ID packaging of fonts problem

[Doc Maik]

Hello all!

Never seen or noticed this before. Happens the same in ID 2022 and ID 2024:

1. Open a document and go to Type->Find&Replace fonts to see a list of fonts used in the document and in probably linked files, such as PDFs. The dialog says, in my case, "31 fonts used".

2. Go to File->Package and there to tab Fonts. It says "18 fonts used, 0 missing, 4 embedded". Tells me it's 22 fonts. No font is protected, no font with a problem.

So, when the package is created, I would expect to find 18 fonts in the "Document fonts" folder, because non is from Adobe Fonts or CJK, according to this option

 and since ID also copies system fonts which on Windows everybidy should have, but in the end there will only be 14 fonts in the folder. Means, the package, which is supposed to be sent to a translator, misses files.

Bug, wrong use or just wrong expectation?

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Doc Maik 

If you are sending your file to a professional translator / translating company - they won't need your fonts as they'll use only IDML file - and XMLs from it - so they won't "see" your file the way you see it - they don't even need to have InDesign installed. So in the end - you could just send IDML file.

Unless, of course, you have some graphics that also need to be translated.

Or someone is doing "manual" translation.

Or part of the service is fixing layout after the translation.

[BobLevine]

If any of these fonts are activated Adobe fonts, they will not be packaged. And fonts embedded in external files will not be packaged either.

If that package can be opened by a recipient using the document fonts feature combined with fonts activating from Adobe Fonts then everything is fine.

[Joel Cherney]

If you have fonts embedded in placed objects, they can sometimes appear multiple times in the Find Font menu. I don't have an example at hand (I'll dig one out of the archives, if it's important), but I have a client who frequently sends me documents with obsolete EPS files where the Symbol font is embedded. Accordingly Symbol appears many times in my Find Fonts dialog.

I don't expect to see Symbol in my Fonts folder, because it's embedded in the EPS file. I suspect that your counts are thrown off by your expectation that the embedded fonts are embedded in the InDesign file; they're not. They're embedded in your placed assets, and so aren't available to collect when packaging. 

@Robert at ID-Tasker's caveats are very accurate, here. Pay close attention to the "Unless [...] or [...] or" section of his post. The fact that you have fonts embedded in placed assets almost guarantees that a lone IDML file will be insufficient material for your language services provider. I could add a few possible or-conditions to that list myself, but instead of writing up a list of possible conditions, I'd just suggest that you describe your expected workflow with more detail, if you have additional questions about What To Do With Fonts In a Localization Workflow. 

[Doc Maik]

Thanks to all, but please note that I was referring to the count (highlighted number) of not embedded fonts, plus mentioned that none are from Adobe Fonts, because I simply don't use it. 

@Robert at ID-Tasker : no, we don't send IDML as the translation company is also supposed to correct the layout because sort of all translation helper tools mess up the layout after re-importing the IDML.

@BobLevine : the translation company missed font files (several of one font, here Hanzel) and that's only why I noticed that some are missing in the package. Perhaps, even if they use Adobe Fonts, it doesn't have to mean that the missing font(s) is available in Adobe Fonts.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Robert at ID-Tasker : no, we don't send IDML as the translation company is also supposed to correct the layout because sort of all translation helper tools mess up the layout after re-importing the IDML.

By @Doc Maik

It's not that "translation helper tools mess up the layout".

When they translate IDML file - those tools ignore XML markers, extract text contents, translate it, and then put it back.

So if there was, lets say, 100 characters in one language - there could be 150 in othere language - but TextFrame in InDesign is able to fit 120.

Translation tool has no idea - nor it cares - how many characters can fit in this TextFrame - so when you open IDML file - you'll have oversets - that need to be fixed.

If you work in InDesign on a daily basis and have time - you could save a bit on the service - if you would do this yourself...

But that depennds on the language - if it's "shorter" or "longer" than the original - and how much time it wold take you to fix the file and how much they charge for the privilege...

[Peter Spier]

Thanks to all, but please note that I was referring to the count (highlighted number) of not embedded fonts, plus mentioned that none are from Adobe Fonts, because I simply don't use it. 

By @Doc Maik

"18 fonts used, 0 missing, 4 embedded".

That 18 is a total number. None of them are missing (0), and 4 are embedded and not packaged, so 14 fonts would be the expected number in the folder, not 22.