Subscription Costs

[Orchids-World]

When I subscribed Dreamweaver a year ago, the subscription was around $22.00, it increased to around $26.00 and now gain it is going to increase to over $28.00. For me, with exchange rates added, it will cost over $30.00 every month.

That sounds good if you use Dreamweaver every day, but I only use the application for about 20 minutes a month. Taking into account that I am just a pensioner with no regular income other then my pension and my website "Orchids-World.com" is Non Profit Site, I believe it is a bit too much.

I could use another similar program; however, I am using Dreamweaver for over 15 years and I am used to it. Maybe I maintain bad habits of yesteryear, but I think Adobe could easily effort to maintain a reasonable price for aged people like myself. It is sad to think, that due to lack of options, I have no choice but to look for alternatives.

It is sad.

George

[B i r n o u]

"What i am doing at the moment, is helping to create explanations and examples of using css for web developers."

that's a really great idea, I never saw what was your work, and I don't know what are your design abilities...

so for what I think, doing such a training, there are two huge aspects to be taken into account...

first one is to go under the cover and demonstrate how the CSS is made of and what are the solutions that exist out there to apply them an get the aim results... I know that you're more than enought (arf arf) on that point...

but there is a second point to be taken into account... it is the design aspect of the rendrering... most of training or tutorials out there just shows basic layouts, kind of never used ...

please, take not only code into account but also the look and feel of real life design advanced web sites

[pziecina]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

please, take not only code into account but also the look and feel of real life design advanced web sites

A lot of css that can easily be used to change the look and feel of a web site, are missing good explanations and examples and does not cover the possibilities of using beyond the basics.

I have done some work over the last 3 months updating a couple of the current explanations since being asked to join the project, but it is a well known site for learning web development, and one must take care not to go too far beyond the sites intentions.

For me it was a way to help people learn front-end development, and I did suggest the creation of a user created tutorial section in the Dw forum a few months ago, in which I hoped it would be possible to include layout examples, (not just by me, by everyone) that went beyond the current stagnated layouts. That way I could have combined my free time work in both the theory, (the dev site) and practice, (the Dw forum).

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

In terms of environment I like working from the back-seat of my 1970 Ford Capri on my laptop

Great classic car, hope it's a ghia?

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

osgood_   wrote

In terms of environment I like working from the back-seat of my 1970 Ford Capri on my laptop

Great classic car, hope it's a ghia?

It actually is or was.........I dont have it any longer.........just dreaming - back in the days when I was younger and less grumpy!!! Loved the thing.

[B i r n o u]

arf arf... I understand why you're so fussy about what's new....

[osgood_]

Sure am......don't build them like they used too

[B i r n o u]

I miss my classic mustang 68 convertible

[B i r n o u]

is it an automatic process, or do we have to ask for it ?

[rayek.elfin]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

i_hate_subscriptions   wrote

other software companies often provide free updates to customers within a certain time-frame after purchase. Adobe does not.

Untrue.  Adobe gives Creative Cloud members FREE updates & upgrades for as long as we remain members.  And we have access to older product versions if we need them for legacy projects.  IMO, the subscription model is far superior, more affordable and covers a much wider range of products than the old perpetual licensing system did.   YMMV.

Small correction: Adobe gives CC members PAID FOR updates & upgrades for as long as members remain paying the rent.

When we pay rent, it cannot be maintained that updates are free - obviously we pay for those upgrades on a monthly basis.

Not saying this is "good" or "evil" - it is merely a business model which Adobe now runs.

Adobe's rental model no longer allows users to skip a (paid) upgrade either. In the past many hobbyists and smaller businesses decided to keep using an older version for a longer time until they could no longer hold out due to hardware/OS requirements. That really ate into Adobe's profits, and obviously the rental model solved this quite spectacularly - at the expense of people like @I_hate_subscriptions.

The other side of the coin for hobbyists  and small users is that they can no longer pay once and keep using the same version for as long as they want. Nor can anyone edit their native source files without paying the rent any longer - effectively locking in users (up to a certain extent).

Before the CC rent it was much easier to pick À la carte: individual applications could be paid for, and the user could decide which app to purchase and/or update when they wanted or needed it. At the time Adobe recognized the inherent issues with this for their business, and the rental-only model restricts picking separate applications by making this quite unattractive to users (excepting the photographer's PS offer, which made sense to cater for the large photographers' market).

All in all, in the end the side benefiting the most from the CC rent-only business model is Adobe. Certainly, a side effect of the success is that more perks have become available to their tenants, although the fact remains that the inherent relative FREEDOM users had when perpetual licenses were still available no longer exists.

Pay the rent, and you get to use the software. Don't pay the rent, and you can't work on your source files any longer. Simple as that. Adobe as a company exists to appease its shareholders first, and its users second (perhaps a close second, but still).

Other software publishers seem to do very well using very different business models. For example, users of Zbrush NEVER EVER had to pay for an upgrade so far in the past 15 years, and still become the industry standard. Buy once, get TRULY FREE updates. No strings attached. Or a business such as the one behind Gravit Designer: the software is free, and the company earns its money by providing the tech to other developers (I believe). Or open source business models, of course.

Luckily for small users and businesses the alternatives are getting better and better all the time. So many good and better alternatives are now available.

Again, I am not defending or attacking Adobe here - it is what it is. From a business point of view their switch to rental only software made complete sense. Their profits were dwindling and their business management had become too complicated, and by adopting a rental model, and limiting the freedom of their users, they were able to turn this around.

[B i r n o u]

I can't and I won't answer for I_Hate_Subscriptions, but what I undesrtood in his comment that when buying a software, some companies offer free update after the purchase... so if you don't renew any license... you will have the last build remaining to be use... (how many people on this forum are still using old installed software).... compare to when one have a subscription... either if your subscription have stay up for three years... when you stop paying, you wont have any old version under hand, nor any update...

[I_Hate_Subscriptions]

I used Dreamweaver several years ago while building sites for myself and a few local organizations (mostly charitable). However, a growing family and a decent job caught up with me, so I abandoned the sites (still live, but are now managed by others). I haven't been serious with web building for about the last five years. I have, however, used Adobe RoboHelp (which includes a one-time purchase option) for the last few years for creating HTML documents.

The kids are growing up and going to college, so I'm ready to go again, but I'm shopping for a decent web/HTML editor that provides the WYSIWYG option along with regular coding. The world has changed with mobile devices, so I also worry about responsive HTML.

For a startup, Dreamweaver is not going to work. If I'm going to gamble, I will make a one-time purchase (not subscription). I wanted to consider Dreamweaver as an option (that's why I'm here), but it appears there are alternative options that will meet my needs.

[Teodor K]

Yes, it is you I am quoting. I already explained that you won't have to purchase separate extensions as it is now in DW. And you saying that we are going to sell separate extensions for Wappler is the fake info I am referring to. The article explains that the functions, integrated in DW as extensions will be integrated in Wappler and depending on the needs you will have several options for purchase (not separate extensions!).

As for Ben - he is one of the hundreds users invited in our pre-release forum.

You will learn more about the pricing model and options when this is officially announced.

I won't be posting anything else about it at this moment.

[W_J_T]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Teodor+K  wrote

• Yes, it is you I am quoting
• You won't have to purchase separate extensions as it is now in DW
• You saying that we are going to sell separate extensions for Wappler is the fake info
• The article explains that the functions, integrated in DW as extensions will be integrated in Wappler and depending on the needs you will have several options for purchase (not separate extensions!).
• As for Ben - he is one of the hundreds users invited in our pre-release forum.

Thanks for directly clarifying that Ben started the fake info, when he stated (as seen above) "can be purchased in a similar manner to Dreamweaver extensions". So your own "invited users" have conflicting views and are releasing and reporting conflicting information verse what you are now stating here. Don't blame that on me, the confusion surrounding your product is not my fault when your own invited users are confused.

[osgood_]

W_J_T  wrote

Thanks for directly clarifying that Ben started the fake info, when he stated (as seen above) "can be purchased in a similar manner to Dreamweaver extensions". So your own "invited users" have conflicting views and are releasing and reporting conflicting information verse what you are now stating here. Don't blame that on me, the confusion surrounding your product is not my fault when your own invited users are confused.

Sounded exactly like that to me as well, not that I care much, its just a basic good web-editor I'm looking for not one which comes with optional  paid for extensions, although that's going to be useful for some people - so I don't see how I can be of any possible financial value to DMXZone if its freely available, assuming its capable of writing code, with out buying into extra plugins. I 'd much rather just pay for the editor and supoort its development but if others want to do that for me well what can I say.

[BenPleysier]

W_J_T  wrote

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Teodor+K   wrote

• Yes, it is you I am quoting
• You won't have to purchase separate extensions as it is now in DW
• You saying that we are going to sell separate extensions for Wappler is the fake info
• The article explains that the functions, integrated in DW as extensions will be integrated in Wappler and depending on the needs you will have several options for purchase (not separate extensions!).
• As for Ben - he is one of the hundreds users invited in our pre-release forum.

Thanks for directly clarifying that Ben started the fake info, when he stated (as seen above) "can be purchased in a similar manner to Dreamweaver extensions". So your own "invited users" have conflicting views and are releasing and reporting conflicting information verse what you are now stating here. Don't blame that on me, the confusion surrounding your product is not my fault when your own invited users are confused.

I think you are the one that is spreading fake info. As rayek.elfin​, who translated the articles states:

If you wish to add more [functionality] you have the option to purchase additional building blocks through a subscription.

This is exactly how DMXZone market their extensions for Dreamweaver. I never said that extensions are part of Wappler nor is there any conflicting information between what Teodor and I have said.

In future, please read what it says and do not make baseless assumptions especially while spreading your false information.

[osgood_]

I suppose it comes down to what features are included by default and what you need to additionally purchase for it to be really useful if you cant code it yourself.

I think some are still reeling from the server behaviours not being replaced in DW which set it apart from any other application on the market. It remsins to be seen if any database connectivity and querying is  included as default, l would be surprised.

If its a good editor l get to use if free of charge according to the press release if its compatible with my OS because there aint no way in the world l would be using 3rd party paid for add ons to solve coding issues, that seems like a negative business model to me financially as ld rather pay and support a good editor.

[BenPleysier]

What I have seen of Wappler, it promises to become a heavy weight in web and app development.

First off, I shall clarify my position just incase someone misreads what I am about to write. I am testing Wappler although I cannot yet use it for production purposes. Any problems or suggestions, I pass on to the development team. For the rest, I am kept in the dark regarding pricing models and features. I can only guess what the finished product will look like using DMXZone Dreamweaver extensions as a guide.

For Dreamweaver there two major components, App Connect and Server Connect, for front-end and back-end respectively. Both of these extensions are supplied free of charge Both of these extensions can be further extended with extensions such as with Database Updater to insert, delete and update records. These extra extensions are marketed in the usual DMXZone fashion.

In my view and going by the Dreamweaver extensions, Wappler will be a lean and fast loading development tool that can be used by designers/developers with little coding experience right through to hard-and-fast coders. To this end, there is a Design and a Code view.

[W_J_T]

BenPleysier  wrote

• I think you are the one that is spreading fake info. As rayek.elfin, who translated the articles states:
• In future, please read what it says and do not make baseless assumptions especially while spreading your false information.

You're honestly not this ignorant are you? So you forgot your own stated words which preceded Teodor's comments and the translation, now you wish to blame me for any misinterpretations? That's truly hilarious, also is the sensationalization of the term "fake info". Seems like all those associated with Wappler, developers and invited users alike need too learn to release clear information before you accuse others of misinterpretation of the info you release.

Kind of like this statement that they have since silently corrected.

No one can deny that as being 100% fake or false, as it clearly was. That was released directly by the Wappler team.

So far the team at Wappler is doing a good job of making things as clear as mud publicly. Which is a really interesting marketing choice to forerun their upcoming product release. Between the secrecy and confusion, I would say the handling concerning the release of information, could certainly be handled much better. That doesn't mean when launched it won't all get ironed out, but we'll see.

[BenPleysier]

Out of courtesy I will reply only to say have a prosperous New Year.

[W_J_T]

BenPleysier  wrote

Out of courtesy I will reply only to say have a prosperous New Year.

I am open to any reply you might have. But, likewise all the best to you as well Ben concerning all things.