CSS Grid and Variables
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So to be clear, I have been a loyal supporter of DW since before Adobe acquired it from Macromedia, I owned GoLive and used it for many years, but I have to say I am very disappointed in the support we have today for CSS Grid and Variables - two things that are destined to make design for the web a shit ton easier... Adobe is way behind the curve on these... since Oct of 2017 this, put simply, has been the only way to design for the web. Nothing else makes sense. I believe I am moving to MS VS Code, because it is even better than Brackets in responding to the evolution of the web. But I want the powers that be at Adobe to know why they have lost my loyalty and my money... and to those struggling designers out there that wish to keep up. The clear choice is VS Studio Code - it is FREE, it works and it supports the latest algorithms published by the leading web browsers... you can see changes in your advanced CSS in real time... no preprocessors, no git, no bs.
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A coder is not necessarily bound to producing a web site for a living. Just ask ALsp​ when he codes his extensions for Dreamweaver. or ask Mozilla when they coded Firefox. A web developer, on the other hand, needs to produce a web site or he will not be making a living for long.
So I am none the wiser. what is a Professional Web Developer. I can make an assumption about the Professional part, which is most likely associated with financial rewards, but I still do not have a definition of what constitutes a Web Developer.
One of my clients has told me to create a payment gateway for Credit Card Processing - Accept Credit Cards Anywhere | Square . Is that a task for a Web Developer? I have made similar payment gateways using PayPal which was easy compared to Square. So if a Professional Web Developer can set me on the right trail, I would be most grateful.
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Web developer or web coder, there is no definitive answer as to the requirerments. We have even started to have people describe themselves as web development engineers.
All the articles defining the definitions on the web are aimed at course requirerments, (that they are offering), self gratifications of what the author does (so must be the definitive definition), or justifications for a particular skill set being asked for or offered.
Really it is all just a way of asking for more money , be that for employment, from the client or the software companies for the programs we use.
For me the term web developer covers the entire range of skills that one must know in order to produce a custom e-commerce site or application. With the back end techs being those that the web developer must use, and as defined by the sites server set-up. So you could be a web developer full stack, who knows front end, but specialises in developing with a C# + mssql back-end, or a php + mysql back-end, (add your own combination).
What the term web developer does not mean for me is, someone who just codes, just uses drag and drop, cannot work without frameworks or extensions, or someone who does not know how the entire process from initial site/app planning, to the production of the end site/app product works, (the going live part).
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BenPleysier wrote
So if a Professional Web Developer can set me on the right trail, I would be most grateful.
How much are you paying?
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Nah! I've already put too much time into it, even had to install SSL on my local server to make the darn (d a r n) thing work for testing. Should be finished soon.
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BenPleysier wrote
More importantly, what is understood under the term Professional Web Developer?
Obviously not me - just spent 2 months putting a website together creating back-end app as well, now the client has decided they dont like it much after selecting one of the optional working versions I showed them and want me to start again after seeing something else they like
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We get that a lot, here.
"Uh, hey, yeah, so.. we know you gave us exactly what we wanted and asked for, but we don't want that, anymore. Can you change that, for us?"
V/r,
^ _ ^
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WolfShade wrote
We get that a lot, here.
"Uh, hey, yeah, so.. we know you gave us exactly what we wanted and asked for, but we don't want that, anymore. Can you change that, for us?"
V/r,
^ _ ^
At least I'm in good company. Thing is they provided nothing much to start with so I was kind of making it up as I went along and thought well given the amount of information I was provided I havent made a bad job of it.
I was even told as I was going along, website is looking good and made several updates amendments at the request of the client...........today its a complete change of direction.
As long as they have deep pockets I dont really care but I know there's going to be a lot of playing the blame game. This project was started in Dec 2016, initial working prototypes, was eventually given the go-ahead in Dec 2017 and here we are today no further ahead so it seems.
I might be able to rescue some of it.
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One word Os -
Retirerment .
Best thing I ever did.
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pziecina wrote
One word Os -
Retirerment .
Best thing I ever did.
You're not kidding. I'm actually thinking about walking away from this one as I suspect the client will ask for Bootstrap/Wordpress.....the site they have seen uses Wordpress.
Its how to bow out gracefully and still get paid for the 2 months + I've worked on the project over a 14 months period. Started Dec 2016 - now March 2018 not been paid a single penny yet..........hummm.
Im beginning to think its just not worth the effort and stress dealing with ignorant clients who only wise up and tell you want they like, once the website is almost ready to go live. I know why they like this other competitors website because it has better quality, more dynamic, interesting images than the ones they provided, someone has taken the trouble to sit down and write the content specificially for it rather than the few paragraphs of text I was provided with.........makes a heck of a difference. And nothing is going to change because they dont have the better quality images and they dont have the desire to sit down and write the text.....so we just go around and around in a circle, currently at my expense and time.
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Nice Reply: I feel your pain and if it helps, I'm with you.
Nasty Reply: How the hell can you let this get out of hand. Do you not have a contract that states a total amount that has to be paid and at which intervals? To my reckoning, 2 months equates to 350 hours @ £50/hr = £16,000. Not with you on this one.
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BenPleysier wrote
Nasty Reply: How the hell can you let this get out of hand. Do you not have a contract that states a total amount that has to be paid and at which intervals? To my reckoning, 2 months equates to 350 hours @ £50/hr = £16,000. Not with you on this one.
You're right of course but Im one of those that use the 'sell by sight' method and pay at the end of the project. That way there is no comittment by either parties (until the work is commissioned). I like to walk away forma project early if I start working with a client that I dont share any mutal understanding with. If that costs me a couple of days of working prototyes for free I can live with that because I'll use those prototypes to sell to another client. Maybe that's unusual in your neck of the woods but its quite usual here in the UK, I think.
I have no idea why it took the client a year for them to commission the work based on one of the original prototypes but at that stage if it had not gone ahead I would have only spent a max of 2 days on the job.
You make 8k a month - I'm moving to AUS. Nice living if you can get it
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osgood_ wrote
Im beginning to think its just not worth the effort and stress dealing with ignorant clients who only wise up and tell you want they like, once the website is almost ready to go live. I know why they like this other competitors website because it has better quality, more dynamic, interesting images than the ones they provided, someone has taken the trouble to sit down and write the content specificially for it rather than the few paragraphs of text I was provided with.........makes a heck of a difference. And nothing is going to change because they dont have the better quality images and they dont have the desire to sit down and write the text.....so we just go around and around in a circle, currently at my expense and time.
I have to admit that when I read the problems many people had/have with clients and content, I realise just how lucky I was with the organisation I worked for, as in the 15 years I worked for them in web development, (worked with them for a number of years before) I never once had any such problems. In fact my problems were often just the opposite, in that until hd and hi-dpi became common, I often had complaints about the lack of quality when it came to videos and images, (now you understand why srcset etc was so important for me).
As for written content, that was for tech writers and content quality controls problem, not mine.
My problems were more often in functionality, as they often required cutting edge features, which had very little helpful info for how to implement.
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pziecina wrote
I have to admit that when I read the problems many people had/have with clients and content, I realise just how lucky I was with the organisation I worked for, as in the 15 years I worked for them in web development, (worked with them for a number of years before) I never once had any such problems. In fact my problems were often just the opposite, in that until hd and hi-dpi became common, I often had complaints about the lack of quality when it came to videos and images, (now you understand why srcset etc was so important for me).
As for written content, that was for tech writers and content quality controls problem, not mine.
My problems were more often in functionality, as they often required cutting edge features, which had very little helpful info for how to implement.
I can rescue the job I think, now I actually know what they are looking for visually/stylewise. Its a matter of changing up the crap images for some better stock quality images, changing the typeface and tweaking the layout and colors a little bit. Its amazing how good quality images improve the apperance of a layout by 100%. I dont think they know or appreciate that and expect crap images to somehow 'cut the mustard'. As for the content well that will be theirproblem.....should I continue with the job. I'm in 2 minds at the moment because they seem the kind of client that takes ages to make any kind of decision and when they do they eventually decide its not the right one.
Have to get tough, I can do that if someone upsets me for sure. I'm a lethal weapon if someone ruffle my feathers to much
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pziecina wrote
Retirerment . Best thing I ever did.
Are you a retired professional then, or still freelancing / consulting, teaching, or just relaxing ?
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W_J_T wrote
pziecina wrote
Retirerment . Best thing I ever did.
Are you a retired professional then, or still freelancing / consulting, teaching, or just relaxing ?
A little of all the last three.
The best part is that I can pick and choose the what, when and how, plus the pension(s) when added together are very, very good.
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pziecina wrote
W_J_T wrote
pziecina wrote
Retirerment . Best thing I ever did.
Are you a retired professional then, or still freelancing / consulting, teaching, or just relaxing ?
A little of all the last three.
The best part is that I can pick and choose the what, when and how, plus the pension(s) when added together are very, very good.
I've got to learn to say NO. Problem is I keep getting approached and to be quite honest its becoming a huge headache. I dont mind dealing with organised people that know what they want but I mostly deal with clients who dont have a clue.
I'm getting to the stage where 'its my way or go away'
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I don't know how close you are to retirement Os, but when one has a good pension I have found that clients, companies, etc, tend to behave themselves much more, probably because they realise you are not dependent on them for a living.
The one thing I would advise is not to retire completely, (just collect the pension(s)) but limit what you do to 30 or so (max) hours per month, and get a retainer from every client, (be that for consulting, teaching, or whatever).
I'm no longer an acp, so I refuse to answer any Dw, (or Dw code) related questions, plus I now get VS Pro and MS Office free for some of my 'other' work.
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pziecina wrote
I don't know how close you are to retirement Os, but when one has a good pension I have found that clients, companies, etc, tend to behave themselves much more, probably because they realise you are not dependent on them for a living.
I'm ok financially (I can afford a couple of cans of baked beans per day - that's luxury where I come from) so I don't often pander to a clients needs. Infact as you say the more you argue with them the greater the possibility they will use you because they are convinced you know what youre talking about even though you might not. It's 'call my bluff' when you get to our age.
pziecina wrote
The one thing I would advise is not to retire completely, (just collect the pension(s)) but limit what you do to 30 or so (max) hours per month, and get a retainer from every client, (be that for consulting, teaching, or whatever).
I don't really like doing a whole project from start to finish these days because 90% of it is too boring. 10% is exciting. Its the discovering 'new' which excites me and you dont do that when you are stuck coding very similar pages.
pziecina wrote
I'm no longer an acp, so I refuse to answer any Dw, (or Dw code) related questions, plus I now get VS Pro and MS Office free for some of my 'other' work.
Me neither. There are very few code related questions in this forum any longer. I just stick around because I can't find the 'exit' door.
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osgood_ wrote
Me neither. There are very few code related questions in this forum any longer. I just stick around because I can't find the 'exit' door.
I just stick around to annoy people .
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pziecina wrote
I just stick around to annoy people .
I didnt want to take the risk of saying anything too contoversial because l suspect big brother is monitoring my acivity and will start closing me down again. For the past few days moderation seems to have stopped so you can actually hold a reasonable conversation in here.
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Congrats, concerning your retirement and towards your continued endeavors.
pziecina wrote
I now get VS Pro ... free
So in essence you are the same as the other professionals that use free IDE's. [ Just kidding, no need to start it up again. ]
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Thank you.
Now about these people who are getting MS Office for free .
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I cant for the life of me work out this moderation stuff. Just replied to another OPs question and it got caught in the moderation bin, replied to this one and no moderation......[cursing removed by moderator] is going on. Would the person that is responsive for the forums like to actually make an appearance and tell us all how it works (if they actually know).....I forget the persons name but last issue I had with them they were about as intelligent as a dead bannana.
Oh the silence is deafening when it really matters!
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I think the moderation for none acp's is dependant on if you are replying to someone who is subject to moderation.
If they are not moderated then your reply is not.
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I've been using DW since shortly before Allaire was acquired by Macromedia. I'm not exactly thrilled with a lot of things that Adobe does. I was especially incensed when Adobe removed CF support from DW. I have been very critical of Adobe in the past, and have a sneaking suspicion that I will for a while.
I have CC 13.1 on this workstation, and DW CS5.5 on my development system, and the difference is night and day - CS5.5 is way better than CC 13.1. And don't get me started on CFB. Whomever thought it was a good idea to remove any possibility of activating an application unless there is an internet connection should be fired. Our development network is air-gapped from the internet, so we can't use CFB. Which is oddly comforting because I've seen CFB3 and didn't like anything about it. But that's another thread.
I can get extensions (I think?) to put the CF support back in to CC. I know that can be done in Brackets, but I can't get used to the way Brackets previews in browser.
The point is, have you checked to see if there are any extensions that can accomplish what you are seeking? Even though they removed the Extension Manager, I believe you can still install extensions.
V/r,
^ _ ^

