Auto Paragraph - Is this possible? please help!

[Jack35427738tn4n]

Hey All!

I have a large document I am flowing into Indesign from Word. There are no paragrpah breaks.

My question is, is there a way in Word or Indesign to automatically add in paragraphs through out the wording/document? 

[Willi Adelberger]

What do you mean with no paragraph reaks?

[Jack35427738tn4n]

The document has no paragraphs, so no breaks in between the copy/text, just one continued flow of text or block of text with thousands of words. 

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

Where did the text come from? Perhaps you can go back to the source and resolve the problem there.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

If there is a unique character(s) between each paragraph, you can use Find/Change. If nothing is available, it's a manual editing job.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

If the document has no paragraphs in Word form — that is, it's all one paragraph — then as noted, there's no solution but manually editing the doc into a paragraph structure. IF it's more or less normal text, you might strip all extra spaces, then turn every instance of period-space into period-space-paragraph. It can be easier to edit together paragraphs from sentences than try to find break points in a wall o'text. (Leaving the space is important — it lets you just delete the paragraph and move on, instead of having to insert a space each time). Then strip out all excess space between sentences or at paragraph start/ends.

IF, as DC notes, there is some unique marker between what you want as paragraphs, use that to search-replace with paragraphs.

Or, as he also notes, go back to the author or original export source and see if a better document can be created in the first place.

I do this sort of thing day in and day out, and no other options occur to me. I'd just counsel making sure you're getting compensated for this work if the author or source expects you to complete the project from this faulty material.

[J E L]

@Jack35427738tn4n, you could try an AI app, such as ChatGPT, to identify and insert logical paragraph breaks. For example, your prompt could ask, “Please break this text into logical paragraphs based on the main ideas and transitions.” You might need to refine the paragraph breaks after this, but it might be a helpful start.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I suggest this will be more likely to multiply the workload and time than reduce it. I don't see any automated path (AI, script, plugin, what-have-you) that will eliminate the need for a close reading of the material to get an optimal result. And any "smart processing" is likely to introduce errors or complexities of its own (such as an awkward break in content) that need to be sorted out on top of the fundamental problem.

So I suggest the shortest, simplest, least-effort path to usable content is... clean it up a bit, if needed, as above, and just read and edit it with the wetware that will have to be brought online for the task anyway.

(With the truly efficient path going back to the creator/export of this messy material.)

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@James Gifford—NitroPress

At least "." could be used to separate sentences.

Of course further processing will be needed - but good GREP can limit errors significantly - so "i.e.", "e.g.", etc. won't be split. 

But example screenshot would be best. 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Yes, a simple F/R, maybe with a little fine-tuning, is a good first step. (I already outlined that in detail.) But even that is only a first step, as it's not likely to be one sentence == one paragraph and will need further editing. EVERY option will require human reading and editing for a quality result. May as well quit dancing around with all the fun toys for their own sake, and do it.

Sorry as needed; even at this point I have read too much AI-generated bloviation and obviously AI-processed crappy writing to have any tolerance for suggesting it as a workable path in these cases. If it's not worth editing properly, maybe the whole project isn't worth doing.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@James Gifford—NitroPress

I'll bet it's something simple... 

[J E L]

@James Gifford—NitroPress explain how adding logical paragraph breaks is "AI-generated bloviation" or the like. AI can probably do a better job of the task than most humans because few actually read with comprehension these days.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

First, you're conflating two comments; it is my irritation (as writer, editor and publisher far more than "designer") with badly written AI copy, especially that obviously generated from subliterate blather in the first place, that I was referring to as my reason for objecting here.

No matter how effing wondrous AI is, especially compared to the average "designer"'s language skills, no amount of preprocessing is going to elminate the need for a close read of the content by someone to make sure the job was done correctly, or at least adequately... but if your impression is that AI writing deserves Pulitzers, you probably disagree with that.

There is a place for automation etc. AI is emerging into a useful tool (and would probably have a smoother path if it wasn't frantically being thrown at every problem as a first-round "solution.") But especially when it comes to editing and processing mangled writing, barring a little technical assistance as suggested above, absolutely nothing is going to replace the need for a close read of the material by something like a qualified editor or SME. Which, in the real solution, is the original author or the process that generated an unbroken single paragraph; in the real world of getting sh*t published, means the designer or someone at his/her elbow. Screwing around with AI to try to "fix" this kind of material simply wastes time and leads to either more work sorting out its mistakes, or yet more bloviated, crappy content the world doesn't need.

TL;DR: just edit the copy as is required and move on.

Note my position is one who primarily creates what is now whimsically called "content," and not that of someone who just pushes it around in text frames. I may be in a minority here.

[J E L]

I appreciate your position, James. Somehow, it seemed as if you were attacking my suggestion, and I didn't feel that was warranted. I believe that a range of approaches to a problem should be embraced here, rather than dismissed due to personal biases. AFAIK, @Jack35427738tn4n has not clarified the subject of the text, the intended audience, or the desired output of the document. I completely agree that comprehensive reading is required when editing, and I indicated that any automatically-inserted paragraphs might need refining afterward. However, if the author is not available to make paragraph decisions, then using an AI automation might be a good start.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@J E L

But the thing is - we really have no idea if there is a problem or not.

I wouldn't trust A.I. either, so instead of wasting time - and credits - on using A.I. and then reading the whole text anyway - it's better to do it yourself. 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I believe that a range of approaches to a problem should be embraced here, rather than dismissed due to personal biases.

I agree 106.25%.

My entire point, in this thread and others, is that the most technical, advanced, hyper-tool solution is often neither the only one nor the best... especially for users of less than master level who may not be experienced with scripts (simple installation, much less tweaking), GREP, etc. I don't object to, say, scripts because of a personal bias; I object to scripts being thrown out as a first-round solution when in most cases they lead to a long, lumpy, painful exchange of confusion, fixes, adaptations etc. because of misunderstanding by the script guru or lack of experience by the user.

In this case, yes, there is an entire toolbox of highly technical, complex, automated, nifty-wow solutions... not a single one of which will obviate the need for reasonably skilled human editing and review of the process and results. Not one. So instead of scouring the catalogs for yet one more technical solution to stack on another to compensate for the problems and limitations of each component, my simple suggestion all along has been to Just Edit the Damn Thing (in one way or the other), in which case this hurdle would have been resolved in an hour. Not with flashy pop-ups and a chat with AI and a general aura of kewlness, but in the draggy way some problems, especially language and content issues, have to be resolved regardless of how many tools are thrown at it.

And if anything, the "personal bias" in these threads tends to be agains such simple, workaday, skill-based solutions, because, bygod, a script from Chaggy is just so... wondrously easy.

Absolutely nothing personal or biased in any of this, except slowly rising exasperation at the tendency to see problems as purely technical and always solvable by rising and increasingly complex technoid approaches.

Because: underneath all the glittering technowizardy of ID and its support environment is language and visual communication... and none of that lends itself to automation, AI processing or purely technological problem solving except in ways that make sense to coders. (Who, quite often, can't write a lunch order in coherent English.)

A maxim on my office wall puts it another, simpler way: The Tool is Not the Task. As it is not, here.

[J E L]

Hey, I got it, I got, I got it! Geez, people.

The QUESTION IS: “… is there a way in Word or Indesign to automatically add in paragraphs through out the wording/document?”

The ANSWER IS: NO! Neither Word nor InDesign can automatically add in paragraphs for you, unless you employed a script to insert a paragraph mark after some type of indicator. But those programs are not going to READ the text and apply LOGICAL paragraph breaks.

But AI MIGHT do it AUTOMATICALLY and it WILL read with some comprehension.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@J E L

But you don't need A.I. nor scripting - just a good GREP query.

And then you still need to read the whole text anyway. 

Or, instead of doing Change All - you can do it step-by-step - decide on case-by-case basis if a New Paragraph should be started or not. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Jack35427738tn4n

Show us a screenshot - please turn on "show hidden characters" - last option in the type Menu. 

[Barb Binder]

Hi @Jack35427738tn4n:

I can see that this would be terrifying, but it is also unlikely. If the Word document has returns ¶ at the end of each paragraph, then correctly placing the Word document (using File > Place) will honor those returns. 

You can see the returns in Word by clicking the ¶ button on the Home toolbar:

Once the file has been placed in InDesign, you can see the same symbols using Type > Show HIdden Characters as per Robert's last reply.

It's more likely that without first line indents and paragraph spacing, the text appears not to have the returns. Please take a closer look and report back, and include a screenshot with Hidden Characters visible.

~Barb

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

 It's more likely that without first line indents and paragraph spacing, the text appears not to have the returns.

By @Barb Binder

Especially, if full justify is ON... 

[J E L]

It's just one continued flow of text or block of text with thousands of words. Nothing to do with invisible characters and there are no paragraph indicators.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@J E L

How do you know? 

[J E L]

@Jack35427738tn4n said as much in this thread.

“There are no paragrpah [sic] breaks.” 

“The document has no paragraphs, so no breaks in between the copy/text, just one continued flow of text or block of text with thousands of words.”

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Jack35427738tn4n said as much in this thread.

“There are no paragrpah [sic] breaks.” 

“The document has no paragraphs, so no breaks in between the copy/text, just one continued flow of text or block of text with thousands of words.”

By @J E L

What if he is wrong? 

Without seeing some screenshots - or real files - WORD or InDesign - we don't know.