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turner111
Inspiring
January 14, 2022
Question

A few questions from an intersted non-user :)

  • January 14, 2022
  • 5 replies
  • 523 views

Hi everyone,

I've recently completed a ~400pp book in InDesign; it had lots of varying content and I ran into some issues that (once again) caused some angst with design and development.

 

I've tried searching around but haven't found the answers here (and the Framemaker online help brings up WAY too many answers...)

So, here are a few things I'm hoping to find out about Framemaker:

 

1) How does it handle Styles in Book documents? ID only gives the option to synchronize to a single document, or import from an external document, but it must be done manually, and it's a one-way street. Ideally, there would be the equivalent of an external global CSS style sheet that a) allowed the user to modify it from within any document, and b) allowed the option to synchronize automatically, so changes in one Book file would immediately be applied to all files int the same Book document. Anything like global style sheet functionality in FM? How do you handle this?

 

This was really one of my main things because I didn't receive all the content at the same time, and some things I received later, believe it or not, required new/modified styles. 😉

 

2) If it allows programmatic re-ordering of Table of Contents items, so that they can be arranged by the user rather than by the order in which things appear on a page. (Same for Index, I guess!)

 

3) If there is more control over Endnotes than in ID, both in terms of where they appear (I'd prefer them to put them inline, for example) as well as conversion to standard content, if needed.

 

4) What makes it "Market-leading software for authoring and publishing technical content." ? I'm truly curious here as a lot of work I do (both design and content-wise) is technical documentation, but it's typically short-form, such as product specifications and installation instructions.

 

5) If you use both, what are your thoughts about the differences between the two? Are they ever used in the same project?

 

thank you!

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    5 replies

    Dave Creamer of IDEAS
    Dave Creamer of IDEAS
    Community Expert
    January 14, 2022

    @frameexpert is correct (as one would expect!)

    From the InDesign viewpoint:

    >>1) How does it handle Styles in Book documents? ID only gives the option to synchronize to a single document, ...

    This is not accurate unless I'm misunderstanding your "single document" term. You can sync various settings to the entire book or just parts of the book at once. In general terms, this feature works similar to Frame.

     

    >>2) If it allows programmatic re-ordering of Table of Contents items, so that they can be arranged by the user rather than by the order in which things appear on a page. 

    This is not what I would call a TOC, but it's possible to use a few tricks to change the order. A little easier in ID than Frame, but both can do it. 

     

    >>3) If there is more control over Endnotes than in ID, both in terms of where they appear (I'd prefer them to put them inline, for example) as well as conversion to standard content, if needed.

    Not sure what you mean "inline". As FrameExpert noted, both support footnotes; InDesign supports endnotes at end of each chapter--not the book. 

     

    >>4) What makes it "Market-leading software for authoring and publishing technical content." ? 

    There are lots of differences, but

    • Frame's book file features are much better than ID's basic features.
    • Graphically and typographicly, ID's features are much better and much more powerful. 
    • Tables are more powerful in ID than Frame, and can link to Excel files. 
    • Both have variables and conditional text, but they are more powerful in Frame.
    • Both support XML, but Frame's handling is much, much greater. 

    This is not an exhaustive list by any means. 

     

    >>5) If you use both, what are your thoughts about the differences between the two? Are they ever used in the same project?

    It wouldn't make sense to use both for the same project, but I have used them in the same company for different departments. I've done 1000-page books with each program. Just depends on what you want to do.

    When using ID, I mutter to myself about how easy something would be in Frame; when using Frame, I mutter to myself about how easy it would be in InDesign. 

     

    David Creamer: Community Expert (ACI and ACE 1995-2023)
      T
      turner111Author
      Inspiring
      January 14, 2022

      Hi David - fancy seeing you here!

       

      >>1) How does it handle Styles in Book documents? ID only gives the option to synchronize to a single document, ...

      This is not accurate unless I'm missunderstanding your "single document" term. You can sync various settings to the entire book or just parts of the book at once. In general terms, this feature works similar to Frame.

       

      I mean the Style Source document within a book.

      Within a book file, there is obviously a document that's selected as the Style Source. This is the only document to which all others will sync, but only when instructed by the user to do so. So, theoretically, we could have a book with five chapters, the last four of which have never been synced, and have modified styles that don't match the ones in the style source.

       

      Worse, if we add styles to any other document in the book, they must then be manually imported to the style source, then all chapters must be re-synchronized. This is, in my case, extraordinarily cumbersome and could be addressed by keeping a single, live style source referenced by all chapters in a book.

       

      From a design standpoint, it would be a huge benefit to be able to keep multiple documents open to instananeously see how style changes in one appear in the others. I know that can be done manually, but with, say, 40 styles, all the manual back-and-forth is not only time consuming but also prone to user error. (Me.)

      T
      turner111Author
      Inspiring
      January 14, 2022

      Thanks @frameexpert  - looks like FM is a non-starter for me, then.

      Hopefully these functions will be incorporated one day.

      frameexpert
      frameexpert
      Community Expert
      January 14, 2022

      3) FrameMaker has footnotes, but not endnotes.

        Bob_Niland
        Bob_Niland
        Community Expert
        January 16, 2022

        Rick: 3) FrameMaker has footnotes, but not endnotes.

        It's worth pointing out that FM claims to have ENs. The topic has been in the Help pages for several releases now.

        But, it's just an elementary version of the same Xref hacks that framers have been using since the Corfield era. It's way far from automatic, but is wide open to custom implementations (per-chapter, all notes in own file, autonumber options, etc.)

        frameexpert
        frameexpert
        Community Expert
        January 14, 2022

        2) Tables of Contents and other types of "Generated Lists" (Lists of Figures, Tables, Paragraphs, etc.) always get their content in book/document order. Any reordering would have to be a post-processing step (perhaps with a script).

          frameexpert
          frameexpert
          Community Expert
          January 14, 2022

          1) There is no automatic synchonization of styles (FrameMaker calls them formats) in a book. Any FrameMaker document can be used as a source for formats and formats can be selectively imported into any of the documents in the book.

           

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