[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[TheTrueCharlieRabbit]

With regards to compatibility issues, it IS a problem. I was forced to upgrade from CS2 to CS5 when I found that I couldn't open simple layered files in CS2 which I had made in CS5. I was freelancing in ad agencies and I couldn't open files that I had kept for my portfolio on my computer back at home. I hadn't used any layer effects that were different between the two applications. At that point I decided that yes, it was probably time to upgrade. The thing about many Photoshop upgrades is that if you're a seasoned user, a lot of the new features aren't worth the upgrade and so it's worth waiting a while before coughing up for something that really makes a difference to your work process. Many of the new features seem to be targeted at people who don't realise that there are often already more effective ways of doing something, but they take more effort, skill and know how to achieve. Newbies who may have been using Photoshop for a couple of years are often excited by new features because they only see what Adobe are marketing to them and there is always so much hype about what's new. Quick fix features often don't give quality results and if you're working for print, this is important, but with many companies cutting corners to save costs, quality is taking a back seat. Instead of buying Adobe Upgrades because they are worth it, we now have to pay to be able to simply have access to the application that for many of us has become our livelihood.

[rosequill]

What you're describing is a 'forward' compatibility problem, not a backwards compatibility problem. You have no idea what you're rambling about. PS CC should be able to open Any CS6 file.

[Califdan]

Sally Cox runs a local Meetup group called "CreativeSuiteSanJose

(http://www.meetup.com/creativesuitesanjose/) and issued news release

(copied at the bottom). Here's my response....

Sally,

I know it's hard not to "drink the Kool-aid" when you're at a conference

like AdobeMax, but I hope you take a moment to understand the extreme

negative reaction Adobe's announcement about dropping Perpetual License has

caused. Literally tens of thousands of posts across the spectrum of forums

(Adobe, dpreview, etc.). This negative backlash is from folks who actually

do understand the new model and just plain think it's a disaster. In most

cases it results in double or triple the average annual cost over periodic

upgrading. A vast majority of people commenting are refusing to buy into CC

and will just milk whatever CS6 products they already have until another

company fills the void - and several such companies are already starting to

market to the hundreds of thousands of previously happy Adobe customers who

are abandoning Adobe in droves.

I, for one just got an upgrade to Photoshop CS6. I was actually quite happy

with CS5 and was waiting for CS7 to consider an upgrade, but as there will

be no CS7 I decided to spring for CS6 as the last Photoshop product I'll

ever buy. It seems that Lightroom 5 will still come out with a perpetual

license and I'll upgrade to that as well and if Adobe does the same thing to

that product it too will be my last version of Adobe's offering in the

Digital Asset Management class of products.

I don't know what your official association is with Adobe (if any) but you

may want to re-think the name change of your group to CC as that is quickly

becoming a negative term in the field of photographers. Remember "New

Coke", and the "NetFlix" debacle. This decision by Adobe seems to be headed

that way and you may not want to tie your coattails to a name with such

negative emotion surrounding it.

Dan

===============================================

From: creativesuitesanjose-announce@meetup.com

On Behalf Of Sally Cox

Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 11:18 PM

To: creativesuitesanjose-announce@meetup.com

Subject: re: AdobeMAX news and our May Photo Event

Hi everyone!

As most of you know, I just returned from AdobeMAX. I have posted on my blog

with some links you might find interesting - the fabulous intro video for

Monday's keynote (keep in mind as you watch it - i was in the 5th from the

front!) and links to the latest news on Creative Cloud.

Our group will be changing its name to Creative Cloud User Group of San Jose

- to keep in line with the changes. In case you are not aware, there will be

no more Creative Suite. All new versions of the creative products will be

"CC", i.e., Photoshop CC.

A few of you emailed me with concerns. Once you know the facts, I feel

confident you will understand the new direction Adobe is taking. (For

example, if you are just using Photoshop, you can buy it via Creative Cloud

for $9.99 a month.)

So here are a few things to note:

1) check out my blog for my AdobeMAX post:

http://www.kreatable.com

2) We are joining forces with other local user groups to hold an "AfterMAX"

event. This will give you the chance to see some new features of the

products, and get your questions answered. Stay tuned for details on that.

3) Don't forget to join with other members and post a photo in our May 2013

"My Town" photo album on this site. Find it here:

http://www.meetup.com/creativesuitesanjose/photos/14686682/

Have a great weekend, all!

Sally

--

This message was sent by Sally Cox (sallyslc@mac.com) from Adobe Creative

Suite User <http://www.meetup.com/creativesuitesanjose/> Group - San Jose.

[Califdan]

Let's say adobe creates a new adjustment layer type that does not exist in

CS5. You use the CC version of Photoshop, create an adjustment layer of

this new type, then save your PSD file. Later, you give up your CC

subscription when your bank account runs dry. If you then open that PSD

file with your Perpetual License version of CS5 you will have a problem

because the programming code that support the new adjustment layer type does

not exist in CS5. So, what will happen in this scenario? It's hard to

tell.

The existence of features in the PSD file that the SW doesn't know about may

prevent the file from opening at all (I've seen this happen in other cases),

or it may open but ignore that layer or may open without that layer present.

One never knows because it depends on the nature of the new feature, how

Adobe codes it, and how it manifests itself in the PSD file.

I don't know how old you let your SW get, but I am still running MS/Office

2003. When someone sends me a file from a later version, say 2012, when I

open the file many times I get a message about my SW being older and it runs

a converter I downloaded from MS for that purpose which downgrades the Word

or Excel file to my version of SW. Will Adobe provide such SW for people

who do not buy into the cloud? One never knows, but my bet is no.

Will this be an issue on day 1? Probably not. But as time goes by, and

Adobe adds more and more features and tools to the CC version of the

product, it's almost certain that some of them will produce structures in

the PSD file that CS 5 will not know how to decode or handle.

However if you save your work in some non proprietary format like TIFF or

even JPG, anything you did in CC will be baked into the file as pixels and

you'll be OK. But you'll never be able to changes whatever controls that

new adjustment layer type has - especially if it's a smart object.

Dan

[Pauls Sloss]

rosequill wrote:

I don't understand why people think there will be compatibility issues of any kind. Can you confirm this with cited factual information?

I know from experience. Native files from Indesign, Illustrator, Photoshop cannot be opened in previous full numbered versions of same software. New features in each software need to create saved states for some of the features you use, eg non destructive effects. You can save an interchange file in Indesign, dowsave an Illustrator file and save in compatiility mode in Photoshop but these format will lose any content that is tied to the new feature of the software you are using. You also can't collaborate with another designer on the same document if they have a different version of the software.

You can find references in Adobe's help files to working with previous versions of their software:

eg Indesign

http://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/kb/save-indesign-files-previous-versions.html

Note: Content created using features specific to your version of InDesign are sometimes modified or omitted when you open the document in the previous version. Therefore, carefully review any document opened in a previous version.

Illustrator:

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/illustrator/cs/using/WS714a382cdf7d304e7e07d0100196cbc5f-6561a.html#WS71...

Specifies the version of Illustrator with which you want your file to be compatible. Legacy formats don’t support all the features in the current version of Illustrator. Therefore, when you select a version other than the current version, some options for saving aren’t available, and certain kinds of data will be changed. Be sure to read the warnings at the bottom of the dialog box so that you are aware of how the data will be changed.

Photoshop:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4641216

Response from adobe staff:

CS6 files are backward compatible.

But when opening in an older version, you can get warnings about text layers, or lose some effects that are specific to CS6 (like strokes on shape layers).

[TheTrueCharlieRabbit]

There was a link to a petition at the start of this thread which seams to have disappeared.

If you do a search for "Adobe Systems Incorporated: Eliminate the mandatory "creative cloud" subscription model"  at   change.org, you can find it.

If Adobe state that the fact that 500, 000 people have signed up for the subscription service is proof that it's popular, then it would be interesting to see how "few" people sign this petition would it not?

[TheTrueCharlieRabbit]

I come from a multimedia background and I enjoy the ability to be able to combine the applications in Adobe Creative Suite as and when I need, which is why boxed versions suit me. While I work mainly in Photoshop I often use Illustrator to add small vector elements to my work. I occasionally need access to InDesign and I often use Acrobat. I work for myself. I use Dreamweaver to create my own personal web pages.

I explore and experiment with the applications in my own time, not on a monthly schedule. I don't know when I will need the use of all of them, but it's good to have them there when I need them. Having access to these application is useful to me and I have been willing to pay for a licence that covers the use of all of them because I enjoy using most of them even if I only use one application most of the time.

Adobe have sold us these programs as an interrelated package for over a decade and this is how many of us use these applications.

Adobe, you are making us slaves to your product. You have enticed us into the cage with candy and now you are shutting the door on us.

[skydiver119]

There are a lot of things you need to read between the lines for.

FIrst, Adobe promotes teh use of any existing CS6 license to open CC files....but as stated above, all it takes is a single 'feature' that's not backwards compatible and you can't open it, or it's corrupted when opened, or messed up.

Second, when asked about the 'what to use if my sub stops' the answer is to save your files in a non-propriatary format and open them in another program...but who writes the code to allow that? The very company that wants a montly fee to access your files. And, presumably, they also have to give access to that code to any competitor to allow them to write a conversion program.

It's kinda like living on an island with only one grocery store and continually being told that you're free to shop wherever you want.

The only way to avoid being backed into a dead end of perpetual payments is to not use CC at all. It's a one way street, and once you start down it, as of now, there is no reset button or way out.

[Kwan Parker]

If you watched  the linked youtube video, the sad but hilarious conclusion becomes . . . even Hitler . . . after an outraged and justified rant . . . ends up submissively ordering the Third Reich to "sign up."

[Picturequest]

I find this whole thing sad. I was a major Adobe promoter. I'd say I'm not a Windows or Mac user, I'm an Adobe user. 90% of my time I'm in Lightroom, Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat.

[KeeperoftheGate]

From the FAQ:

Can I purchase a perpetual license for the Creative Cloud desktop applications?

  

  No, CC versions of the desktop applications are not available as a perpetual license.

[MikeChambers]

fyi

We have made a blog post that discusses some of the concerns that have been brought up:

http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

[vincent solomito]

MikeChambers,

After reading the new CC staff blog It seems that Adobe may be showing some flexibility.

That would be smart.

vince

[FastFeet]

MikeChambers schrieb:

fyi

We have made a blog post that discusses some of the concerns that have been brought up:

http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-upd ate/

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Mike, why is it innovative not to be able to share certain file types?

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1204297

[FastFeet]

There was a very interesting post on the CC facebook page:

Ivan Morozov

A month before CC announcement, Adobe CEO sells half of his shares... Not sure what to make of this... http://www.insidermonkey.com/insider-trading/insider/narayen-shantanu/1224154/ 

[aidrice]

Yes, very interesting. Adobe's CEO Narayen Shantanu makes $9.75 Million from his stock sale on April 5th. On May 3rd (right before Adobe MAX conference) ADBE topped out at $47.01/share. It has been falling steadily since then and as of today is trading at $42.61, down 9.3% in less than a month. (Shantanu sold at $43.33.)

Let's see Adobe spin its way out of this one.

http://www.gurufocus.com/InsiderBuy.php?position=&insider=NARAYEN+SHANTANU

[Kwan Parker]

Yes, Adrienne, will be interesting to read how Adobe "staff" spins it.

What is it when corporate officers and others sell or buy stock on information not available to the public?  Whatever it might be called, kinda smells like something the SEC is charged with investigating and forwarding (or not) to a federal grand jury.

[Kwan Parker]

Through all my windows' and Adobe upgrades . . . and the long list of software Adobe abandoned which I owned and stuck with them none-the-less . . . never saw such prolonged outrage as this!

[Greg_Bohn]

Adobe may be setting some new 'personal best's here.

  Not only have they managed to evoke anger and outrage from many, they've even managed to elicit genuine hatred in some cases...

[aidrice]

Kwan Parker wrote:

Yes, Adrienne, will be interesting to read how Adobe "staff" spins it.

I hope Mike Chambers is polishing his resume. He deserves a better job than being a pawn in this clusterfrack.

[MikeChambers]

Adrienne Adams wrote:

Kwan Parker wrote:

Yes, Adrienne, will be interesting to read how Adobe "staff" spins it.

I hope Mike Chambers is polishing his resume. He deserves a better job than being a pawn in this clusterfrack.

I appreciate the concern for my future employement, but I wouldn't be on here if I didn't believe in the path we are taking.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

[W_J_T]

MikeChambers wrote:

I wouldn't be on here if I didn't believe in the path we are taking.

Likewise, obviously the world over would not have so many dissatisfied customers speaking against the Creative Cloud if they felt it was a viable and fair option being offered to them by Adobe.

[mwhals]

I have Photoshop CS6 and if CC7 is created and no CS7, then I am done with Adobe. I refuse to pay a monthly charge for something I can buy for less ($200 upgrade to PS CS7). I will use what I have now, but will abandon Adobe once I find there will be no CS7, CS8, etc.

At least Microsoft is only charging $99 a year for Office 360. I might consider Adobe at that price.

[Guest]

MikeChambers wrote:

Adrienne Adams wrote:

Kwan Parker wrote:

Yes, Adrienne, will be interesting to read how Adobe "staff" spins it.

I hope Mike Chambers is polishing his resume. He deserves a better job than being a pawn in this clusterfrack.

I appreciate the concern for my future employement, but I wouldn't be on here if I didn't believe in the path we are taking.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Well Mike Hittler had a whole country to support him her went down. The Titanic played music while people froze to death in the ocean. South korea has a whole country cheering for the use of nukes. So there you are beliving in the path your on. Well Mike Good for you and all the Adobe puppets on the web peddaling this mess.

You are  on the wrong side in the realm of survival this will be Adobes undoing! it is also the unethical side.

So I say belive what you want in time you can look back at this and reflect. Or Not what you do with your life is your choice. In  the area of graphics I choose to not spend a dime with Adobe Ever!!

As for what anyone deserves I think everyone at Adobe will get what they deserve soon enough!

[Guest]

While we are on the subject i wonder if the Adobe staff walk around all proud in there Black and red golf shirts. Do they take them off asap. I rember at NAB seeing Adobe people walking around in that uniform it reminded me of the meter maid just racking it in writting millions of dollars of parking tickets. So in the future at the trade shows will it feel akward walking around in those uniforms? knowing how we all hate you now? You may as well stand there naked for the odd loooks you will get.

Do your execs go to Blackhawk or what ever bay area contry club you attend  and get laughed at. I think probably not yet but in time. Even that crowed will shun you. It like blowing the superbowl or the big game. You think the public was hard on  Armstrong wait till you ruin ADOBE  you will be laughed at everywhere you go. If you crap on your costomer you will not be respected by other bussinessmen hands down.

Sorry Adobe staff but the stock is tanking and you will be shuned at trade shows. Yes your execs laughed at when they go to the contry club. The silver linning in the clud that you seek. Has baited you into betraying us. That silver is evaporating!