Group without grouping!

[sPretzel]

Hi,

I have an object with items in multiple layers. For the sake of aligning it with other objects, I would need to group it or turn it into a symbol. However, both of these options move all items in the object into a single layer. Is there a simple way of having the object behave as a group (for the sake of aligning it) without grouping it? In other words, I would like to keep all the items in the layers where they are, but be able to align the object as a whole.

This is for CS4.

Thanks.

[Jacob Bugge]

s,

The solution is Save Selection in the Select dropdown:

1) Select all the objects across Layers;

2) In the Select dropdown click Save Selection and give it a name;

Whenever you need to select the Saved Selection, you can just:

3) Click the given name in the Select dropdown and enjoy.

It works in CS4.

[sPretzel]

Hi Jacob,

Thanks for your suggestion. I had not thought of it. I tried it but it merely saves the selection, as it says. Then I recall it and everything is selected just as I saved it. But if I align the selection to another object, then every item aligns individually to that object. So it doesn't turn the selection into a single unit. In that sense, Save Selection doesn't behave like Group.

[Jacob Bugge]

Sorry, s, I was too hasty, and overlooked the alignment bit.

Pondering.

[Jacob Bugge]

s,

The solution is still Save Selection in the Select dropdown:

Here is a slightly longer way A) if you just wish to centre align to the key object, and a much longer way B) if you wish to align to the key object in other ways.

In A) you can, with the centre Reference Point chosen in the Transform palette:

A1) Select all the objects across Layers;

A2) In the Select dropdown click Save Selection and give it a name;

A3) Select the key object and copy the X value, then Click the given name in the Select dropdown and paste the X value;

A4) Repeat A3) for the Y value.

The operations in A3) and A4) correpond to opening the Align palette and applying the horizontal and vertical centre alignment.

In B) you can, first with the centre Reference Point chosen in the Transform palette:

B1) Select all the objects across Layers;

B2) In the Select dropdown click Save Selection and give it a name;

B3) Ctrl/Cmd+C+F to copy the selection on top of itself in the topmost Layer, then Ctrl/Cmd+8 to turn the copy into a Compound Path;

This will give you a Compound Path with the same Bounding Box as the selection would have as a Group; you can keep this for repeated use.

B4) Choose the Reference Point in the Transform palette corresponding to the kind of alignment you wish to have, then align the Compound Path/rectangle with the key object, then switch the Reference Point in the Transform palette back to centre;

B5) Select the Compound Path and copy the X value, then Click the given name in the Select dropdown and paste the X value;

B6) Repeat B7) for the Y value.

The operations in B4 and B5) and B6) correpond to the operations in A3) and A4) and to opening the Align palette and applying the horizontal and vertical centre alignment.

[sPretzel]

Hello Everybody,

First of all, Jacob, I really appreciate the effort you put into coming up with a solution. I am starting to wonder if that is the work of a volunteer or an Adobe-funded employee or contractor !! 😉 Either way, thank you very much.

For now, I have resorted to converting my object to a symbol. It is not exactly how I want it but the original object is still there (with all its layers) and if I need to, I can replace the symbol with a new one.

Now looking at your solutions. One underlying goal in my original post, which I didn't make clear, was for the result to be a couple of clicks away when aligning, just like aligning with the Align panel. I find both solutions, in particular B, to be "click-intensive". But I have an issue with something else, and that also is in Bobby's solution. In my experience, copying the numerical values displayed in the Transform Panel can lose precision (copying only copies the value displayed). I see that when I change to a finer unit like point. It is a small issue but it's real. However, aligning using the Align panel keeps those values intact.

Kurt, thanks for the suggestion. I will take a look. I don't write scripts on a regular basis so it takes me some time to get back up to speed when I do. I don't intend to write one for this task as it is fairly small (though I have quite a few such objects to align).

Bobby. If I understood your solution correctly, it is fairly similar to solution A of Jacob. If I do a number of aligning and realigning, there will be too many steps. It also has the rounding issue for the coordinates.

Thanks all three of you for helping.

[Jacob Bugge]

For my part you are welcome, s, and thank you very much for your kind words.

You are right about the rounding, of course. This is one of the reasons I always let Illy do the calculations whenever possible and get the accurate numbers (within the inherent far finer roundings), or use aligning and snapping and other drawing solutions.

[sPretzel]

I don't know who selected Jacob's answer as the Correct Answer. I unselected it. While it does the job, it doesn't allow the use of the align command, which has other implications. That answer really is repositioning rather than aligning, which also makes it not quite simple (more steps than a click of a button).

In light of the discussion here, I guess the answer to the original question "Is there a simple way of having the object behave as a group (for the sake of aligning it) without grouping it?" is No. 

[Monika Gause]

You should have answered earlier. Your last answer (and Jacobs's response) probably gave staff the impression that the issue is solved for you. 

You might want to support this: https://illustrator.uservoice.com/forums/333657-illustrator-desktop-feature-requests/suggestions/309... 

[Jacob Bugge]

s,

I have no recollection of any Correct Answer marking, and I believe Monika is right about staff.

[sPretzel]

In this case, the discussion was more valuable than the answer and I had upvoted the replies that mattered to me. That's what led me to the conclusion that the answer is no (at least for now) and that I should proceed with one of the ways known to me today, which was the symbols route.

[sPretzel]

Another answer was selected as Correct (this time it was Monika's answer)! I did not select it. I am pretty sure that it was not selected by Jacob or Monika either. I unselected it.

To anyone who previously selected an answer as Correct or who intends to select an answer as Correct, make yourself known in this thread and explain why you think those answers are correct or why you are insisting on selecting an answer as correct.

As explained here, from the discussion in this thread, it emerges that the best answer to the original post is "No". In other words, there is no correct answer so far, other than "No".

[Monika Gause]

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@sPretzel  schrieb:

As explained here, from the discussion in this thread, it emerges that the best answer to the original post is "No". In other words, there is no correct answer so far, other than "No".

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You can not do that in a group, CS4 will not get any updates anymore. So you just want to give in? Or perhaps just get a slightly better workflow by checking out the script that has been posted?

I do not understand this at all.

And no, I haven't marked anything as correct.

[sPretzel]

Monika, I wrote in one of the posts that I decided to use symbols. It was the best trade-off for me.

I know you wouldn't have marked anything as correct.

[Monika Gause]

Then probably - since that is your solution - you should mark that post as correct.

[sPretzel]

Monika, it's my "solution", as you say, but it's not a solution to the original post. So it's not a correct answer!

[Kurt Gold]

Sergey Anosov has a very nice script that may be a thrilling starting point for you to modify it according to your specific needs.

Take a look here:

https://sites.google.com/site/dtpscripting/illustrator-scripts/positiononartboard?authuser=0

Then take a look at the "Move like a group" option.

[Bobby Henderson]

Here's another idea: select the object you want to use as an alignment target and take note of its numerical position on the art board. That can be seen in the Transform panel. You can change the Reference Point on the 9 point icon to get a horizontal or vertical position. Select the objects that are on different layers and then enter that same horizontal or vertical axis position in the Transform panel. The selected objects will move to that new position. They will be aligned with the target object, yet remain on separate layers.