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[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

Explorer ,
May 06, 2013 May 06, 2013

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I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

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replies 1886 Replies 1886
Contributor ,
Aug 30, 2013 Aug 30, 2013

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Just found this http://seekingalpha.com/article/1660042-expecting-adobe-like-growth-from-business-transition-at-auto...

"Adobe has benefited strongly by a business model transition to software as a service. Adobe has been able to charge more under this pricing model than the previous pricing model. Every time any other company mentions such transition the stock jumps and investors draw comparison to Adobe."

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Guest
Aug 29, 2013 Aug 29, 2013

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By Terrachild

Gee...should I, or shouldn't I?

Let me reiterate, Adobe stop e-mailing me these!

I was willing to pay you a lot of money for upgrades over the next decade.

Now I will pay you nothing.

It started with that "one version back" nonsense, then this cloud debacle.

When you guys get a new CEO, a new management team, and a new policy that is customer centric, I may come back.

Your risk is, by the time you figure out that you need to do that, many of us will have moved on to other software and never look back.

Oh...I have kids, and I will make sure none of them get 'hooked' on your software.

You are literally losing generations of customers for nothing.

You couldn't buy this kind of bad publicity if you tried.

Agreed.

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Engaged ,
Aug 16, 2013 Aug 16, 2013

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RobertoBlake wrote:
Think about it, you've always probably wished you could have more seats without paying thousands of dollars anyway.

Nope, as a freelancer having just two seats is fine for me. And thousands of dollars? Not everybody went for the complete Masters Collection. People had the ability to choose a suite that worked for them. None of this forced up selling.

And remember when we could just skip versions if we wanted to? Or just continue to use the software 5 or 10 years down the road without upgrading at all? Having a license to your software and not a subscription sounds like common sense to me.

RobertoBlake wrote:

And you can easily make sure that you export backwards compatible versions of your files, then you are never "locked out of them".

For now... yes, because the subscription only option hasn't been out for that long. For the most part CC is still CS6 with some minor changes. Give it some time and this 'easy' export to a perpetual version won't be so easy anymore.

RobertoBlake wrote:

There is not a single "issue" of the Creative Cloud that a creative professional shouldn't be clever enough to solve, we fix bigger problems than this all the time.

How can we solve the minor 'issue' that we would have to pay every month forever or be locked out of our software and our files? And none of this 'easy export' reasoning for our files because that is really short term thinking.

This isn't something you can brush away as a minor 'issue'. This is a major policy change that only benefits Adobe. The solution? Not to go along with it.

RobertoBlake wrote:

And frankly the Creative Cloud after 60 days (not counting the year plus of us early adopters), has been running fairly smoothly.

Adobe has made the first year cheap, and in some cases even completely free at this point. We'll see what the numbers say once people have to pay full price to continue and/or realize the trap they've allowed themselves to fall into.

Let's say the numbers are running 'fairly smoothly', some people have already said that they are only going along with it because they feel they have no choice in their business. "Everybody uses Adobe software", therefore they go along with a subscription only model even though they hate it. That is not how you build up a stable userbase that will stand the test of time.

One thing that should not be forgotten is that Adobe came up with the policy that you could be two versions behind and upgrade to the latest version. Then Adobe changed their policy so you could only be one version behind in order to qualify for upgrade pricing. People were basically forced to upgrade when a new version came out or pay FULL retail price again next time around. Adobe forcibly made us upgrade knowing full well that there would NEVER be an upgrade path to CS7. Adobe is now forcibly trying to jam a subscription only model down our throats by making it the only option we can "choose" from.

You call your article "Why Adobe Creative Cloud Is Not A Trap". Just look at the history of the company and how it treats its customers like cattle. CC is exactly that, a trap.

A perpetual license gives us at least some security against Adobe. We can continue to use our software without a monthly fee attached to it if we want to leave because of a policy change we do not agree with. Once you are trapped in the Creative Cloud you can't easily make the decision to leave, you are stuck with your monthly payments no matter what Adobe's decisions are in the future and your opinions about them. Sure sounds like a trap to me.

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Contributor ,
Aug 16, 2013 Aug 16, 2013

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RobertoBlake wrote:

If you already have a license then my advice if you also want the features of Creative Cloud but are afraid of the risk and Adobe's controls, is very simple. Keep your existing license, sign up with a new email address, and get Cloud and now have the ability to have Adobe software on 4+ computers... Best of both worlds.

Think about it, you've always probably wished you could have more seats without paying thousands of dollars anyway. This lets you create using the new features of Creative Cloud, but have the stability you've always had. And you can easily make sure that you export backwards compatible versions of your files, then you are never "locked out of them".

There is not a single "issue" of the Creative Cloud that a creative professional shouldn't be clever enough to solve, we fix bigger problems than this all the time. And frankly the Creative Cloud after 60 days (not counting the year plus of us early adopters), has been running fairly smoothly.

There are work arounds and alternatives and ways to deal with your Creative Cloud issues, its not nearly as bad as you think:

http://robertoblake.com/blog/2013/06/why-adobe-creative-cloud-is-not-a -trap/

Why would you want to pay through the nose twice.

It is a trap to get you to pay forever for the tools just to do your job.


As for 'as bad as you think' - a huge number know its bad

Nearly 40,000 people have signed the petition against it at change dot org

https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-s...

All the designers and printers that I know of have stayed with CS6 - and NOT joined the CC or cancelled after their first 'cheap' intro offer.

I know photographers that are now looking at alternatives to Adobe Photoshop

and its making the news its all sorts of places - for the wrong reasons - as per my previous post.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23714699

'not a single 'issue' - what a lot of rot.

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Contributor ,
Aug 16, 2013 Aug 16, 2013

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RobertoBlake wrote:

There are work arounds and alternatives and ways to deal with your Creative Cloud issues, its not nearly as bad as you think:

http://robertoblake.com/blog/2013/06/why-adobe-creative-cloud-is-not-a -trap/

Not a trap - said the spider to the fly.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/aja8888/Ostrich.jpg

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Engaged ,
Aug 16, 2013 Aug 16, 2013

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Roberto, your post (and your blog) does not hold water.

I have CS6, so you're suggesting that I should subscribe to CC anyway "to have the best of both worlds", despite the fact that I have lots of objections to CC...?

As said, once you start saving in CC, you can't always go back to CS6, and as soon as you stop paying, you can't open your files.

I've solved the issue of CC: I'm not getting involved in it at all.

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Contributor ,
Aug 16, 2013 Aug 16, 2013

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Benwiggy I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm suggesting it as a possible solution to certain people's issues. I'm not an Adobe employee and can only speak from my own experience. I'm the type try to fix things more than I am the type to only look at the negatives/problems.

I think it saying my points don't "hold water" is based more in your frustration than anything else.

I will focus first on backwards comptability:

Adobe Illustrator has always had the ability to export legacy EPS formats, which means that not only can you open EPS documents in any version of Illustrator but other vector editing progams as well like Corel Draw and Freehand.

Adobe Premier has the ability to export into the OMF (Open Media Format) which means that not only can this be brought into previous verions of Premier, but also Apple Final Cut Pro and Avid video editing software as well.
Beyond that see this thread in the forum: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1032691?PID=2159997

Adobe InDesign has the ability to export into the IDML format (since version CS4 I believe) which is a standard practice in Digital Print Production (more of my actual background and part of my perspective on Creative Cloud is based on this), which allows you to use the IDML for you to work backwards compatible, common issue between in-house production statff, printers and vendors.

Photoshop has never really had an issue with opening PSD file from later versions with the layers entact. Use Maximum PSD compatibility option when saving.

I'm not as familiar with After Effects backwards compatibility because everyone I talk to who uses AfterEffects always seems to be on the latest version, but there is apparently a AEscript that deals with this: http://aescripts.com/pt_opensesame/

Adobe Flash has always allowed you to save backwards compatible versions since at least CS3 if I'm not mistaken. You can also save in XFL format. I'm sure if I am someone will correct me.

Lightroom Libraries can be opened backwards compatible. Also don't forget the DNG format. Love Opensource.

Dreamweaver is all about coding, no backwards compatibility issue here.

Most of thses options also ironically allow you to capability to open your files in Applications developed by Adobe's competitors or the open source community. Not sure you can ask for more than that.

------------------------------------------

Lock out issue.

I like electricity, phone and cable internet, they let me be productive and enterained and are definitely worth the ROI, so I pay those bills every month and those services don't get shut down... not seeing an issue here....

Ok, you don't like that, I get it. Alternatives: prepay for the year. Throw it on a credit card and forget about it. Offset the cost by eliminating unecessary spending elseswhere, pass the cost on to your client or simply get over it and realize that you probably spend more a month eating out, watching movies, buying magazines or doing something else that doesn't put money back in your pocket.

I hope this information was helpful. I'm not trying to diminish anyones point of veiw or say you aren't entitled to your feelings. But in the end most of us on this forum are Creative Professionals. Problem solving is what we do for a living. Adobe give us tools that make that easier in an ever changing landscape.

There are reasons that Creative Cloud will make our lives easier and if you can get past the emotional reaction to spending money with them indefinately or the fear or what happens if you can't then you can clearly see the value.

The problem here is psychological. Its the fact that it is such a drastic change to business as usual, and it is the anxiety that comes from the possibility of the worse case scenario.

Again the easiest thing to do to avoid the anxiety of CC is to either prepay or use an open credit card. In terms of first year cost, it would be about what you pay if you were upgrading to Master Collection anyway and you get value and applications beyond what Master Collection would traditionally provide.

If you are in print production or web design and have ever had to purchase fonts, typekit alone is worth some of the monthly expense (good typefaces even web based can get EXPENSIVE). 20GB of cloud storage cost a pretty penny on services like Dropbox etc, so there is that as well.

Dollar for Dollar its worth the value, its not perfect, it can be better, it could be cheaper. But to quote Batman (JLU) "This is all that left to us, deal with it..."

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Contributor ,
Aug 16, 2013 Aug 16, 2013

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>Lock out issue.

>

> I  like electricity, phone and cable internet, they let me be productive  and enterained and are definitely worth the ROI, > so I pay those bills  every month and those services don't get shut down... not seeing an  issue here....

  And all those things are usually a 'service' by their nature. They are basically consumables and/or require constant access to an outside network to even function.

  Adobe CC is more like you used to be able to buy cars but now can only rent them... And then exclaiming how renting is worth the 'investment' when you are paying more in the long run and forgetting that the outright purchase would have been cheaper and the true investment.

  Depending on the circumstances you can still decide to suck it up and pay the increased cost. But I don't see how you should be enthusiastic about being required to pay more (even if you can still afford it)...

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LEGEND ,
Aug 16, 2013 Aug 16, 2013

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Adobe’s more regular updates to the CC apps will simply create more bloated products. The BBC in London has an interesting article today from New York, on the potential for more specific and simplified photo editing apps which can dramatically speed up workflow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23714699

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LEGEND ,
Aug 30, 2013 Aug 30, 2013

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Adobe’s more regular updates to the CC apps will simply create more bloated products.

  That's probably the most ridiculous of all the ridiculous arguments against the subscription model I've seen so far. 

It's based on the spurious notion that a piece of software has a hard limit on how much code it can contain, and entirely ignores that even if that were so, the old model would also reach that limit at some point in time.

It's absurd to the point of laughable.  Thanks for that little chuckle.

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Participant ,
Aug 30, 2013 Aug 30, 2013

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It is safe to say that you don't understand the concept of bloat, Jim.

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Participant ,
Aug 31, 2013 Aug 31, 2013

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I'm not in favor of the subscription model being exclusive, but logically, a subscription should give Adobe slightly more leeway in fine tuning the "more regular updates" and not feeling like they have to release a certain amount of features every year or every two years in order to attract upgraders.

I don't see how it has a bearing on bloat either way. If anything, cramming for a specific release date is more likely to result in bloat since they wouldn't have time to fine tune the new features. However, it could go either way if the programmers are being lazy. With lazy and sloppy programmers they are likely going to shovel out features as soon as they have it working, rather than fine tune them and make sure they are bug free before release.

It just depends on what Adobe is stiving for. Having a more stable income (albeit potentially smaller) should mean they can focus on quality and not worry as much about splash and sparkle.

I'm still not subscribing though. If they want to open it back up to perpetual licensing I'll upgrade whenever it solves a new problem that I need solving. I'm not in favor of paying infinitely for the same set of features if it happens to be a decade between improvements to the actual features I use.

If Adobe was actively providing a service, requireing labor and expense on their part, I would be fine with it. Something along the lines of Google Docs or Microsoft Office on the web. I would love to have the option of web browser versions of Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, etc, even if they had limited features as long as it could open and save the desktop app files and make minor changes to text and layers.

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Participant ,
Aug 31, 2013 Aug 31, 2013

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That seems like a fair comment, jbjones.

I felt initially that bloat was going to be a real concern, but I think now, as you say, it could go either way. I was being influenced by the recent stellar additions of features such as changing the UI color, and using the GPU for smooth scaling; i.e., eye candy. If that is the sort of thing Adobe is spending their time on, then yes, bloat is a real concern. But it could be that the new model will ease pressure to come up with something . . . anything.

I don't trust Adobe to do the right thing anymore, however, so my bet is still hedged towards BLOAT!

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New Here ,
Sep 01, 2013 Sep 01, 2013

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I will switch to other products.

Renting - no go.

Cloud - no go.

Price - no go. US-Prize is $49.99 - Swiss Prize is $65.99/month. What does Adobe think - swiss users are all CEOs of banks and pharma industry? We are rather hard working and often "one man entreprises". Adobe software was always a big expense for us. Don't think that this convenient for us...

Adobe should consider, that in many countries users usually are not working in big teams.

So long, Adobe.

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 01, 2013 Sep 01, 2013

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Hello,

Like you, the terms of CC just isn't good for my use.  There is life after Adobe.  I have switched to Grass Valley Edius Pro 7 and find it a very good substitute.  It is quite similar, but much more stable that CS6.  I have been using it for a few weeks and it has not crashed once.  There are cross over specials where you can get it a good price.  Try Videoguys, they were great to me.

Best of luck

Dale

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Contributor ,
Sep 01, 2013 Sep 01, 2013

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A lot of former Adobe users are switching to Edius Pro 7 including myself. Grass Valley must be smiling over Adobe's wonderful subscription model.

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Engaged ,
Sep 04, 2013 Sep 04, 2013

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Adobe has announced a Photoshop and Lightroom package for $9.99 a month

 

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=16785.0

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2013 Sep 04, 2013

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Adobe could announce a $1.00 a month subscription plan and I could care less.

I don't rent software.

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Explorer ,
Sep 04, 2013 Sep 04, 2013

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I agree.

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Guest
Sep 04, 2013 Sep 04, 2013

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Agreed.

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Participant ,
Sep 04, 2013 Sep 04, 2013

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Next one to agree 1000%

They can give it for free - I will not take.

Losing full file Access (after slavery) = NoGO

No Buy out = NoGo

Hardware dictates = NoGo

No guarantee for future prices = NoGo

This company lost my trust in total.

Seems they don´t catch enough Cloudies to tell Wall Street how successful they are.

CC = CashCow. Keep CS alive.

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2013 Sep 04, 2013

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  It would seem that they must not have reached the numbers they were hoping for... "Did we say $19.99 a month? Just kidding! How 'bought you come on back for $9.99 a month?".

  It wouldn't be surprising then if they're trying to find a price where they hope enough people will cave in to the new model so they still get their perpetual revenue stream without having to reverse course...

  And once you're hooked, they can still bide their time for future price increases.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 04, 2013 Sep 04, 2013

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I don't rent software.

Never tried Stamps.com?  It's a great convenience if you do a lot of mailings.

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2013 Sep 04, 2013

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Jim Simon wrote:

I don't rent software.

Never tried Stamps.com?  It's a great convenience if you do a lot of mailings.

Never - Too busy using software where subscriptions are not required.

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 04, 2013 Sep 04, 2013

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Completely agree also.  $9.99 and then what $99.99.  Even if it were $00.99 I wouldn't do it.  I want to own!

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