Subscription Costs

[Orchids-World]

When I subscribed Dreamweaver a year ago, the subscription was around $22.00, it increased to around $26.00 and now gain it is going to increase to over $28.00. For me, with exchange rates added, it will cost over $30.00 every month.

That sounds good if you use Dreamweaver every day, but I only use the application for about 20 minutes a month. Taking into account that I am just a pensioner with no regular income other then my pension and my website "Orchids-World.com" is Non Profit Site, I believe it is a bit too much.

I could use another similar program; however, I am using Dreamweaver for over 15 years and I am used to it. Maybe I maintain bad habits of yesteryear, but I think Adobe could easily effort to maintain a reasonable price for aged people like myself. It is sad to think, that due to lack of options, I have no choice but to look for alternatives.

It is sad.

George

[WolfShade]

Your "proof" that no serious professional developer uses DW is your observation of several (not all) youtube developer channels with only one mentioning DW?????????????  That's your "proof"????

You have just lost any credibility with me.

[osgood_]

WolfShade  wrote

Your "proof" that no serious professional developer uses DW is your observation of several (not all) youtube developer channels with only one mentioning DW?????????????  That's your "proof"????

You have just lost any credibility with me.

Law of averages don't you think, explain why I have NOT encountered more using DW, if you can.  Anyone using CF loses any credibilty with me, if they had any in the first place

[pziecina]

I know I'm not posting anymore, but can we have some consensus on this please?

I have been watching this discussion over the last few days, and as I have to create a few examples of using css I would like to know what is the ONE coding environment everyone thinks is the best?

The subject has been discussed numerous times, and no one has ever agreed.

Note - must have auto-prefixer, and I want to move away from VS Pro.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

I would like to know what is the ONE coding environment everyone thinks is the best?

By environment do you mean code-editor or coding language? I'm assuming language because asking what is the best editor in a DW forum......

In terms of environment I like working from the back-seat of my 1970 Ford Capri on my laptop

[pziecina]

It's code editor, but mainly for creating css. I'm not even worried if someone suggests a visual css editor, providing it supports everything modern, even font hinting should be supported if possible.

html, javascript, etc are purerly secondary.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

It's code editor, but mainly for creating css.

I'd have to say Php Storm.....I'll give that a shout- out!

Its a big beast of an editor so I only use it when I'm doing something project based. It has great css highlighting if something is wrong and code hint completion, which I don't use that regularly. You can check the file using 'code inspection' which will flag up any errors in a dedicated pop up panel but if you have errors and warnings turn on as default it will do that as you type in the css file itself.

Its draw back and its a BIG one it has no simple means of pre-fixing, thats a big fail as you have to use either a 3rd party app like Prepros or Codekit and of course a stupid scss file just for fixing....yuck. Failing that you havet o install something like Grunt of Gulp to watch the file and trigger autoprefixer, that's a bummer unless you want a dozen or so extra files clogging up your project folder.

Hope that may be of help.........only serious players need apply for this one

If I'm just messing around I'll use anything from Coda to VC Code and beyond, as I dont make many mistakes

[pziecina]

Without a good but simple auto-prefixer, it's a no go.

So php storm is off the list.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

Without a good but simple auto-prefixer, it's a no go.

So php storm is off the list.

lol yeah its crap! I don't know of any with a good simple auto-prefixer or I can't remember - oh yes of course Brackets does have a plugin and I think on save it puts in the pre-fixing but for some reason I went off Brackets. I thought it wasnt really moving on much and the UI is somewhat awful but I do quite like the coding environment, poor support for snippets really and no file managment, stuffs some proprietary rubbish in its live view etc........3 strikes and you're out. As I keep saying I'm waiting, although I think I'll be incapable by the time any editor is released which is a perfect fit.

[pziecina]

Brackets is also a no go, as it is too 'clunky', and even the latest version gets the css order incorrect for a lot of properties.

I have tried latest versions of -

sublime

vs code

brackets

Dw, (obviously)

coda

and all the top free code editors, (cannot recommend any for css). Have not tried any of the more obscure paid for css, (or code editor) tools.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

Brackets is also a no go, as it is too 'clunky', and even the latest version gets the css order incorrect for a lot of properties.

I have tried latest versions of -

sublime

vs code

brackets

Dw, (obviously)

coda

and all the top free code editors, (cannot recommend any for css). Have not tried any of the more obscure paid for css, (or code editor) tools.

I know, quite frankly I'm left speechless.

What I would like is an option AFTER one has finalised the css file to then add the pre-fixes, that would be an optimum workflow. I think adding the pre-fixes on save is acceptable but as someone else said in another thread it tends to make the css file bigger than it needs to be at the time of working in it. I can live with that if nothing else is on offer but as I said some options would be nice! 3rd party solutons or helpers are not an option for me personally.

[pziecina]

VS Pro with the required extensions, comes close to what I require, but lets be honest it is a beast. It is expensive, difficult to learn and not for simple sites or the production of examples. So its use would be like using a sledge hammer to crack a soft-boiled egg, (for dipping my soldiers in , wonder if that is an english term?).

I know you have been looking for a while for a good editor that supports simple auto-prefixing, but having watched this thread over the last few days, no matter what anyone says when it comes to css apparently nothing exists that comes close to going beyond basic requirerments, (though Ben lives in another time zone, so he may yet reply).

[rayek.elfin]

pziecina  wrote

It's code editor, but mainly for creating css. I'm not even worried if someone suggests a visual css editor, providing it supports everything modern, even font hinting should be supported if possible.

html, javascript, etc are purerly secondary.

I'd say NetBeans. Have you tried that one yet?

It loads a 12000 line css file within half a second and ready for editing. It lints CSS code while you type, and comes with everything you'd expect: code hinting, css reference is displayed alongside the code hinting (if needed), and warnings/errors are quickly found with the mini-map (code outline) plugin. Code beautifier is included, and Emmet is also available as a plugin.

SASS/LESS support is built-in, and Netbeans is fully CSS preprocessor aware. With the Chrome NetBeans Connector your changes are updated live in Chrome, and elements can be picked in Chrome, which are then highlighted in NetBeans html view - a CSS style panel in NetBeans displays the CSS properties and the location of said CSS rule definitions are also listed and quickly found with one click.

Aside from showing a selection's CSS rules, NetBeans also provides a handy CSS rules outline for a document. Refactoring class names is easy too, and fast. As always, sometimes a code editor will lint your code and warn you about things it shouldn't - simply filter out those instances.

Other than that, NetBeans is a great IDE in general. I particularly love how it automatically keeps track of all changes over time in its own history/built-in versioning - so nothing is lost when you made a mistake and want to retrieve that older snippet of code. Of course, Git, SVN, and Mercurial are supported as well.

Auto-prefixing is NOT built in, btw. But it is simple to include a NPM script which calls the autoprefixer by right-mouse clicking a CSS file. Just include that NPM script in your project, and have NetBeans automatically set things up for you.

NetBeans is my IDE/editor of choice. Sometimes I will use Atom (but that one is quite slow to work with) or Notepad++ for quick edits.

[rayek.elfin]

Btw, I do use Pinegrow to complement the CSS coding in a visual way. Sometimes a visual editor is just quicker than trying various values and having to recheck the browser again, and again, and again...

Great combination, in my opinion.

[pziecina]

Thanks for suggesting NetBeans, but I have tried it and it is also a no-go.

Like most editors i have tried, its css support is not up-to the standard required as it suffers from the same problems as most code editors now when it comes to css, in that it has not kept up with the possibilities available, even if the css property is only supported by 1 browser, I am looking for support.

I did mention font hinting in my original question, and I do not really expect support for anything so new, but if a css property has been available for a year or more, then yes, support should be available.

What i am doing at the moment, is helping to create explanations and examples of using css for web developers.

[rayek.elfin]

What about Atom? It wasn't in your list. Works wonderfully well together with Pinegrow for CSS editing. Plugin for autoprefixing is available. But I am unsure if its autocompletion supports ALL existing CSS properties. I wonder if anything does.

You probably already tried Atom, I am guessing.

[pziecina]

There was a new version of Atom released a couple of days ago, which I still have to test.

The old version was ok, but it did not work any better than vs code. The problem with most, (if not all) free editors, is that they are not aimed specifically at the web developer, which for a reason i cannot work out makes them all feel as though they have added things like css as an afterthought, (maybe the have ).

[W_J_T]

I agree concerning Atom. Or Pinegrow + Atom as rayek.elfin​ mentioned.

I find Atom pretty comprehensive and adequate when coupled along with many various packages. I have packages installed that cover much that is discussed, and also never really encounter speed issues. As far as finding the bleeding edge of CSS specifications supported, that may be harder to come by if thats what you meant. In regards to missing support, what CSS properties do you find missing commonly?

[pziecina]

I'll give the new Atom a trial run this weekend.

The properties missing in most editors are the vendor specific ones that were never part of the w3c specs, and will probably never be submitted as even an editors draft, (but are important for mobile devices), plus a lot of the newer ones introduced in w3c specs over the last 2-3 years, but only implemented in 1-2 browsers.

I thought about what would be helpful in a code editor for css, (and possibly other languages) especially with the properties that are very new, (css font hinting is an example) whilst drinking my glass of wine, and that would be some kind of feature that worked similar to adding words to the dictionary in a word processor. That way the editor would 'learn' new properties, and suggest them in a code hinting type of way, allowing one to use them before they became included in an editors update.

[osgood_]

Net Beans 7.2 doesn't know what 'justify-content' is.

I actually think I quite like Netbeans really, it's similar to php storm in many ways.

I havent used it much but its one I might go back and investigate just for a change.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

Net Beans 7.2 doesn't know what 'justify-content' is.

That's what I mean, and justify-content is now 10 years old.

[rayek.elfin]

? in my NetBeans v8.2 justify-content comes up in the autocompletion, with reference and possible values.

[osgood_]

rayek.elfin  wrote

? in my NetBeans v8.2 justify-content comes up in the autocompletion, with reference and possible values.

Yeah, I cant use 8.2 without updating some java file which I haven't a clue about, so I'm stuck with v7.2 until I update my OS which presumably will have this updated java file installed by default.

I suppose 7.2 IS 5 years old (I thought it was more recent) so that's probably why it's missing some css properties. 5 years to update to v8 from 7.2.....is that normal or is that slow?

Probably wont be revisting Netbeans any time soon, although I do quite like it,  as I cant be using 5 year old bits of software when I have php storm, which is current.

Having looked at Netbeans 7.2 again this morning I do like the freaking code snippets panel, that's how all editors should be not like you get in Sublime, VC Code, Atom, Brackets etc................ DW and Coda do a decent job at making code snippets easy to make.

[rayek.elfin]

osgood_  wrote

rayek.elfin   wrote

? in my NetBeans v8.2 justify-content comes up in the autocompletion, with reference and possible values.

Yeah, I cant use 8.2 without updating some java file which I haven't a clue about, so I'm stuck with v7.2 until I update my OS which presumably will have this updated java file installed by default.

I suppose 7.2 IS 5 years old (I thought it was more recent) so that's probably why it's missing some css properties. 5 years to update to v8 from 7.2.....is that normal or is that slow?

Probably wont be revisting Netbeans any time soon, although I do quite like it,  as I cant be using 5 year old bits of software when I have php storm, which is current.

Having looked at Netbeans 7.2 again this morning I do like the freaking code snippets panel, that's how all editors should be not like you get in Sublime, VC Code, Atom, Brackets etc................ DW and Coda do a decent job at making code snippets easy to make.

Be really careful with older Java versions: those can be quite insecure to have installed on your system. NetBeans v.8 requires the latest version. Download it here: Download Free Java Software​

I believe it will automatically sense an older version, and remove it.

And you know what? I never realized NetBeans includes a code snippet palette! The terminology is quite different, so I never found it, or bothered to look for it under a different guise.

It's actually rather good, isn't it? It's easy drag-and-drop, and icons can even be assigned. Easy to organize, and a bunch of handy ones are already present - including a nice table maker. Not bad at all.

Thanks! Stupid me had been on the look-out for a code snippet plugin for NetBeans for several years, and now I finally discover it is built-in. Duh! Why on earth had they had to call it "Palette"?!

[osgood_]

rayek.elfin  wrote

Be really careful with older Java versions: those can be quite insecure to have installed on your system. NetBeans v.8 requires the latest version. Download it here: Download Free Java Software

I believe it will automatically sense an older version, and remove it.

Right ok, I know nothing about computer so Im always really rather dubious about updating anything because it might casue isssues somewher else. I should be getting a ne w mac sometime this year so I'll wait a bit and continue to explore Netbeans a bit more as I do like it. Doesnt seem to have an option to get rid of the smart-indents in the code which I find annoying as I don't like indented code much.

rayek.elfin  wrote

And you know what? I never realized NetBeans includes a code snippet palette! The terminology is quite different, so I never found it, or bothered to look for it under a different guise.

It's actually rather good, isn't it? It's easy drag-and-drop, and icons can even be assigned. Easy to organize, and a bunch of handy ones are already present - including a nice table maker. Not bad at all.

Thanks! Stupid me had been on the look-out for a code snippet plugin for NetBeans for several years, and now I finally discover it is built-in. Duh! Why on earth had they had to call it "Palette"?!

I fumbled around a bit until I found it, was about to give up because I found something else where you can insert code snippets and use abbreviations/tabs under preferences but once I worked out how the code snippet pallete worked, loved the way you can organise them into folders and as you say drag and drop the snippet on the pallete. I mixed up code templates and code snippets initially. You can organise snippets in DW this way of course which is one of its good features.

Netbeans feels more professional to me. I like the UI, its Mac friendly and 7.2 is reminiscent of the older editors UI/coding environment which I prefer. I suspect v8 has introduce options for Dark UIs, which although I've tried I can never seem to get along with and always switch back to the lighter UIs and editor environment.

[rayek.elfin]

Now that I know what to look for, I tested the Palette manager a bit in NetBeans. It doesn't support CSS snippets out of the box (weird), but there's an easy fix: a plugin that adds CSS snippet support for the Palette.

Releases · junichi11/netbeans-css-palette · GitHub

Download the NBM file, and install via Tools-->Plugins-->Downloaded, and navigate to the NBM file. Not sure if this will work on 7.2.

That developer (Junichi) has a number of other interesting plugins as well.

As for the Java update: you are using a Mac, I forget. I believe some old software requires an older version - I recall reading somewhere Fireworks will not run properly without an older version. But if you are running up-to-date software, it shouldn't be a problem (insert disclaimer here ). As a matter of fact, older versions of Java are quite notorious in regards to security issues on the Mac. Most applications do NOT have any Java dependencies at all.

NetBeans updates occur mostly in VX.X release cycles. There have been 8 updates since v7.2. You might want to update to V7.4 (unless you update your Java:

https://netbeans.org/downloads/7.4/index.html