Is Dreamweaver the next to go?

[BenPleysier]

Adobe Muse Product Announcement

[osgood_]

Yikes that is really, really defeatest. Only 8 years some bits of web software hav ebeen going 20+ years. What is going on inside Adobe I ask myself.

All those people who yet again have been sold a pup, much like fluid grids, have invested a lot of time in understanding how a program works, all wasted unless you want to live in a past world and slowly fade away.

Maybe they have bought Wappler........something very fishy going on here.

Maybe Adobe itself is in freefal.

Looks like Business Catalyst has gone as well:

Adobe announces the End of Life for Business Catalyst

[-Michele]

Dreamweaver is already dead for several years... most users use the old CS6, definitely not the last two versions (2017/2018).

For Adobe Muse and Business Catalyst I think the reasons for their closure is to be found in drastic changes at the web development level in recent years, WordPress has become the reference point (at least here in Italy), the companies themselves ask for it and most of them look for ready-to-use templates/websites.

[B i r n o u]

where are you from in Italia ?

[-Michele]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  ha scritto

where are you from in Italia ?

Vicenza, city in northeastern Italy (Vicenza - Wikipedia )

[B i r n o u]

every year since a while we go at Lignano Sabbiadoro... for a couple of weeks during the HabaWaba festival (waterpolo)

[pziecina]

Is Dw the next to go?

The question I would ask is, "does it make any difference"?

Adobe announced last year in a video conference that it intended to rationalise its product line-up, and concentrate on its core products. Reading the reasons why in the Muse announcement, the dropping of flash content and other Adobe 'product' plug-ins by browsers, add to that the steady demise of other Adobe web releated products, then all I can say is, "watching the development of Dw over the last few years, has been like watching a train crash in slow motion".

[B i r n o u]

yep... I agree... and I will add when reading your question "Does it make any difference"... maintaining or not DW developement wont change anything... currently more and more users leave DW... for old versions or alternative solution...

on prerelease there are I think 4 active person... and one message a week... so one can't say that there is any effervescence... just hey we add this... can you test ? please ?... but except marketing... non one ask for this add

so keeping dw on board or not... wont change anything...

[pziecina]

My way of looking at it is, so long as I have my cd with CS6 and I can write extensions to up-date the code support, CS6 will be all I require. I have even put off upgrading my computers internals and checking that I can roll-back windows 10 up-dates, just to make certain it still runs without problems.

Maybe that is the problem with Dw, CS6 is so easy to extend with self built or paid for extensions, that for web development the CC versions, (all products required for the web) simply did not offer enough to make the cost worthwhile.

As for the pre-release, the Dw team and a number of cab members are responsible in my opinion. Telling participants not to criticise, to leave if they don't use Dw, ignoring participants posts, and that modern w3c spec support is not required. Is not the way to encourage participation.

As for server-side, Dw killed that off itself years ago.

[W_J_T]

That is a surprising turn of events.

Or is it? Given that Adobe cant seem to wisely forecast past their nose what to do, focus on or develop. Muse, Edge, and on down the line of failed applications and workflow endeavors. So many hours, months years wasted repeatedly by Adobe. All the while their core flagship products sink into despair for the lack of any real innovation or keeping up with the times.

What the *@#$%;-) are they even doing ? Oh yeah thats right, collecting Cash Cloud payments, they no longer need to worry about things as long as the marketing works and enough people buy in.

[W_J_T]

As expected it's not a pretty sight over in the Muse Forum right now ....

EDIT: Yippie post moderation is back!

[pziecina]

I don't really have very much sympathy with Muse users, except in that the alternative recommended product, (Adobe Spark) is not ready for use, and has no real info available.

The ones I feel sorry for are the BC users, as trying to convert BC code to another server-side code for anything more than a small site, could be a very large undertaking, and the question of 'who pays' for what, is one I would not like to ask a client.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

I don't really have very much sympathy with Muse users

I think my words of wisdom in terms of how important it is to be able to code has been vindicated. Without it you are literally in the hands of someone elses decision making.

[Jon Fritz]

#truth

When I was a GL user, I was stuck doing whatever GL could do, which was enough in most situations. It felt like the rug was pulled out from under me when Adobe killed it. There was nothing even remotely similar to GL at the time. It forced me to learn how to code and I already had DW as part of the Master Collection, so...

In the beginning I thought there was no way I would be able to get my hand coded sites to work as well as my GL sites did. That lasted a few months. After about a year, I realized how limited GL actually was. After two, I laughed about the idea of ever using GL again.

It's nice to know that if DW decided to pull the plug tomorrow, I'd be no worse for wear.

[BHindy765]

It is not that I don’t know how to code, it is that designing/coding takes many more hours and makes profitability difficult.  The Muse / Business Catalyst solutions was ideal for efficiency with a excellence ecosystem of tools.

[osgood_]

Sure l understand that, its as a result of the crap world we live in today, pile it high sell it cheap and look whats happening all around you, companies, shops and software cant compete in an increasingly cut throat environment.  We are our own worst enemies.

[W_J_T]

osgood_​ , indeed learning HTML / CSS / Javascript - always was and remains the best and most secure decision a person can make whom wishes to work in the web space.

pziecina  wrote

I don't really have very much sympathy with Muse users

I certainly have compassion for them.

These are WYSIWYG people, designers. Who no doubt learned a product and its workflow based upon the Adobe marketed ideal that "they too can be web designers". Most probably bought and invested in many Muse Widgets, perhaps investing in many Muse Templates as well. They created their own site as well as client sites. Now this news comes tumbling down and it must be devastating that their entire eco system has been turned to ruins by Adobe.

[pziecina]

W_J_T  wrote

I certainly have compassion for them.

These are WYSIWYG people, designers. Who no doubt learned a product and its workflow based upon the Adobe marketed ideal that "they too can be web designers". Most probably bought and invested in many Muse Widgets, perhaps investing in many Muse Templates as well. They created their own site as well as client sites. Now this news comes tumbling down and it must be devastating that their entire eco system has been turned to ruins by Adobe.

Sorry but no.

charging money and not knowing what you are actually doing is all Muse offered. Muse users call themselves professional web designers, they are not.

[W_J_T]

pziecina  wrote

Sorry but no.

charging money and not knowing what you are actually doing is all Muse offered. Muse users call themselves professional web designers, they are not.

Nope. ^

It's all relative pziecina​ . Sorry you cant seem to see or sympathize with their plight, or for that matter the intent of what I wrote.

As per your definition, many likewise using Dreamweaver and a plethora of other more advanced tools are in the same boat. Improperly calling or thinking of themselves as professionals, all the while not truly knowing that they are doing even though they charge for it. Everyone and their cousin is a self proclaimed "Full Stack Developer" nowadays. I am more concerned regarding those people than designers using any WYSIWYG tool.

[ALsp]

Sorry you cant seem to see or sympathize with their plight, or for that matter the intent of what I wrote.

Sympathy is good. It's cleansing. It gives us insight into the human condition and allows us to see beyond the moral cesspool that modern society has built. I like sympathy.

As per your definition, many likewise using Dreamweaver and a plethora of other more advanced tools are in the same boat. Improperly calling or thinking of themselves as professionals, all the while not truly knowing that they are doing even though they charge for it. Everyone and their cousin is a self proclaimed "Full Stack Developer" nowadays. I am more concerned regarding those people than designers using any WYSIWYG tool.

I truly believe that the regulars here do not understand who really uses Dreamweaver. But it does not matter in the overall scheme of things. Sometimes I'll repair a plumbing or electrical issue in my house because I like tinkering with stuff. But I am not a professional plumber or electrician. To criticize people for not being coders is extremely shallow. Some just like to create. Some of them have advanced degrees. Some may even but rocket scientists. Perhaps it is something that makes a "coder" feel better about him or herself .

In any event, one could write a book on the mistakes Adobe has made with Dreamweaver. Some could also make a case that Adobe's ineptitude opened the door for the WordPress and plethora of free or inexpensive editors and services.

Whatever will be, will be. It is what it is and, most importantly, if it's not one thing it's another.

[pziecina]

You may repair an electrical issue, but would you completely re-wire your home?

That's what I mean by someone being a professional. A professional can do whatever is necessary, not just tinker and then think they can offer others a complete professional service, complete with a full re-wire of a home service.

[W_J_T]

Fun. You choose to ignore my comment, instead using a non-related analogy, so nothing new offered there. It still does not address anything concerning your lack of empathy. But yes I can rewire my own house, thanks for inquiring.

[pziecina]

W_J_T  wrote

Fun. You choose to ignore my comment, instead using a non-related analogy, so nothing new offered there. It still does not address anything concerning your lack of empathy. But yes I can rewire my own house, thanks for inquiring.

I suggest you look to whom I responded to, it was not you.

As for ignoring your comment, it is clear we both have a different perspective so nothing to respond to.

[W_J_T]

pziecina  wrote

I suggest you look to whom I responded to, it was not you.

You mentioned professional and I just assumed, my bad. I thought you took the tractor down to the pub and was using the wifi.

pziecina  wrote

As for ignoring your comment, it is clear we both have a different perspective so nothing to respond to.

Well cheers to you in hopes you may gain some empathy towards others plight, none the less.

[pziecina]

W_J_T  wrote

Well cheers to you in hopes you may gain some empathy towards others plight, none the less.

The Muse user who has created a site for personal use only, has lost nothing, as they must only save the site as html and upload to another server.

The Muse user who has created sites for profit, probably did so bidding against someone who wanted to create the site using code. Many even created sites that run into 100's of pages, and charge for updating, even those Muse users probably bid on a cost bases. Did they feel any sympathy for the coder that lost out to the drag and drop site creator. Unlikely.

As I said in my post, I do feel sympathy for the person who created sites using BC, as they have no alternative but to do a complete re-code.