[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[Kwan Parker]

Truth is  . . . Adobe executives sold their shares to make best profits in advance of the Cloud announcement.  Don't know that to be true.

US SEC needs to investigate.  Worldwide, why in so many countries, in so many languages, why is the outrage against Adobe so uniform and against the Adobe Cloud?

Looking forward to Adobe's CEO appearance in some future federal grand jury to explain his stock sells.

[momo55]

http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/

Part of a quote from the above link, update...I also posted this on the Luminous Landscape...

"That said, through discussions with the community, we have heard some concerns around our move to Creative Cloud. Three main themes are coming through:

    File access. Customers want to be sure that, if their membership to Creative Cloud lapses, they will still have access to their files.

    Photographers, particularly photo-enthusiasts, are looking for a more tailored offering that focuses on their particular needs.

    Some customers are not convinced that Creative Cloud is right for them and would rather continue to purchase desktop applications as before."

Personally I wouldn't just want file access. I'd want to be able to continue to work on my files even after my cc subscription lapses. Why would I pay for software, theoretically for a number of years, and not want to be able to use it?

I'm not looking for a 'tailored offering'. I'm wanting something to replace Photoshop because it's no longer an option. Adobe has taken that choice away. It wasn't because I don't like Photoshop anymore.

Creative Cloud, for me, equals more expense, a lot more expense, less choice, and giving Adobe a link to my bank account. I have no desire to support the executives and shareholders at Adobe. Greed is greed. Subscription software just ain't never gonna be part of my monthly expenses.

Any trust or confidence I had in Adobe is just gone. This started last year with their announcements about upgrades ending every two to three versions and becoming every version. Now that's gone too.

They say we still have Photoshop Elements and Lightroom. For how long? And why would I trust them with announcements they make today? I've seen how easily they change their minds. I see how little I matter to Adobe.

Feel like it's time to abandon this ship. Why should I support a company with my money when they are telling me I no longer matter to them? For the meantime I'll continue to use photoshop CS6 and Lightroom, but will look for and experiment with alternatives. I just don't want to give Adobe any more of my money.

I played with Pixelmator for a few weeks and just bought it. 14 euros. Not much money. Sure, it isn't Photoshop, but I like the feeling of supporting a company that may eventually give Adobe some competition. I hope the folks at Pixelmator continue to grow. Hope for others as well. NIK. onOne. Capture 1. Aperture. Topaz. I'm hoping they jump on this opportunity and give Adobe the competition they truly need.

Yes, there's some stress about change. But I'd rather deal with that stress than with a company I no longer trust or have confidence in.

Bad business attitude. Take this or nothing. We don't need 10 percent of our old customers. They just no longer matter. Thanks Adobe. Got the message. Think I'll spend my money elsewhere.

[Biggles Lamb]

I have not been on this thread for a while.

In an earlier post someone said that the Adobe Exec sold shares prior to the CC annoncement

Elsewhere the Adobe reports indicated that there woud be an initial loss in the market

Now to me selling shares that you know the price will be effected detrimentally by a forthcoming announcement is wrong and is there not a name for that..............insider dealing................and is that not illegal?

[bababongatwo]

Xactly. An "File acess" only is also an absolute NoGo - nearly the same as I have no access. I not only want, I MUST have full, editable File-access to my clients file. I have to guaranty that to my industrial clients by contract (that´s usual). Beside all the other evil of the cloud - This is the main fact, why I will never be seen in their cloud. And they already announced, that they will not change the cloud distribution in that way.
Has Adobe ever heard the word "Archive"? What are their users doing, which are designing catalogs (which are nearly ever build on older files)? A Fair Trailer which should be updated with a new text-layer only?
An absolute NoGo.

As Adobe didn´t response to all the concerns all over the web threw the last three weeks, my point is made behind this brand. Hasta la Vista.
Thanks to all the Programmers who made my brushes and tools in the last 22 yeras.
But your leader ship can be blown away with the wind on their sugar glossy cloud.

[bababongatwo]

If Adobe would buy a solution on that base to keep my files - I would never become be a client of them.
And I also think, they would never buy that themselve.

[TheCoroner9]

MikeChambers wrote:

Adrienne Adams wrote:

Kwan Parker wrote:

Yes, Adrienne, will be interesting to read how Adobe "staff" spins it.

I hope Mike Chambers is polishing his resume. He deserves a better job than being a pawn in this clusterfrack.

I appreciate the concern for my future employement, but I wouldn't be on here if I didn't believe in the path we are taking.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Unfortunately Mike, that's the real problem many Adobe users see. Too many at Adobe actually believe in the path that you are on.

Many users do not. That's a huge problem for any business when there is that much of a disconnect with your user base no matter how much Adobe kool-aid you drink.

Honestly the only thing CC has accomplished in my eyes is taken a software package that we love and made us hate Adobe and not want to use or recommend their software.

[W_J_T]

Adrienne Adams wrote:

Yes, very interesting. Adobe's CEO Narayen Shantanu makes $9.75 Million from his stock sale on April 5th. On May 3rd (right before Adobe MAX conference) ADBE topped out at $47.01/share. It has been falling steadily since then and as of today is trading at $42.61, down 9.3% in less than a month. (Shantanu sold at $43.33.)

Kwan Parker wrote:

What is it when corporate officers and others sell or buy stock on information not available to the public?  Whatever it might be called, kinda smells like something the SEC is charged with investigating and forwarding (or not) to a federal grand jury.

Maybe Narayen Shantanu should call Martha Stewart and get some advice?

[Greg_Bohn]

MikeChambers wrote:

fyi

We have made a blog post that discusses some of the concerns that have been brought up:

http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-upd ate/

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

"We were thrilled with customer adoption leading up to the announcement on May 6th, with over 80% of people purchasing on Adobe.com selecting Creative Cloud. That momentum continues today."

  That doesn't really say too much. The only current choices are to 'upgrade' to last years deprecated version, or subscribe to the new model.

  So, if 80% of those who still chose to buy now bought the subscription model, then that's not too surprising given the choices. Some number of people would have bought the subscription model even without the change.

  And, if many of the people who don't want the subscription model stayed away, then of course the numbers would be skewed in favor of the subscription model.

  And, if only 5 people made purchases, and 4 people bought the subscription model, you could still trumpet an 80% acceptance figure. (Obviously we have no way of knowing the actual sales numbers).

[Jeff_Know1]

Blog post:
File access. Customers want to be sure that, if their membership to Creative Cloud lapses, they will still have access to their files.

I don't just want to have access to my files; I want to continue to fully use the programs as they are intended to be used.

I understand the business model 'Software as a Service'. It works great for virus scanners, firewalls and things like that. It works great because it is 'only' a service. You don't create files that you heavily rely on for your work with a virus scanner or a firewall.

Adobe programs just aren't meant to work as SaaS. The problem is that everything around the Cloud does function as SaaS. I'm talking about Behance/ProSite/Cloud storage etc. This causes the core Adobe programs to be dragged into the Cloud in order to make the added SaaS features successful.

Blog post:

Creative Cloud also allows us to explore new areas in mobile apps, helping you collaborate better and build a meaningful worldwide community to share work and find inspiration.

If Adobe wants a piece of the 'Social Media Community' pie, that's fine. But to make that the core selling point isn't giving Adobe products enough credit. But that's what you're doing by moving to a subscription only model. You are putting the emphasis on the 'extra's'.

Photoshop doesn't need to have access to Behance/Facebook/Twitter or whatever. This isn't Farmville or Angry birds. What's next? Being able to unlock achievements? Used the new "Camera Shake Reduction" feature, 50 points.

This is not why we choose to use Adobe programs... We are using Adobe programs because we can rely on them to get the job done. The extra Cloud services are fine, but those Cloud services are not more important than the core programs themselves.

Not that I'm against all these Cloud services, but including EVERYTHING in the Cloud and only the Cloud is wrong. The Cloud services should be an add-on that you can pay for every month.

This makes a lot of sense because the Cloud is SaaS. The programs however are not. That's why you first need to have a perpetual license, and then you can decide whether you want to upgrade to a Cloud subscription and get all the added services/features.

1) If you cancel your membership in the current Cloud model... You're screwed.

2) If the Cloud was an add-on and you cancel your membership.... You're fine.

What's wrong with option number 2? If we cancel our Cloud membership, just cut off access to all the Cloud features/services, but don't cut off access to our main programs. As you can tell, this is kind of a big deal to us. A dealbreaker really.

[bababongatwo]

Great Statement! Really!!

Can agree to every fact you wrote.

Hope they will be punished by market, that they willn never find a way back from their cloud to earth!!!!

[Andy Bay]

Good post!

The "Creative Cloud" is really just smokes and mirrors to try to cover up their motives for a forced subscription model. What Adobe is offering here has very little to do with what is traditionally meant with cloud computing. The question remains how stupid does Adobe think it's customers are.

I think Adobe is not only doing a disservice to themselves but actually to the whole cloud industry. They are really giving cloud computing a bad name. This might even end up creating a larger consumer backlash and paranoia against real cloud services.

[msqrddd]

I find this to be perhaps more apt than any extensive, exhaustive article or analysis on the subject. It really should be the logo of the change.org initiative:

https://www.brandsoftheworld.com/logo/adobe-creative-cloud

[bababongatwo]

I think there shoud also bee an "Made without Adobe" logo, like the former "Made with macromedia".
That can become a sing against monopoly markets.

[TheCoroner9]

Remembering back at all the feature requests from Adobe users, I don't recall ever seeing or hearing about one for subscription only software for Cash Cow.

Bababongatwo, you're not the only one done with them. The line is forming and getting really long.

[W_J_T]

MikeChambers wrote:

We have made a blog post that discusses some of the concerns that have been brought up:

http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-upd ate/

- That said, through discussions with the community, we have heard some concerns around our move to Creative Cloud. Three main themes...

- Some customers are not convinced that Creative Cloud is right for them and would rather continue to purchase desktop applications as before.

- we have no plans to change our focus on Creative Cloud. We understand this is a big change and for customers who are not yet ready to move, we will continue to offer CS6 products through our reseller partners and Adobe.com.

If the 3 things listed on that blog post are the only issues Adobe has heard and understood from all the outcry from customers then Adobe just plain is not willing to listen. A rather frivolous post given all the concerns that are being discussed by customers and not heard by Adobe by way of an unwillingness to do so. Creative Cloud or CS6 abandon-ware, same story regarding lack of viable choices just a different summary is all that blog post seems to be.

[MikeChambers]

W_J_T wrote:

If the 3 things listed on that blog post are the only issues Adobe has heard and understood from all the outcry from customers then Adobe just plain is not willing to listen.

This is addressed in the post. Specifically "That said, through discussions with the community, we have heard some concerns around our move to Creative Cloud. Three main themes are coming through".

i.e. we are focusing this post on the three main themes we have been hearing. No where in there does it say these are the ONLY things we have heard.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

[W_J_T]

MikeChambers wrote:

i.e. we are focusing this post on the three main themes we have been hearing. No where in there does it say these are the ONLY things we have heard.

So Adobe feels those are the three main things / most crucial? Well, If that is the first "official public response" to customers outcries then I say Adobe got it completely wrong. With all that is being conveyed by customers via various communication channels this is a pretty unempathetic response to all those serious concerns being voiced towards Adobe on it's Cloud decision.

In regards to #3 so is it, or is it not = Creative Cloud or CS6 abandon-ware, as the only choice Adobe is planning to offer? You stated it yourself in the comments on a blog post.

[MikeChambers]

W_J_T wrote:

In regards to #3 so is it, or is it not = Creative Cloud or CS6 abandon-ware, as the only choice Adobe is planning to offer? You stated it yourself in the comments on a blog post.

Our future path and focus is around Creative Cloud, we are not changing that. Any solutions to concerns will be within the framework of Creative Cloud, and not the old perpetual model.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

[Terrachild]

Adobe said...

We understand this is a big change and for customers who are not yet ready to move...

Adobe...you are not listening!

"Not yet ready to move..."  implies that you simply plan to wait us out.

I would have upgraded, again, to CS7

Now I won't, and not because of my choice, but because you took that choice away from me.

I will never move to CC!

You have lost thousands of dollars I would have paid you over the coming years.

Multiply that by the millions of people who will never move to the CC, and what do you get?

A loss of Billions of dollars, and an army of formerly loyal customers who are now beginning to hate Adobe, and who will spare no opportunity to bad-mouth them at businesses, on forums, in classrooms, at Siggraph and other conventions...etc.

Adobe, honest to god, are you guys all high?

Creative people don't respond to this kind of treatment.

Maybe you thought you could get away with it because companies like Microsoft are trying it out with Office.

Well, guess what?  Office is primarily a business tool bought by business people for businesses.

That is not your customer base.

You have badly miscalculated!

[Terrachild]

To the Adobe staff, look in the mirror.

“Never argue with a man whose job depends on not being convinced.” -- H.L. Mencken

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

[MikeChambers]

Terrachild wrote:

To the Adobe staff, look in the mirror.

“Never argue with a man whose job depends on not being convinced.” -- H.L. Mencken

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

Im not trying to convince you of anything. I am trying to explain what we are doing, why, and what our plans are. I think all of our communications have been pretty clear in that we understand not everyone is going to go down this path with us.

So, let me be really clear. Terrachild, I understand that you want us to sell our future creative software as a perpetual licenses. I get that. Adobe gets that. But we have also decided that we are going to go in another direction and focus on Creative Cloud, and an offering that extends beyond just desktop applications. At the end of the day, we know that means we may lose you as a customer. We hope it doesn't, and we are actively exploring solutions within the context of Creative Cloud that will address many of the concerns.

We think this is the right direction, but it is up to us to build out and show the value in what we are offering. If we don't, we will fail, if we do, then we will suceed.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

[squarepixelllc]

So I am done following this post.

But in closing, like it or not, what is your alternative? There is none, not for the working professional. If you can do without adobe, then you are not really working in the professional design field. I will keep up with creative cloud because it is cheaper than buying the master suite every time it comes out, maybe if the rest of you leave it will get cheaper and they will change it. But for those who depend on the tools to do there day job, I doubt many will leave.

[Philip Byrne]

For you, squarepixellic, it may be economical to subscribe to CC. For me? A loyal customer who has updated to every version of CS Design Standard since CS2? Let me enlighten you: my CS6 update cost me €283.00 whereas a year's subscription to CC would cost me €737.88. And before anyone jumps in with "OMG, what about all the other great software?", I neither want it nor need it.

As for this ridiculous announcement: http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/? Smoke and mirrors. If Adobe thinks that CC "complainers" (http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/11/adobe-creative-cloud-interview/?goback=%2Egde_75556_member_2402069...) will be happy with CS6 for the rest of our working lives, they're sadly wrong. There will apparently be a stable, yearly build of all software (so CC members can fall back on it if updates are not compatible with their systems, etc.) so I can not see why they won't simply label this CSX and offer it for sale - and let me be specific here - to own. Let the CC subscribers benefit from all the immediate, wonderful cutting-edge innovations. Let the rest of us get on with our work.

[W_J_T]

squarepixelllc wrote:

So I am done following this post.

Second time you have made that declaration.

squarepixelllc wrote:

If you can do without adobe, then you are not really working in the professional design field.

No offense, but this reminds me of your previous misinformed statements that I pointed out previously (pg 13, post 509) in my response to you.

[W_J_T]

MikeChambers wrote:

I think all of our communications have been pretty clear

Pretty clear? Clearly absent and unattached to what customers are saying and asking, yes.

Again, If that is the first "official public response" to customers outcries then I say Adobe got it completely wrong. With all that is being conveyed by customers via various communication channels this is a pretty un-empathetic response to all those serious concerns being voiced towards Adobe on it's Cloud decision.