Bug or feature? Cannot copy layer definition...

[Doc Maik]

...per drag 'n drop to another document. Is this normal?

Hello!

I'm used to copy layers in Photoshop like this, because that's the only way. An alternative would be to load layers from another document, but guess what - not possible. I mean, you can load styles and everything similar from other documents, why not layers? 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Which object(s) from which page(s) would you like to load - and to what page(s) in the destination document? 

Too many variables. 

Layers in Photoshop are different - they are objects, bunch of pixels and a lot of properties. In InDesign layer is just a property of the object - not an object itself. 

If you want to copy layer's "definition" - you need to copy any of the objects on this layer. 

Remember to select "Paste Remembers Layers":

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/indesign/using/layers.html

It could be easily scripted - you need to give more details. 

[Doc Maik]

I wrote layer definiton in the title. This I want to copy. Same as copying a layer in Photoshop wouldn't copy content assigned to that layer. 

I know how to do it in ID, though I don't want to copy content, at least not always.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

In InDesign layer doesn't have too many "definitions" - name, color, if it's visible, locked or printable.  

Maybe that's why no one thought about offering such "feature"?

[Doc Maik]

It seems to depend on what people consider as layer. Just the definition in the layer pane, the content or both. It doesn't matter how many properties it has. I consider the layer only as the definition in the pane. Both, ID and PS have such a pane. In PS I can copy a layer definition to another image by drag 'n drop. Not so in ID. Seems a missing feature.    

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

You can always post it on the uservoice as a feature request.

[rob day]

In PS I can copy a layer definition to another image by drag 'n drop. Not so in ID. Seems a missing feature.

Hi @Doc Maik , With InDesign Layers are an object of the document, not a particular page. So if you had a 20 page document, with Page Items on page 10 associated with a Layer named Text, and you dropped the Text Layer onto a document with only 2 pages, what would happen to the Text Layer’s Page Item(s) on page 10 from the source document?

You can drag and drop pages or page items between documents, when you do that the page items will bring their layer(s) into the destination document.

[Doc Maik]

Hi @Doc Maik , With InDesign Layers are an object of the document, not a particular page. 

By @rob day

In order to not confuse objects on a page and objects not on page, let's not say a layer is an object. I tend to says it's a definition, like a variable/class with properties to which you can assign objects. That's why I didn't just say "layer".

In PS, you can copy the layer definition in two ways: a) you copy pixel data assigned to that layer definition and the definition is automatically copied. b) if you only want to copy the definition without the pixel data, usually because of a style, you would drag and drop the layer definition between images. 

Like I said, option b) isn't available in ID.

[rob day]

let's not say a layer is an object

But the DOM says it is an Object:

Here the active page is Page 1, and if I toggle open the Color layer it lists 3 page items. If I run this script it tells me the Color layer actually contains 7 page items. What happens to all the layer’s page items when you drag and drop the layer onto a 1 page document?

var l = app.activeDocument.activeLayer
alert("Active layer contains " + l.allPageItems.length + " Objects")

[Doc Maik]

Well, if a layer contains objects, as they describe it, then it would be best to consider it as a container. Whatever! I still wouldn't call it an object, but that's just my opinion. Too many things regarding software are considered as objects. That's a very general term.

[rob day]

then it would be best to consider it as a container

If you want to duplicate the active layer as an empty "container" to the document behind, that can be easily scripted. I wouldn’t want that to happen as a drag and drop function, but you could request it as a feature.

This would duplicate the selected or active Layer to the document behind. If it doesn’t already exist in the back doc, the duplicated layer would have no page items and would be at the top of the layer stack.

var al = app.activeDocument.activeLayer
var bd = app.documents[1]
var lc = makeLayer(bd, al.name);
lc.layerColor = al.layerColor;



/**
* Makes a new named Layer 
* @ param the document to add the layer 
* @ param layer name 
* @ return the new layer 
*/
function makeLayer(d, n){
    if (d.layers.itemByName(n).isValid) {
        return d.layers.itemByName(n);
    } else {
        return d.layers.add({name:n});
    }
}

[Doc Maik]

Thanks to all for the thoughts. A script is surely a nice thing, but in this case creating a new layer and giving it a name is quicker than to open the script pane and find the script. 

[rob day]

Give it a key command

[Willi Adelberger]

1. In the layer panel menu activate paste remembers layer.
2. Put any object on this layer.
3. Cope or cut this object.
4. Paste this object in a new document. 

The layer is pasted.

[Doc Maik]

Thanks, but the topic wasn't about how to copy an object AND the layer, it was about how to copy only the layer, which may not make to some at all, but to me it does. Even if the layer isn't used, I would like to have the same setup of layers and other things in documents. I could, of course, create and use a template, but sometimes you already have a file and want to align it to others.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Copying one Page should do the trick - after that you can delete this page - and its contents - but layers will remain. 

But the side effect will be that you can also transfer colors and *Styles. 

[rob day]

You can also drag and drop any page item:

[Doc Maik]

Guys, please, it's about the layer definition, not an object. In PS the layer definition is also not a bunch of pixels.

I know all the things you suggest but they a) require to have an object and b) that object must be assigned to the layer definition and c) I would have to remove the object afterwards.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

There is no other no scripting option. 

[Willi Adelberger]

You can immediately escape before the object is placed, so the layer remains. And if you have placed the obkect, click delete and the object is away.

[Doc Maik]

Right, but that would mean I would have to create an object or, even if you already had one, find it first. Imagine finding a specific object in a document with 500+ pages, because in Find&Replace you cannot say "find me an object on layer xy".

[Willi Adelberger]

500 pages? 1 Object only! It need not to be placed!

You can make a CC Library element.

Do you understand InDesign's layer concept? Layers are document wide and not page specific. Layers have not so much properties. They are here or not here, visible or not, print or do not print. locked or not locked, let text wrap. No more properties.

[Doc Maik]

@Willi Adelberger I was referring to the suggestion to copy an object in order to copy the layer. Like I said, you can only copy an object if you know where it is. What I didn't know until a few minutes ago, though working with ID for over 10 years now: the objects in a layer are shown page specific. Means, if you are on a standard page and the objects in a layer are on a master page, and you go to the layers pane and click the layer to show its content, it won't show you contents. The result is you can'tfind the object within the 500 pages this way and would have to click through all pages.  

But what I meant was something else: for the case I haven't started my document from a template and want to set up this  document to have the same layer definitions, conditions, styles and everything as others have it, then I could simply load styles, master pages and even conditions from another document, but not layers. Yes, I know, it's only a name with a few properties, nothing else. But so you gotta create it manually, set it a color and properties. And next time you have this situation, you do it again. So for now I learned it's a missing feature. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

I think you misunderstood one thing - you don't have to find a specific object on a layer you want to copy - you just need to be on any page, make the layer you want to copy as "active", create a new TEMPORARY object, copy it and delete - in both places or just close source document without saving. 

[Doc Maik]

Yes, right. In case I actually wanted to copy the object, the search starts. Well, that's not only a topic of ID. Imagine using MS Word like this. There you can only search for text....