[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[FastFeet]

Even I have CC on my system (I signed-up when there still was an exit strategy and I was told that I can still buy CS7) I decided to use CS6 for anything critical to be able to keep my deadlines. I encountered too many bugs and issues with CC.

After a failed update for Photoshop CC and a system reboot I experienced the folowing issues:

Incidentally I double clicked on an InDesign document and it opened in CC. So, l'm already running InDesign CC. Now I tried to open another document and I was told that I have to sing in, because I’m using a test version. I WAS already signed-in. To finally give it a try, I disconnected from the Internet and despite all of Adobe’s statements I was not able to run the software!! So Adobe lied again. If your data gets messed up you have no way to run your software without Internet connection!

So I re-connected to the Internet again. Now I tried to run Photoshop CS6 to save the screenshot of the dialog box. What did I see? My CS6 is running in trail mode and I have to sign-in! If I would have not been on the Internet I could not do any work!! I would have missed my deadline and lost a lot of money. This whole cloud ID-check sucks big. At this point you really think about getting a pirated version, because only paying customers have to deal with those issues.

[Guest]

Yep, Adobe went about this whole thing in all the wrong ways. No CC for me. Ever.

[StormMarc]

I'm part of the crowd that refuses to be put into creative handcuffs by the lifetime cloud subscription so I plan on looking elsewhere once CS6 becomes obsolete or hopefully Adobe see the errors of it's ways.

With that said it seems to me that there is another problem.  I recently upgraded to CS6 which by this time is a fairly stable suite of products and it's working well for me.  I purposely waited for Adobe to work out the bugs.  But with CC I can see on these forums that there are a lot of problems and bugs in the current version.  My question:  Since CC is a constant stream of updates will the release ever mature like a major release that goes through it's bug fix cycle?

Seems like Adobe may have created two problems for itself.  Perhaps it's time for a new CEO and outlook on the value of it's customers.

[Sine-nomine]

$2500/ until I need to upgrade (which by then I need to spend another $2500 because my version isn't part of the 'reduced' pricing upgrade option)

or..

$600/year...and I never have to worry about falling off the "upgrade wagon"

Plus, I get access to new programs

((I use, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, InDesign, Flash, Illustrator [occassionally], Premiere, Encore [occassionally], , Acrobat Pro, Audition, Scout, and Fireworks; currently. So al la carte-ing actually ends up being about the same cost as _Master Collection_.

...and you can write off most of the subscription on Federal Taxes.

[John__SLS_Publicity_]

Dear Adobe.  Having discovered I cannot replace my existing CS5 Master Suite with another version I can keep you have effectively terminated our working relationship.  No one buying legitimate software wants a scenario where you shell out a lot of cash and end up with nothing.

you have no complaints option on your website so this forum is our only opportunity to complain.  When I first saw the cloud it seemed great BUT reading the small print shows you have nothing at the end of each licensing year if you don't renew.   Totally unacceptable to me and many others, happy to have a frozen version but not nothing.

WIll now be looking seriously at the competition.

[TheCoroner9]

illutian wrote:

$2500/ until I need to upgrade (which by then I need to spend another $2500 because my version isn't part of the 'reduced' pricing upgrade option)

or..

$600/year...and I never have to worry about falling off the "upgrade wagon"

Plus, I get access to new programs

((I use, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, InDesign, Flash, Illustrator [occassionally], Premiere, Encore [occassionally], , Acrobat Pro, Audition, Scout, and Fireworks; currently. So al la carte-ing actually ends up being about the same cost as _Master Collection_.

...and you can write off most of the subscription on Federal Taxes.

[Sine-nomine]

I fail to see how my head is in the sand.

I do not have the money to buy, out right, the products I need to do my job.

Do I like the fact that I have to keep paying? Not particularly. But the other option is to use pirated software which could quit working with any update; and some of these updates are needed (like when Dreamweaver got HTML5).

And it's not like we don't rent other things all ready.

-Home/Apartment (for Home: stop paying property tax...see how long you keep the house)

-Internet (pretty much mandatory if you're going to be doing work with Adobe Products; as you'll likely be working from home as well as from work)

-TV [optional]

-Water

-Electricity

-Sewer

-Cellphone (that cancellation fee covers the cost of the phone; you don't 'own' it until 2yrs are up)

At least with a subscription I can budget out and not worry that I may need to drop big bucks to do an 'emergency' purchase (like what happened when I was forced to buy CS5; coming from Photoshop "CS1" [first edition of the CS product line]). It's not fun to have to shell out a several hundred to complete a project.

[TheCoroner9]

"and it's not like we don't rent other things all ready."

Not the same. And it's been addressed many times in this thread.

Even if Hell freezes over - most are not going to Adobe's subcription model.

Actually your other option isn't pirated software but competitor's software.

I went to a competitor and have no monthly fees. It's rather simple to vote with your $.

[Sine-nomine]

I believe the reason people don't want to pay is because they feel, with little development, their monthly sub isn't really 'getting anything'. However, I think most people would be upgrading at least once every four years.

I simply cited examples of paying a "subscription fee" for other things that also show little change.

---

Unfortunately, that is not possible for me.

I am not the only one working on these projects and they use Adobe products (like Premiere and Encore), they aren't going to learn a new software..no matter how much money it _doesn't_ cost. And I'm pretty sure that most of Adobe's file types are proprietary ('cept for Acrobat's PDF of course and maybe PSD).

There's also the issue of 'I don't have time to learn a new product'; especially in this year.

---

And I'm not really saying people _need_ to accept this new business model. I am, though, pointing out that it's not as bad as it's made out to be.

-You save money over all; unless you don't step up to new versions often

-You can write off all of the allowed subscription fee on your taxes; unlike only writing off an ever-decreasing Depreciation write off

-Full access to all software; assuming it all goes to CC, and assuming you get the full service

-And ~20GB cloud storage, which is great of transferring files between the work place and home; I know you can carry around a portable drive...but Christ, that's a pain this this mobile day 'n age.

[Guest]

Go back and read Adobe's new (terms of service) fine print for the creative cloud and let us know how you feel after digesting that.

[Sine-nomine]

Is this the one at (http://www.adobe.com/misc/subscription_terms.html)?

I didn't see any 'fine print'. Or are you referring to cancellation of auto-renew? Well, that would ammount to ~$300 (12 months @ $50 is $600).

This is actually pretty standard. World of Warcraft, for example, had a annual plan and 'and get Diablo 3 free [non-Collector Edition]'. You were locked in for 12months of $14.95, with no option to cancel. Though, you might have been able to work something out. And cellphones also have an 'early termination fee'.

You'll need to be more specific about where the issue is for me to make a better response. Which is still a "I'm fine with this option. But it doesn't need to be the only option."-stance.

[John__SLS_Publicity_]

The issue is cash-flow, long-term for private/semi-pro users.  With the current system you upgrade when you can afford it but if you can't afford it at anytime, or don't need to upgrade, you can stick and still use what you have.  With the new system you are stuck with that monthly rental for life.  You are also forced to use the latest version of everything even if an older version is easier to use. (Example Dreamweaver.  Although I have the latest within my copy of Master Suite it is rarely used as the old 2004 version is so much more user friendly) 

What you are ailienating here Adobe is a section of the customer base that does pay in order to stop the users who use pirated versions. Despite the other reservations mentioned I would accept a change to registration and then log-in as an anti theft option (basically an e-dongle) via the Cloud provided the option to stick with a frozen version was available at the end of each 12 month contract period.  Lack of that is the deal breaker.

[Jim_Simon]

You are also forced to use the latest version of everything even if an older version is easier to use.

Updates are always optional.

[TheCoroner9]

illutian wrote:

And I'm not really saying people _need_ to accept this new business model. I am, though, pointing out that it's not as bad as it's made out to be.

-You save money over all; unless you don't step up to new versions often

-You can write off all of the allowed subscription fee on your taxes; unlike only writing off an ever-decreasing Depreciation write off

-Full access to all software; assuming it all goes to CC, and assuming you get the full service

-And ~20GB cloud storage, which is great of transferring files between the work place and home; I know you can carry around a portable drive...but Christ, that's a pain this this mobile day 'n age.

It actually is as bad as it's made out to be.

None of those points are appealing to me and I loved Adobe software prior to CC.

[bababongatwo]

Please show me a math, where I can save money!? with the CashCow licensing. That´s NOT TRUE!
Make me a plan for 11 years of continuous use (to include the few buyers of Master Collections)
Even if you bought the Master Collection and updated every cycle: The CS-Version was chaeaper in the end.

Every other Suite (which are what we realy have to compare, because they where sold and used most) was very much cheaper after a few years (3-5) of usement.

AND: You are not left with nothing after stopping to pay the slavery fees.

AND: You have access to all your files after the deal. For ever.

AND: I can sell my CS Collection after I decided to stop using it.

CashCow is never cheaper than classical distribution (Only if you use sometimes - let´s say 1 or 2 month a year).

[bababongatwo]

>> illutian

I absolutely can´t undertsand, why people in a "critical" financial situation are happy with the CashCow BS.

If I have not enough money to buy the good old whole thing (a complete suite, CS licensing), it means: I am small budgeted. In this situation you are always in fear, that you might not be able to pay the next month slavery fee.

And what´s up then? Software stops working, client at the door, no access to files!?
No. I absolutely don´t understand.

I want to own the right to use the software I payed for (years) unlimited.

Renting software isn´t compareable to renting a house.

[Sine-nomine]

Rather simple logic.

I can take out a large sum of money (~$2300 last I checked) to buy the software out-right, which I'll probably be forced to upgrade with in three years.

Or I can take out ~$50/mo for a year ($600 total) and it'll take roughly four years before I would have saved money buying out-right.

As of now, I will be able to afford that monthly (or $600/yr) fee. I cannot afford the $2300. Or even the $1899 for the absolute critical stuff (CS6: Design & Web Premium; specifically: Photoshop, Flash, and Dreamweaver...and individual purchase would cost $2097).

So, as I replied to another, I would _have_ to obtain a pirated version of at least CS5. The place I'm currently working for uses Adobe products and their [Adobe's] proprietary file formats. Or I wouldn't be making as much as I do now; I work at home and at work.

-And no, the employer isn't going to buy me copy. I all ready tried that path. I also tried getting them to get two CC Accounts, and thus four computer license (2 per account). So I could use the one copy on a temporary basis, while working there. But they opted to use one CC for Individuals on two computers (but not the same programs). So the license is used up unless one of the computers is signed out, which [the Adobe software] is still in-use.

The big bonus is I got in on the Black Friday deal last November, which set the price (for one year) at $29.99 for the entire CC Service. But since the start I've budgeted for $50/mo.

[TheCoroner9]

Congratulations MrB, You've convinced me to spend $600 a yr on software that I will never own and can't access once I stop paying the monthly fee. I'd rather just dump the $ down the toilet and at least I will still own the toilet.

As for your line about having to obtain a pirated version of CS5 - Ridiculous and simply an excuse. You shouldn't have to obtain a pirated version. And if you did then you, and anyone else who does that, should suffer the legal consequences of that action.

I honestly wouldn't subscribe for $1 a month. Not worth it.

Welcome to your spending future with Adobe MrB.

http://photobucket.com/images/throwing%20money

[Sine-nomine]

And I'm not trying to convince people to buy into the subscription. I'm simply pointing out that people are 'blowing up' because it's change. I simply point out that this method allows quick entry into a software packaged used by many companies for people who can't drop several thousand on software in one-shot.

Could Adobe do better? Yes.

I would do a Lease Program where after an annual subscription you have the option to buy the CC as an 'offline-after-activation' product (which is what CS has been since I believe CS5) for a much smaller fee...say $300 (which brings the total cost to $900 [$600 for the year sub and $300 for the buy out fee]). Basically, like leasing a car with an option to buy it; you pay the remaining price.

However, if you renew or start the subscription (read: lease) back up you once again pay $600 and an additional $300.

And who knows, maybe they'll actually do just that.

[Andy_Bay]

I can take out a large sum of money (~$2300 last I checked) to buy the software out-right, which I'll probably be forced to upgrade with in three years.

MrB I don't understand being "forced to upgrade". Can you name some features say after CS3 that would absolutely force one to upgrade?

[Sine-nomine]

@1,438.Andy Bay

I was using CS"1" [this was the first initeration of the CS line], that I had gotten through my school. While the place of employment was using CS3. They were also looking at getting CS5. Still being in school I, again, got the student-discounted CS5. But by the time CS6 had come out I had graduated and I'm not sure if I could get away with re-enrolling, getting the student CS6, then dropping out with in the first week to get a full refund.

--And yes, backwards compatibility exists. But I do recall seeing that CS5 would only be backwards to CS3. So, I was forced to upgrade....but being a student greatly reduced the upgrade, which was really buying a full version, cost.

Now, along comes CC, that reduces the upfront cost down to $600 (annual contract) or...$800 (annual, but paid using month-to-month contract).

1,440.Biggles Lamb

Not sure if this was a response to me.

But I recall the CS4 upgrade from CS5 to be ~$900 for the Master Collection tier. Since the best choice for CC subscription is the 'Full Service' plan, which offers the Master Collection access. You should use that for comparison.

And if we use you're update cycle of every two years of so. That would put your CS version to two version behind the current (seems they tried to release a new CS edition every year). I think that added about $200 to the $900 (recall something like $1149 for upgrading from CS3 MC to CS5 MC).

In that same time period (2yrs) the CC Annual Contract would run you $1200. I'll gladly eat that ~$50 lose if it means I don't get slammed with a several hundred upgrade because I suddenly find myself needing to upgrade -or- gain access to another product.

---

I can't speak for others, but for my own situation. CC has allowed me to continue working and to take on new tasks [with increased pay of course]. Like creating "videos" [more of a still and music track] to upload to YouTube using Premiere instead of directly hosting the music track...which broke because TLF was dropped and some other functions were changed ...really need to get HTML5 learned. But, christ, coding (from AS2/3 to MS VS's C++) has never worked out well for me.

Because of the full access, I can tinker with the other products that would normally be out of my reach. Like using Muse and Audition.

It's a rather nice feeling to know that what ever Adobe comes out with I _should_ have access to. Now if they start nickle 'n diming me to gain access to other services. Ya, I'll be pissed. The CC 'Full Access' is suppose to grant me access to everything on the Creative Cloud platform/tier/what-ever-it's-called.

[Biggles_Lamb]

You have your head so far up the cloud the sun is shining.

Users of the Production suite pay 600 every couple of years, plus you do not really need to upgrade every version so the 600 was then spread out over three or four years

If you also factor in that the initial low cost subscription is only for one year and then who knows but it will certainly go up markedly and your figures then become rubbish

Also you pay, and pay and pay, stop paying and it stops working

Only by not being in the cloud will Adobe listen to the vast majority of users and change their systems to include perpetual license and also buy out

Col

[SoilentGreen]

Biggles Lamb

"plus you do not really need to upgrade every version so the 600 was then spread out over three or four years"

Ahh,   but you fail to remember that Adobe has wisely moved from many versions back upgrade pricing, to two versions back, and then the most recent one version back.   Forcing you to stay current. Miss a year?  pay full price to get back into the cycle.   When they moved to one version back,  I knew something like this was in the wind.

Staying current for the five of us here using Design & Web Premium was $375/yr per seat. And we didn't really need all that came with the CS,  mostly Illustrator, Photoshop, and Acrobat.

Now $600/yr per seat. 

Adobe, "But look at all of the wonderful software you get, that you couldn't afford before." 

We could afford it,  we don't need it,  don't want it, and don't want to be charged an extra $225/yr Each,  to not use it, and still not own the licence to use for as long as we want.

[FastFeet]

Actually, if you need to purchase CC in the name of your company you are forced to purchase the team version which is even $840 per year!

P.S. Did you see that the discount for existing CS customers has been extended again? Now the discount is valid until December. Adobe knows if they will miss the 1.25 million mark in December Wall Street will drop them big.

[lasvideo]

Almost 40,000 folks have signed.They don't like Adobe Creative Cloud "Eternal Rental" licensing scam .Show @Adobe how you feel. https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-s...

Another more fiscal way to show @Adobe you dont like the CC licensing scheme.http://adobe2014.tumblr.com #adobe2014