Best vector format for logos

[markeeeee]

I have to create logos and icons for clients. Traditionally I would supply both vector EPS files and bitmap PNG and JPEG files. However, recently clients have been expecting vector format logos, rather than bitmap. And in a format that they can use in:

Adobe CC

Affinity software

Canva

Word and Powerpoint

EPS

Files can't be used in Canva or Microsoft apps

SVG

Doesn't support CMYK and have other issues https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/placed-svg-files-do-not-fill-frame/m-p/14437985#...

AI

Isn't supported outside of Adobe

PDF

I've never thought of saving logos and brand assets as PDFs, but I assume all the apps above can open a PDF file. PDF supports CMYK and RGB. And this could be the way  to go?

Any recommendations welcomed!

[Monika Gause]

You have to usually supply all of them.

So people can choose whatever is appropriate for the task.

[markeeeee]

Wouldn't that quickly become a LOT of logo versions, so many it would be overwheleming?

logo-cmyk EPS

logo-cmyk AI

logo-cmyk PDF

logo-rgb EPS

logo-rgb SVG

logo-rgb AI

logo-rgb PDF

logo-black EPS

logo-black SVG

logo-black AI

logo-black PDF

logo-white EPS

logo-white SVG

logo-white AI

logo-white PDF

+

Bitmap versions

+

Different versions of the logo

I'm wondering if PDF could do the job of all the other vector formats?

[Monika Gause]

If people can't handle that, offer them handling their production needs as a service.

[markeeeee]

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. I'm sure PDF will cover everything but edge cases – and if there is an edge case the client can always convert the PDF to EPS or ask me to do it.

[Scott Falkner]

Oh you have no idea, child. I had a project for a university creating and curating logo files for multiple departments, colleges, and schools. Each iteration had four layouts. Each of those had five colour versions: black, white, CYMY, RGB, and Pantone. Each of these had to be saved as PDF, EPS, JPG low res, JPG hi res, PNG lo res, and PNG hi res. Each file had to be named a specific way and the entire batch of images had to be stored in a specific heirarchy of folders. There were about 300 different iterations and I was responsible for about half of them.

Just one department logo required 84 separate files, each precisely named, each stored in a compicated heirarchy of folders. Care to guess how long it took me to save out all the files for a logo once it was approved?

[markeeeee]

Do tell!

[Jacob Bugge]

markeeeee,

I am believe Scott quite reasonably may like to see a guess from you, and maybe others, before revealing it, guessing made with the knowledge that it happened more than a few days ago, before any cheating with new automation features.

[markeeeee]

Okay, drum roll. One logo = 84 separate files all named precisely and put into precise folders = 1/2 days work? This allows some time for making mistakes with the naming etc and having to redo files. It's easy to put files in the wrong folder, or name them wrongly etc.

[Monika Gause]

You might want to take a look at this: https://www.logopackage.com 

[markeeeee]

Wow, looks interesting. I'd need to do some research into it...

• Does it convert CMYK to RGB and visa versa, or can I control the CMYK and RGB values?

• What size and resolution does it spit out the 'web' files? I like to create high res bitmap files so that they can be used in Word etc, not just on websites.

• On one colour logo versions white and black, does it decide what is white and what is black, or can I control that?

My initial concern is that by automating the process I have much less control?

[Jacob Bugge]

markeeeee,

Did you look into the native cheating I mentioned under Export artwork, Collect assets and export in batches, andPackage files, described in the User guide?

https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/user-guide.html

[markeeeee]

Hi, I've had a quick look.

I'm very familiar with exporting artwork.

The 'Collect assets and export in batches' is focussed on exporting for screens (i.e. web design), rather than logo and brand assets. Or have I misread this?

Package file isn't going to help automate the creation of a logo into many different formats / files.

[Doug A Roberts]

You can export PDFs using Export for Screens.

[markeeeee]

Yes, but it's 'exporting for screens', so presumably the PDF will be RGB and no way to get CMYK PDFs suitable for print

[Doug A Roberts]

No, you can use any PDF preset with it that you would normally export with. 'Export for Screens' is just a name.

[Monika Gause]

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markeeeee  schrieb:

Wow, looks interesting. I'd need to do some research into it...

• Does it convert CMYK to RGB and visa versa, or can I control the CMYK and RGB values?

---

There are videos about it. I would suggest you check it out if it suits your needs.

[markeeeee]

Thanks everyone. PDF seems to be the way to go, or something like Logo Package when supplying lots of files. Didn't know tools like that exist. Thanks again

[Scott Falkner]

Started at about four hours. I made an action to automate a little bit of the work and used Photoshop’s actions to generate the raster files (needed four actions). That got the time down to a bit over three hours, if I remember correctly. The longest part was making sure I moved the files into the proper folders then double checking.

This was abot seven years ago, when many features that could have added even more automation didn’t exist.

[Jacob Bugge]

markeeeee,

You can look under Export here,
https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/user-guide.html

and especially under Export artwork, Collect assets and export in batches, andPackage files, and about PDF (also under Save).

With all this you can create a bundle of all (un)thinkable formats to cover all uses.

EMF can be used by Windows applications for vector artwork (within limits), and there is also WebP as an alternative to SVG.

PDF must be considered a must for print.

When starting, in order to get the best possible consistency of colour throughout, you can create the artwork in the narrower CMYK gamut for normal print purposes and then a corresponding RGB version for web/screen uses.

If you wish to work beyond the CMYK gamut limits, you can have a look at extended/expanded colour gamut,
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=extended%2Fexpanded+gamut&atb=v320-1&ia=web

Edit: I had to leave for a while so there is a certain overlap with what Monika said.

[markeeeee]

Okay, from doing some research, including this (https://www.graphicdesignforum.com/t/eps-vs-pdf/7424) it seems that I probably need to ditch vector EPS format in favour of PDF format logos. And by providing PDFs I don't also need to provide AI, SVG or EPS formats.

[Monika Gause]

Give them all formats.

Yes, EPS is an outdated file format. But logos are used in  wide variety of ways. And sometimes EPS is the only thing that an engraving service can use in their ancient equipment. 

[Bobby Henderson]

Your clients need to tell you what creative applications they're using so you can tailor the art files to their work flow. That really should be established up front before any design work is done. The same goes for things like color modes.

The EPS format is outdated; one of the format's most serious limitations is no support for transparent fills.

The Adobe Illustrator AI format is supported by most rival vector graphics applications, but the level of support is very uneven. The AI files almost always must be saved down to an earlier "legacy" format, such as AI CS6. Current version Illustrator files will not open; or the rival graphics app will try to import PDF data, which can lead to unpredictable and wrong results. Newer Illustrator-based effects such as free-form gradient fills or gradients on line strokes won't be preserved when importing an AI file into Affinity Designer or CorelDRAW. Various "live" effects may not be preserved either. Graphics objects that don't have a bunch of live embellishments applied to them will import far more predictably into another target application. Generally speaking, logos and icons shouldn't have a bunch of live effects applied to them anyway.

SVG files are very hit and miss. If SVG files are coming from Canva they'll almost always stink. Downloading a "PDF for Print" file is the only thing I've seen that works at all from that web app.

PDF files can be very problematic. It all depends on what app is generating the PDF. Illustrator-generated PDFs (saved with Illustrator editing capability preserved) work very well. Just be sure to convert any live text objects to outlines so clients can avoid font substitution problems.

Other graphics applications that can save PDF files do not save PDF files that are edit-friendly. PDF files are not supposed to be edited. But plenty of us end up having to harvest graphics elements out of PDFs anyway due to inaction from clients. The Vector First Aid plugin can be an enormous time-saver when used to fix issues with artwork grabbed out of a PDF. Some problems may still remain though.

[Monika Gause]

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Bobby Henderson  schrieb:

The EPS format is outdated; one of the format's most serious limitations is no support for transparent fills.

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Transparent fills have no business in a logo anyway.

[Bobby Henderson]

I agree, a proper logo should not have any transparent fills. Really a true logo should be able to be reproduced in a single ink color and be simple enough that it can be legible at small point sizes or in the case of outdoor signs be legible at far viewing distances. So much compromise gets in the way of such goals. Considering how different segments of popular culture like reusing things from 20 or more years ago making them new again it wouldn't surprise me to see "Skeuomorphism" make some sort of comeback in graphic design.