresee, that they will never reach their targets without that.

ONLY 6% under the condition, that there are big discounts for former users, which soon will end.

Every bet: If they can foresee, that they will not reach their self set low target of 1.25 K till the 1st of December, you can see other big discounts or "cloud" bundeled with products (as cameras) or small solution to mollify the concerns of big PS Hobbyists community they angered.

EVERY BET ALSO

that prices will raise (I think the timeline is mid/end 2014). Their "Catch Cloudies" Period will and must end in a near future, For the moment they have big loses of income with their "change". The lower the amount of Cloudies, the higher the prices for that. Simple math. And they have to raise, if they want to raise their revenue. There soon will be no longer income for them by CS buyers. Also the discounts for former users will end soon.

I would be carefull to get into a "no way out solution" (losing my full, editable file access in case of quitting subscription - hiring your own archive) under this conditions.
But time will tell.

ONLY...

if they do not reach their Wall-Street Targets, they will change anything.
It doesn´t matter to them, if they lose their face to us.

(They jumped to the first place of my most hated software developers from one day - may 6th - to the other. And not only mine.)
But to Wall Street...
Do you heard/read any reaction from Adobe, which shows, that they are listening anyway to all this concerns? Or more comments like "...some are not ready for the cloud..."
(For those, who are posting here all the time: Do you REALLY think, Adobes Mgmt board is listening here? Waiting for the day, where they post "excuse,..."? May be time is spend better, posting the truth at more relevant sites...! But I also think, it´s good to let potential users (here) know, what this "cloud" really is...)

MY SUGGESTION

Keep CS6 alive, as long as you can!
Remember it´s still good and stable.
Make it the Win XP of Adobe.
Do you really need the cloud-gimmicks?

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CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never

Report · Jul 06, 2013

benwiggy wrote:
If you look at Adobe's investor pages on their website, they need a lot of subscriptions to make this a success. Something tells me that they're not going to meet their target.
If enough people stay away -- together with all the disgruntled people who've given it a try (see these forums for examples), hopefully, the company will reconsider.

I imagine the big questions for Adobe (and investors) are:

How many new, non-creative suite, users can they get on the cloud subscription.
How many more subscribers will they get by ceasing to update the perpetual licensed CS.
How many current subscribers also have a CS perpetual license but are only testing the subscription during the reduced pricing and will cancel once the price returns to normal.

Those are the primary reasons why their subscription numbers will either rise or fall. It is entirely possible that they have as many long-term subscribers as they will ever get. I wonder if they are happy with that.

Report · Jul 09, 2013

I thought the Adobe staff was going to continue updating us on any news they received addressing the concerns of their existing customer base? Refering to this original thread: http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/

Since then, we have not seen any updates pointing out our real concerns with your captive only pay or die model. What happened with that original conversation Adobe? I don't see how CC will benefit the creative community but rather stiffle it. Updates please?

Report · Jul 09, 2013

You are correct that nothing has been said by Adobe. Just as troubling for me is the fact that high-profile individuals who I used to think were advocates for Adobe users (eg., the NAPP people) have, for the most part, only made excuses for Adobe. These people seem to focus on the issue of the cost of CC, but are disturbingly silent on the real issue of being able to edit files once a subscription has lapsed. The article you link to discusses access to such files, but I don't believe that such access, as conceived by Adobe, includes the ability to edit the files. Our CS6 applications will become obsolete with newer OS versions at some time, so to me this is the real issue.

Report · Jul 09, 2013

pknight424 wrote:
Just as troubling for me is the fact that high-profile individuals who I used to think were advocates for Adobe users (eg., the NAPP people) have, for the most part, only made excuses for Adobe.

I complained about that fact in a comment to an article on NAPP's member site right after CC went public. They don't take criticism well. I was threatened with banning from commenting. I told them I'd save them the trouble and demanded an immediate refund for NAPP (I had been a member for several years) and Kelby Training. I received the full refunds and spent the money on non-Adobe software.

Brown-nosing Adobe at the expense of paying members to your organization (NAPP) is about as low as it gets in my opinion. I have no respect for anything Kelby, and I urge others to cancel their memberships.

Adobe Community

[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?