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Anonymous
November 25, 2012
Question

CMYK "Rich Black" information and Tips

  • November 25, 2012
  • 9 replies
  • 223669 views

Hello folks,

I have been trying to create a "Rich Black" swatch to use with my Adobe Illustrator creations, but after a lot of online research, I find that there are many diffrent opinions out there.  I figure I start this discussion, so that all of the information that we all share, can be available for a lot of Adobe users on this forum.

1. What is your favorite CMYK "Rich Black" pertentage formula?

2. When shoud be use "Rich Black" and when should we avoid it?

3. Would you use "Rich Black" for digital prints?

4. What else can you tell us about your experiences with Adobe Illustrator artwork and using or not using "Rich Black"?

I am hoping that this healthy discussion will be able to help many people for years to come.

Cheers,

Bill

    This topic has been closed for replies.

    9 replies

    Pariah Burke
    Community Expert
    Pariah BurkeCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    December 6, 2017

    This is a great topic for The Lounge as it's applicable across many of Adobe's products and beyond Adobe products.

    That thread is here Rich Black Tips, Information, and Formulae

    B
    bhaines3
    Participant
    March 21, 2016

    Check with your printer. Each printer knows which mix of CMYK works best for their equipment for a rich black.

      C
      Chuck Rekow
      Participant
      December 5, 2017

      Excellent answer, bhaines.
      If you upload art to some print-on-demand sites (like Ingram Spark) they will caution you to not use a rich black at all—at least for type.

      Stephen Marsh
      Community Expert
      Stephen MarshCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      December 6, 2015

      Many recommend a single support screen, such as cyan under the black (30c100k), however this can create a “cool” hue to the black (which may not be wanted).

      I prefer neutral CMY support tints under the black, cyan is generally run higher than magenta and yellow to achieve a neutral (50c40my100K). The support tint recipe values will depend on the intended output space that the job will be printed in.

      For “digital” toner based output, the answer is not so easy! Depending on the device and other factors, one may achieve a richer/darker black when the input is 0cmy100k or if the input was 0r0g0b. For such toner based output (either wet or dry toner), it is best to test rather than assume and it costs very little for a test print with digital.

      B
      BorisMel
      Participating Frequently
      July 28, 2015

      I tend to use as rich black

      20C 20M 20Y 100K.

      From my experience I don't like seeing on the paper 300%-400% ink for making black. Some papers "over-drink" the ink.

      Simply 100K doesn't have enough presence and is almost transparent if I overprint texts on backgrounds (I overprint when I need so).

      What I do is add 20CMY to the black so it makes it more opaque, while blending with what's beneath, without overkilling with ink layers.

        F
        FuzzyPiglet
        Participant
        December 6, 2015

        @BorisMel That is the formula I was always taught to use many years ago.

        C20/M20/Y20/K100 - It's a 'safe bet' because it won't put too much ink on the paper , too much ink can cause long drying times as BorisMel said and it can also cause the black to turn a horrible crap brown instead of black.

        Stay on the safe side

        William Kus
        William Kus
        Participant
        September 25, 2014

        Why is 100% across all CMYK values not used for the blackest black possible?  I'm sorry if someone explained it already, but why are different values used instead of just using 100% across all CMYK values?

        I also found a bug.  I am setting my black to 100% across all CMYK values and everytime I click off then click back on, it changes to some ridiculous RGB mixture.  I check the little drop down menu and it has CMYK checkmarked but continues to act as RGB.  The work around is to click RGB, then click back on CMYK and it actually acts like CMYK from that point on.

        Another work around was creating a spot color with 100% across all CMYK values.

        S
        SJRiegel
        Legend
        September 25, 2014

        william kus wrote:

        Why is 100% across all CMYK values not used for the blackest black possible?  I'm sorry if someone explained it already, but why are different values used instead of just using 100% across all CMYK values?

        It's a physical limitation of ink on paper. Too much inch causes over-long drying times, and can soak through thinner paper. Non-digital commercial printers will have an ink-limit (Typically between 280% and 300% total ink coverage)to avoid problems on press.

          S
          Srodg724
          Participant
          September 28, 2013

          My understanding is that rich black would only be for digital prints since digital prints use CMYK. I wouldn't see the point in needing a "Rich" black for offset since offset is pantone and true pantone is a hand mix of actual colors. Sure you can find a mix to fit whatever your preference is but I am pretty sure rich black is for CMYK. Whatever code you find, make sure it is set to processed and not spot. Processed is better trying to color match pantones to CMYK and is used for rich black.


          Also, be advised that rich black is considered a color print, so the price of whatever job you are running will reflect that. Color prints are anywhere from 400%-900% more expensive than black and white depending on quantity.

          Sincerely,

          A Printer.

          DrStrik9
          DrStrik9
          Inspiring
          September 28, 2013

          Well, being from the "old school" of offset printing (prior to digital), rich black is for CMYK on the offset press, although it can have benefits in digital printing now. Pantone really only refers to spot colors (non-CMYK). Personally, I envision Pantone as a huge skyscraper full of attorneys, MBA's, and a large marketing staff -- and in its shadow is an old ramshackle shack with one color scientist working away feverishly.  :+)

            S
            Srodg724
            Participant
            September 28, 2013

            Now a days a spot color will only give you a CMYK equivelent to the pantone color which is generally close but noticably different. You can see the difference in any swatch book. Processed will be a lot closer. This is in digital printing terms.

            J
            jonesu
            Known Participant
            November 28, 2012

            Hello Bill

            Yes, it's an informal term. CMYK black is a dark blackish grey, as you know, and the term "dense" just means turning the dull flat cmyk black into an interesting version of black. A general purpose spec might be simply 100k overprinting 70c. In the old days this was known as putting a "shiner" tint under the black. Or if you wanted your black to have a reddish tinge, you might chuck in a blend of magenta and yellow instead of cyan and so on. So you can make up your own "dense" black to suit whatever illustration colour bias you are working on. That's just rewording what JET has already said. Personally I avoid rich black like the plague. I like my blacks to look and output exactly as they are intended.

            E
            emil emil
            Inspiring
            November 28, 2012

            jonesu wrote:

            ... I avoid rich black like the plague. I like my blacks to look and output exactly as they are intended.

            People who print rich black do this fully intentionally

            For example I use this all the time to get dipper and most intensive black possible on a printed media which is not possible with K only black, in comparison, it will give pale grayish color.

            this is just an image grabbed from Google that illustrates the appearance of printed result

            http://blog.progravix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/black_vs_black.jpg

              J
              jonesu
              Known Participant
              November 28, 2012

              I think that's a description/term difference from across the water, emil! The rich black swatch you post above is what I call a "dense" black (british!). I was referring to the "display all blacks accurately or as rich black" in the AI preferences ( I thought that was what Bill meant). If I'm using 100K, I want it to look like 100K! If you turn on the rich black option in preferences, 100 K appears on screen darker than PMS black 6. I personally don't like that. I'm assuming that "rich black" that you're talking about is the same thing as "dense black" that I'm talking about. I'm not entirely sure what Adobe were up to when they put their "rich black" in as a preference default, but there you go!

                JETalmage
                JETalmage
                Inspiring
                November 25, 2012

                It's a generic and informal term. It just means using some amount of C, M, and/or Y rather than just K in black-colored objects. There is no one-size-fits-all mix; it depends on specific circumstances.

                There are white papers and articles on Adobe's site. Why don't you do a search?

                JET

                  E
                  emil emil
                  Inspiring
                  November 25, 2012

                  When I need to use the most intensive black possible on a certain paper (medium) without exceeding the specified ink coverage, I create an RGB black = 0 and convert it to the CMYK color space of the paper. This ensures that I will not exceed the ink coverage.

                  If your question is not specifically limited to the most intensive black possible on a certain medium without exceeding the ink coverage, but dark colors in general, then your question is like asking "what is your favorite color  in general (not just blacks).

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