[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[W_J_T]

"Completely uninstall Adobe Application Manager" has finally unseated this thread in the "Popular Discussions" list. Indicative of all the wonderful things CC has to offer on the most basic of levels.

[MyCoalescence]

2 massive security breakes in 3 weeks by the same organization. Can you belive it. Adobe has a discusting record with hackers and security. This is just 1 more reason to not touch cc (crazy contaminent, its makes your go crazy and belive you can only be sucessful if using the adobe drug then propogates it self) with a 10 foot pole and treat it like the plauge! The more adobe messes up the move im lilking their competetors.

For my quest ive found 3 alternatives to multiple adobe programs.

Serif, prosumer, decent but not great for proffesionals. Better than most hobbyist software. Good for students. Cheap.

Xara, professional, good products and reputation, worked with corel for a few years on CorelXara a drawing program so they know what they are doing, worth looking into

Corel,professional, very good and many products are equal or better than adobe and a few programs are lacking, much better than alternatives, next best to adobe, has the most pottential to take some ground from adobe

Corel is doing alot to counter adobes many bad moves. They and others are giving massive discounts and some to current adobe customers. Corel promised to not get rid of perpetual licenscing in the forseeable future. Adobe gouged non US customers and corel is giving many countires a discount on their product. Adobe tried to force us all to the cloud like cash cows. Corel countered with still selling lisences on cd/download, a standard + premium cloud member ship and a subscription only membership. They have the valued middle plan. They are really capatalizing on every mistake adobe is making since crazy contaminent.

[Paul_Taylor]

It's about time Adobe realised that people need to be able to work and not worry about being connected to some kind of mothership to operate. Start putting your customers FIRST.

Bring back perpetual licenses, pay once, use the tools, and understand people don't want to be connected by a technological umbilical chord that hemorrages trust, time, security and money. Software as a service has failed. This is costing users dearly (and not just right now, but long into the future once details hit the dark corners of the web).

Adobe - Let us get on with our jobs without the constant fear that something is going to go wrong. Let us purchase software and disconnect until we need you.

I'm so glad I cancelled my CC membership.

The BBC report more details -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24740873

38 MILLION ADOBE ACCOUNTS HACKED!!!!

[MyCoalescence]

wow, 38 million. Thanks to adobe telling us is was 2.9 million. Lied by a factor of 10! Adobe you lieing, bean counting, manipulating magicians! There is no way I will go Cash Cow. If this is what we see what else are they hiding and is 10x as worse? Im a student getting ready to get my BFA in a few months. To think I almost thought it was ok to just get student edition of cs 6. How can we trust a company like adobe? It all goes back to star wars: revenge of the sith. Palpatine talking to anakin tells him the jedis are corrupt. Reminds anakin that all those with power want to keep their power and will do all they can to keep it. Not agreeing with palpatine. Im saying adobe has become the power hungry controler and will do what ever it takes to keep that power! Who knows whats adobe will do in 3, 6 or 9 year, next you might have to log in every day with a retina, finger print and voice scanner to prove that its you!

Im not finial on my decition of cs 6 or alternatives as corel but my trust and like for adobe has actually plumeted to below microsoft. I regret to say I now actually consider... gulp... microsoft a better, more honest and user freindly company. I think I want to puke...

[Guest]

ADOBE! It is now time to fess up and reverse your backwards thinking into the cloud. Admit your foolish decisions and mistakes and give customers back the right to own perpetual licenses. End of story.

[Danny_Michael]

Check back in 2-3 years or when the announcement is made the current CEO is dismissed. Until then, it is what it is.

[MyCoalescence]

Here is how I feel about crazy cloud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPTc79Qw2g4

Yes you get upgrades that are nothing but flashy and not essential.

Adobes story is like a Greek tragedy at the point that the hero has reached their long sought victory and becomes proud. The bigger you are the farther you must fall to hit the ground.

After years in 80s they innovate with font types and improve the industry of print and design. The peasents take note of their courage and start to gain favor with them. Adobe is lifted to the title of lord of tools by some. In the 90s they continue to innovate and improve the landscape of digital software, fonts and universal file sharing. Adobe is lifted to the title of king of tools by their many proud peasents. They rise above their competitors and start absorbing them out one by one into their kingdom.  Many of king adobes tools become renowned the through the world as photoshop, illustrator and indesign. The kingdom of Quark makes massive blunders thinking they are too big to fail as king of all things desk top publishing. They anger their peasents too much for too long and adobe sweeps in with indesign and starts a second desk stop publishing revolution. The peaple flee from quark as soon as they can and join forces with adobe. In 00's adobe joins forces with many smaller counties and dethrones others. It is during this time it proudly claims itself king of the world and in not just land but sea, air and outer space. They increase their prices as a tax upon their loyal followers who supported and cheered them on for 20 years. In the 10's is declared the professional standard of tools the world over. This is where our story really starts...

The fall of the rise of adobe

Adobe decides it is king of the world and imposes further taxes upon their peasants. The peasants reluctantly agree and hail them as king of the world and together crush all who oppose them united as ruler and subjects. This is when they impose cs 5.5 which is short for creative siblings first child and declare that to be the start of many 0.5 yearly upgrade new children to add more to the family and cancel upgrading more than 1 edition back. They announce their newest child crazy cloud and many peasants over time join in to feed it and pay tribute. Not long after Adobe king of the world declares it will be sacrificing its oldest living child creative sibling to crazy cloud as it is very hungry and needs to grow. The peasants shocked as Adobe starves its once proud oldest child and instead use all their resources to baby crazy cloud. Crazy cloud is very hungry and knows nothing else and gets a hunger that is never satisfied. The taxes increase and the peasants must now rent their tools from adobe to help raise the new child. Adobe promises the crazy cloud will be even greater than creative sibling ever could be but that it will take time and we must pay to help this. The peasants see adobe about to sacrifice creative sibling to crazy cloud and revolt in anger to rescue it. Adobe unbelieving any would still support it reluctantly allows it to survive but in the dungeon and only just enough to survive. All the while the other kingdoms of Quark, Corel, Xara, Microsoft and many more called the alternatives have been lying in wait for such an opportunity. They look and wonder how the peasents will deal with the new tax. They decide that if it works for adobe it will work for them but if not its a great chance to strike and ithe way they win. The peasants petition the king to free cs but the king refuses to go back on the decision that cc will be the future of the kingdom and the world.  The peasants rally around the chained cs and many refuse to pay tribute to cc new tools and use their tried and true ones made by cs. Adobe gets annoyed by the lack of funds and promises reduced taxes the first year and that is enough for some but the majority are still refusing to pay. Adobe commands them to pay or be thrown in jail. The peasants start plotting against adobe to not pay cc, free cs and join forces with their long time enemies. The alternatives see the peasent unrest and plot adobes destruction but wait for the right time. They offer reduced taxes to and who with to join them.

The beginning of the fall of adobe

The some peasants flock to any other kingdom they can afford to live in. Adobe smirks and says they will never survive on such unprofessional tools and disregards them leaving knowing some would leave. As time passes when the peasants cs tools finally wear out and cc has grown to adulthood their is a decision to make. Creative Sibling dies an honorable death and many morn across all lands. The other kingdoms have grown from the disloyalty of adobes peasants and to a point joined forces against their common enemy adobe. All the while adobe sees its followers leave and instead of apologizing or making amends just increases the taxes to those who stayed to keep its taxes comming in full. They care not for the care of their people or that their enemies have grown some what. The peasants have to decide to join cc or the other kingdoms. Some reluctantly finally submit to adobe and join crazy cloud and are given golden shekels to forever wear in its service. The vast majority in the course of a few months threaten to abandon adobe.

O how the proud have fallen

Adobe will not tolerate such a thing and demands they stay and it fails. They desperately offer even better tools but the pleas fall on deaf ears. The peasants join forces with adobes enemies and welcome the paying of small tributes to new masters. The alternatives as they are known have been growing stronger as adobe was growing weaker and can now content in open combat with it. The added support of adobes many peasants enforce their armies to the strength any one of them can match and overthrow adobe. They alternatives squabble among themselves on who gets the killing blow while adobe shrivels to nothingness. shrinks. Adobe instead of being allowed to die in peace is split into equal pieces as a remembrance of what used to be the tyranny of adobe. The land and power of adobe is split fairly evenly by chance by all the alternatives as they grab for adobes land.The alternatives now all stronger and of near equal strength vow to never let one become so much stronger than the rest for so long or to try to over throw the world again. For many years the alternatives focus in different tool making and none completely rule any one tool. Many years later after they have forgotten their alliance they start to grab to be king of the world and the cycle starts again.

[jbjones]

Well, I have to admit that greek tradgedy was a little long, but thoroughly entertaining.

[Guest]

I thought it was excellent and very well crafted. Props to MycCoalescence for summing up the reality of this tale in the making.

[MyCoalescence]

Thank you kindly. Was a bit long. Im not much of a writer but I do like irony and Greek tragedy is the best example. They show struggle, epic win, fail and epic self caused fail usually taking everything you loved down with you. I just think this is where adobe came from, is at currently and probably the direction they are heading unless they make a significant change to save the fleeing customers. The success of adobe was epic and the fall would be equally epic.

They think they are kings and can do what ever they want to us but luckily we live in the 21st century and can do something about it. We are not cash cows of the dark ages that you could force to pay taxes or die for there whole lives.

[Comatose2u]

Not only did Adobe shoot themselves in the foot, they've screwed the companies selling plug-ins.  I buy $1,000's in plug-ins, and with this situation, I am not purchasing anything new.  Like the Adobe Master Collection, which I purchased whenever a new one was available, I did the same for my plug-ins such as Red Giant, Boris, etc.  For arguments sake, If I did purchase CC, if I had to stop my subscription for some reason, I would lose all the money I've spent in plug-ins as well?  I don't think so.  Even though I love my Adobe software, I will move on, and this will open the door for new companies to get a share.  Don't ever think your products are bigger and better than your customers.

[MyCoalescence]

Adobe didnt just shot them selves in the foot but both feet and manages to burn their hands by holding the gun by the barrel as they fired it and did the hot potato toss in the other hand and burned both hands. They are too proud to admit they made massive mistakes. This monty python and the holy grail video of arther vs the black knight is a great example. The black knight is adobe and arther is its competitors. Adobe is in complete denial and lying to its self and the world hoping it will some how make it through by staying the course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvqhk7YDH9U

I have not used many plug ins and had not considered that adobe cc move could really kill plug in companies. Luckily corel does support adobe plugins! I cant say off the top of my head which ones or which products but I did see it mentioned in more than 1 spot that some or all of corel software supports adobe plug in. I didnt pay a lot of attention since I dont use plug ins much. Corel also imports/exports adobe which it and Xara and a handful of other can do. Corel has a photoshop and illustrator workflow set up option just as illustrator has workflow options like "essentials". The adobe plug in makers may not be 100% doomed as many could migrate to corel and maybe others.

As my Greek Tragety implied it could be a few years of people migrating away from adobe as their cs product is no longer supported by OS, RAW, hardware or is getting obsolete. Right now my top choice is to migrate to Corel or Xara. Im also throwing around the idea of getting a cs6 standard suite for students. The only problem would be it will be 2 years old when i graduate and currently there is no discount for it getting older. It also would be a partially bad investment as i wont upgrade it to cc and by the time I would be done with it no one would want to rebuy it. Corel and many others are running nearly constant sales. I am boycotting adobe for sure through the end of the year.

Adobes goal was to get 1,250,000 cc members by the end of the year. Also in its first year it only got about 350,000 members and it hopes to triple that in its 2nd year. Just bad planning. The start of september they reported they had 700,000 members. I also read that since the beginning of the year they are getting about 12,000 new cc members a week. The funny thing is this number has not changed with the may decision to stop CS development. They have september, october, november and december to get 550,000 more cc members. Though from march-august they only got about 350,000 members in 6 months. They did report "people are migrating to the cloud faster than expected". This is a lie. People are going at about 1/2 the speed they had expected. If the trend stays the same they will get 12,000 x 17= 204,000 new cc members putting them at about 904,000 which puts them at only 75% of their goal. That is not an epic fail but it is a significant fail and stock holders will notice and some one will have to explain to them why they didnt make adjustments based on changing conditions to get that number up. Also that is people joining with the introductory rates so they will have much harder time getting people once those sales end in december. They also had the goal of 4-5 million cc member by the end of 2015. That is 102 x 12,000= 1,224,000 + 904,000= 2,128,000 which puts them extremely short of their goal. That puts them at 52.3% of their goal which is an epic fail worthy of their epic story and successes! Not sure how good adobe is at sales projections...

[Doobie_One]

I didn't take the time to assess your numbers, My Coalescence, but I just wanted to expand on the part about people joining with the introductory rates. There is a number that is hard to factor in, that is the number of people who, like me, have been duped into trying the CC only to be disapointed. I'm probably not the only one that wants out but is deterred by the cancellation fee that goes with this choice. My gut feel is that more people will jump **out** as time goes by, as the fee to get out diminishes. Right now the *admission* fee may be OK for a lot of people, but how many have realized what the *release* fee is? Not only in terms of money, but captive documents. Think about the disappearance of the Freehand to Illustrator import feature. Some people had decades worth of legacy documents they can't import in CS6 now. Consider your future with a company that can deny you access to your work at any time...  Best course of action: DON'T join in. DON'T let friends join in. Don't let your boss, supplier, clients, or anyone you work with, join in.

Adobe can pursue the CC way if it wants to. There will always be some people to support it. But if Adobe comes to its senses and offers, say, CS7 perpetual licences next year, it will also need to start listening to its customers again and put the features they need into the software, instead of the "marketing" features they use to lure the kids without adding value... They have a long way to go before they earn our trust again, I think.

[Guest]

Totally agreed guys. The trust is completely gone. Adobe is now punishing customers to join the cloud with all their fees, rules and penalties that go along with it. Awesome business model Adobe, kudos for the failure.

[Biggles_Lamb]

Anyone who signs up for the CC and then wants out is just plain stupid.

Sorry if that offends but there are times when I am so frustrated that all CC adopters see is the $ sign.

CC is available FREE for 30 days...............if you have failed to take advantage of this then there is no hope for you.

Why would you want to do anything other than test it out thoroughly during that period before deciding to subscribe?

Learn from your mistakes, and do read up on any product or service before you buy and if there is a choice then test it out first.

Col

[Doobie_One]

I don't mind you calling me stupid after I pointed out myself that it was a stupid move. But, why such anger, Biggles Lamb? Perhaps you feel the battle is lost and don't need to win people over to the perpetual licence option. Yeah, maybe you're the only smart guy on Earth and you feel lonely. But I'd rather work to win over all the dumb guys like me who've trusted Adobe and used their products probably longer than you've breathed.

You're the one fixating on the $ sign. Probably don't earn much to bring up the free 30 days. Did you test drive each of the CS upgrades before buying? Maybe you have too much time on your hands. The nature of my job dictated that I move to the latest version because I can't lag behind my clients and suppliers. I have test machines with the newer version while the production boxes still use the previous. It's not so stupid when you don't have the spare time to "test it out thoroughly". Until now, I never regretted trying an Adobe product. 

But then again, remember that opinions are like a**holes: everybody has one. I don't think you've contributed much with your comment and think you should quit while you're ahead.

[bababongatwo]

I was using Adobe products for more than 20 years before cloud stupidity began.

I bought every upgrade of my master collections, soon after they came out.

(Made it like you - first only installed on one mashine till buggs where gone with updates).

I will never spend an cent to this "company" called Adobe.

And it´s not only me. We have a community here, which is also switching and of the opinion, that this way of Software Distribution is absolutely not acceptable.

I am of the opinion Biggles Lamp is absolutely right.

As Adobe wants to pay us for the use of our own archives, it´s simply stupid to look only for the sounding cheep fee entrance price (which will rise soon, I take every bet).

As you own nothing - standing alone in the rain with your files - after subscription I call it stupid again, to use this Cash Cow (CC) which isn´t a cloud anyway.

Allways good luck for you. And allways enough money to use your archive.

[MyCoalescence]

Any how back to reallity children...

Im glad you saw the good and bad of CC and decided it was not right for your after trying it for a while. I just finished my CC trial version this week. It did nothing to sway me to buy into it and drink adobes koolaid. I did a 4 week long 24 page booklet for a class project. I saw few if any changes from cs and none that were remotely significant. As an upgrade its not even 1/2 upgrade quality. I agree that there are probably cc users who are changing their minds as all the facts for good and bad set in. For now there is no reason to upgrade to cc as it is not a real upgrade at all yet. The only reason to get cc right now is if you want the master collection but only had a suite before. The only upgrades to illustrator in last few editions is what they ripped from freehand after buying it and even those took a few editions to get put in like multiple art boards and perspective grid.

As you mentioned you can leave cc but have a early penalty. Here is the funny thing. I just saw there is actually 2 pay rates for the same customer. There is the pay per month/year for 50/month with having to pay 50% of remaining amount if you leave early and 75/month for being able to leave any time. If you want to do more than the 30 day trial do the 75/month leave any time plan. Leaving at 6 months of ither payment plan is the same amount.

6 months x 75= 450 for leave any time plan

6 months x 50= 300 + 6 months x 25=150 = 450 for none leave any time and paying penalty

I suggest all take an honest look at what software is out there. Ive looked at just about any suggested. Im starting Xara and Corel trial versions this week. I am impressed by both and what they have done with 1/6->1/20 the revenue of adobe. They are both good about having free tutorials and tips and tricks. I know adobe does it but just seems so much better. They are also very good about telling you about the product and what it has to offer and where adobe is like "we are the market standard and need no introduction or explanation, you will be assimilated!"

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[jbjones]

MyCoalescence wrote:

...

I suggest all take an honest look at what software is out there. Ive looked at just about any suggested. Im starting Xara and Corel trial versions this week. I am impressed by both and what they have done with 1/6->1/20 the revenue of adobe. They are both good about having free tutorials and tips and tricks.

...

I've always found this bizzare. I'm always amazed how smaller companies are able to create software nearly as good as the market leader, charge less, and still thrive and make a profit.

It seems like when a software company becomes the market leader and/or has shareholders, they seem to run off the deep end with regards to making a profit. The problem with Adobe is that most of their software has reached a plateau where they contain nearly all features someone would need while simultaneously saturating the market. There are very few people who need the software but don't have it, and very few new features to be invented that would convince everyone to buy the software again.

They had a similar situation a few years ago when they started pushing the "suite" for the price of a few stand-alone apps. It was enough to convince many people to upgrade to the suite and get half a dozen apps they wouldn't buy out-right, but might find fun to play around with.

Basically they now have three options; create new innovative software for a different market, create a radically improved interface on existing features, or figure out how to charge repeatedly (subcription style) for the same software.

[MyCoalescence]

Yes I agree. Adobe has been a monopolist since it bought macromedia when I was in high school. I have taken 2 economics classes and am no expert but this I do know. Monopolies are bad for every one expect the monopolist. They become lazy, charge more, inefficient, innovate less (inovate is born of necessity) and stagnate until a competitor comes along. Its sad to see adobe at this point but I guess those who have been it longer as you notices could have seen adobes course. I dont think adobe and get into any more markets without being called an outright monoply and I dont think they are making any new innovation in the near future. CC shot them self in the foot. They spent so much time/money on cc it pulled away from their main purpose to innovate and stay ahead which has made cc have almost no upgrade value. Its like a 1/2 upgrade or less so far.

I will avoid subscriptions software as long as possible. I maybe 2020 before all software is that way but I will resist. I want to see some real competeition to adobe that makes them not be able to leverage thier possition as market leader.

[MyCoalescence]

Corel is running some amazing sales right now. If you have ever considered them now is the time to buy. 20-85% off everything + free shipping + free copy of motion design 3d a 100 value.

Looking to see what other are doing for black friday. Adobe does not really do seasonal sales or anything.

Just found out serif actually support AI/PSD which is great.

Just found out xara does not fully support open type and lacks many advanced type tools a graphic designer or typographer needs. That may be part of why I rarely hear any one speak highly of xara.

[rainschub]

Seems AVID also profits from "Adobe"s dark cloud behavior...

BtW: Didn´t they tell us in May, that they are working "hard" on solutions for those who are missing a serious buy-out???
Think they are working really hard.

So hard, that they forgot their security aspects...

[LouNettel]

I just saw an ad in Photoshop User magazine for a new editing software,

called Perfect Photo Suite 8, http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/suite8/.

It can be integrated with PS CS 5&6, LR 4&5, PSE 10 - 12, and Aperture 3.

Has anyone tried it and what are the PROS and CONS??

Maybe we have an editing software that isn't a Cash Cow!! Let's HOPE!!

[Megalodon]

Lou, there is a vast number of editing software available that allows you to OWN a license. Check out this thread over at CGTalk for a list of Adobe alternatives:.http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1107365