Automatically remove leading (empty) lines at top of page

[Simon Lucas]

Some of my client's paragraphs have double carriage returns creating spaces between them. They indicate a new section in the narrative.

How can I have InDesign ignore an empty line whenever a paragraph is at the top of a new page? So the paragrph lines up with the top of the page frame.

NB. I realise that I could a special paragraph style on the preceding paragraph with that extra bottom space built-in, but that seems quite laborious if there is an automatic way for ID to handle this.

Thank-you.

[Mike Witherell · Accepted solution]

InDesign can't ignore an empty paragraph returns at the top of the page. Your realization is correct: let paragraph styles do the work for you. Use Find/Change to quickly get to the double returns and reduce them to a single return.

[Simon Lucas]

Thanks. I'll get re-formatting.

[vladan saveljic]

maybe I didn't understand good your issue.

but you could find triple returns

and change with a single return + space after

[Simon Lucas]

Thanks. I am constantly re-flowing the text during my layout design stage, so I needed a solution that does not involve deleting the line returns for those special cases, because with each layout change, the line returns may need to be put back in. I think the special paragraph style is the most flexible, thank-you. And also layout changes may also occur after proof-reading by the author. 

[Mike Witherell]

It is essentially a challenge of re-training old typing habits, whether you own or your boss!

[Simon Lucas]

Well, the writer knows where the double spaces go – I do not. So I think that he has to provide the copy with those spaces, so I know where they go. I will then need to remove them by hand and apply the special end-of-section extra line paragraph style before the section break.

[Barb Binder · Accepted solution]

Or, just use the Query that ships with InDesign in Edit > Find/Change: 

This will remove all of the extra returns, of course, but spacing should be handled with InDesign spacing and keep commands, and not with extra ¶s.

~Barb 

[Mike Witherell]

Hi Barb!

I was going to recommend the built-in script named FindChangeByList.jsx, which does a more thorough job than the single pre-set query you cited above. But when I looked at it in a text editor to see if it matched your GREP query (~b~b+), I noticed that the whole series of GREP searches within it was written incorrectly. That means the built-in FindChangeByList.jsx will actually fail to do a complete cleanup. It won't give any summary indication of what it did or did not do. My re-written version on my website works more reliably, and also will protect existing paragraph styles. It also does roughly twice as many text cleanups as the built-in FindChangeByList.jsx.

[vladan saveljic]

Hi Simon, as you can see in my short video above, replacing double return with "space after" the spacing between paragraphs never change.
The space "disappears" only if at the top of the page (as on the second page in my video)

[Simon Lucas]

Vlad. Thank-you. I don't think I quite understood what you were saying. It sounds good and I will try that first.

[vladan saveljic · Accepted solution]

you can take a look here about paragraph spacing

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/indesign/using/formatting-paragraphs.html

if you need further informations about paragraph spacing just ask

some of us will give you precise instructions

[Barb Binder · Accepted solution]

with each layout change the line returns may need to be put back in.

See #1 in this list: https://www.thebookdesigner.com/2011/03/4-top-book-formatting-mistakes-to-avoid/.

I work primarily in long document publishing. In that environment, every extra click adds up, so I am micro-focused on streamlining my workflow. The first thing I do when I receive a document from a client is run a series of find/change queries to clean up the mess, like the extra returns, spaces, etc. Then I design paragraph styles that control the spacing between paragraphs and force top-level heads to the top of the next pages, automatically. This approach allows the document to reflow after edits. I won't do anything that requires manual updates after edits. Those minutes can add up to lost weekends.

~Barb

[Simon Lucas]

Wise words. Thank-you.

[Gusgsm]

But, if the client uses the double carriage return consistently to indicate a new section, you might want to change that double carriage (or triple or whatever quantity) for a jump to new column character or a jump to new frame or to new page (depending on the format), wouldn't you?

Always looking to avoid extra hand work, of course.

[vladan saveljic]

Hello Gusgsm,

I think Simon doesn't want to start these sections to a new page (or to new frame) but he wants to eliminate spaces above if they are at the top of a new page

Regards

[bernardnovet]

It is a real problem with InDesign. As a writer, I want sometimes no space between paragraphs, sometimes one extra space, sometimes two... to pause the reading, or signal some distancing between the two texts. Probably this is due to my rythmic habit from being a filmmaker.

What I would like is being able - whatever the spacing I chose after a paragraph - to avoid empty lines at the top of next page. Turning the page is enough of a distance.

Is there a function for this ?

[jmlevy]

Of, course: if you use the “space before” feature instead of using extra paragraph returns, you will avoid this.

Seeing you name, I assume that your mother tongue is French. You can post in French if you wish. (and I will reply in French).

[bernardnovet]

Hello and thanks for the answer. As an exercice for me, I'll go on in english 😉 But yes, I usually speak french.

What I assume from your answer is that I should format different paragraph styles depending on the spacing I want before the paragraph. (ie   NORMAL WITH 1 SPACE - NORMAL WITH 2 SPACES...) And then, I could adjust the settings so that this spacing is void at the top of a page ?

Not sure to understand completely your answer... 

[jmlevy]

I should format different paragraph styles depending on the spacing I want before the paragraph.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant.

ie   NORMAL WITH 1 SPACE - NORMAL WITH 2 SPACES...)

“1 space”, “2 spaces” are not what is used when you layout a document: it's either in millimeters, either in points or picas.

And then, I could adjust the settings so that this spacing is void at the top of a page ?

Since there are no empty paragraphs, there will not be any space before if the paragraph is a the top of a page.

[bernardnovet]

I'll try that then. Thank you. And yes, I was speaking "analogic" with my 1-2-3 spaces. 😉

[fernandaam91]

Hellaw, Have you found a solution? I want the same thing.
I dont want to delete the blank lines, i just want them to be ignored when the blank line is the first line on a page or column

[Rishabh_Tiwari]

Hi,

Thank you for reaching out. Have you tried the suggestions shared in this discussion? Please try that and let us know if you still need assistance.

Thanks

Rishabh