InDesign Backwards Compatibility in CS5 an MAJOR issue

[Cynthia Ryan Graphic]

I am a print designer who works in InDesign. I bought CS3 Design Premium in late summer of 2008. Shortly thereafter CS4 came out, but after just having forked out a big chunk of change, I decided against upgrading to CS4 right away. Recently I considered upgrading but then heard CS5 was coming out so I decided to postpone the upgrade and wait for the new software. I've just checked out the trial version of CS5 InDesign and after speaking with Adobe Support have come to the conclusion that I can't upgrade to CS5. Why? BACKWARDS compatibility to CS3. The previously offered export features that supplied a path for backwards compatibility via an .inx file are gone.

I design freelance for a lot of different customers and once the design is complete, I have to deliver the InDesign file along with all associated fonts ad images to my clients. Most of my clients are still on CS3. If I upgrade to CS5 I will instantly not be able to work for 2/3 of my clients, as I will have no means by which to save a file backwards to CS3. I was informed by Adobe support that I would need to buy CS4 and CS5, as I could save my CS5 file in the IDML format and open it in CS4 and then I could save the file from CS4 as an INX file and open that is CS3. ARE THEY INSANE??? First off that requires keeping 3 version of InDesign up and running on my machine all of the time and secondly, why should I have to buy CS4 when I'm paying an additional fee to upgrade to CS5 because I didn't upgrade from CS4? This is so screwed up that it has to be an oversight---please tell me there is a patch in the works!!!

PS- I've never posted to a forum before, so if I have broken any rules of forum etiquette or offended in any way, I offer my apologies now and if I (and the Adobe Support staff I spoke to) have overlooked something, please enlighten me!

[peterpica]

Oh yey, oh yey, oh yey!

Right; FAP was updated about 2 weeks ago; works great in InD & PS;

sloooow in Ily if at all.

[Peter Spier]

Jeremy AB wrote:

In regards to the main topic, I would never give my customers the raw InDesign file anyway so it doesn't matter what version I am running. This is what PDFs are for. If a customer insists on being able to edit the file then they would have to keep up with the upgrades when I do.

So you wouldn't take a job creating a template if the client wants it in a version you don't own -- not that I think you should, mind you, but others here feel they should have the ability, and I agree that there should be a way to buy the previous licenses to accomodate them. I would never suggest "downsizing" a late version file as anything but an emergency solution.

[peterpica]

Disagree totally... giving an average customer a

template is like putting a loaded gun in the hands of a child. Lord

help the poor designer who has to support their creation (without

charging for support and fixup that is).

And when they are charged, they won't be a customer for long.

Experience can vouch for that on this end.

[Cynthia Ryan Graphic]

This is quite an assumption that clients are almost all

inexperienced. I work for a couple of large corporations that have

their own in-house production departments but still use my services

for the art and creative direction for foundational pieces. Their

staff knows exactly what to do with the InDesign documents I provide

them (and yes, they have purchased all of the fonts for their own

designers as well.) They have not all upgraded to CS5 yet. I'm now

trying to keep track of the various versions of InDesign I have on my

machine and which client has which version and NOT double click on the

files to open them accidentally in the wrong version and from this

point on always save the files with a code letting me know which

version I am working in. Personally, I'd rather see some backwards

compatibility rather than a new feature at this point as this is

cumbersome to say the least. At least I have all of the various

versions of InDesign now, so that is working.

Cyndi

[BobLevine]

Does that mean you managed to get CS4 and the free upgrade to CS5?

Bob

[Cynthia Ryan Graphic]

Yes, Thank you so much with your help on that. I'm now trying to

figure out the workflow so that I don't screw things up.

[peterpica]

That well and good, but when are you going to say enough is enough?

In 15 years when CS10 is available? That means you'll have 10+

versions on your machine, or... probably on several machines because

the OS of the future won't support the older apps. Talk about a

Pandora's Box!

[Cynthia Ryan Graphic]

I think everyone is really just asking for two versions backwards

compatibilty rather than one. Most people do eventually upgrade but

right now I am working with clients in CS4 and CS3 and only just got

CS5 myself. I would ask any client I was working with to upgrade if

they were still on CS2 or tell them they would have to work with at

least a CS3 file from me, as I would be unwilling to work that far

back--things have improved too much over that time.

[Peter Spier]

In 15 years if I have a client who still needs version 2.0 files I'll continue to maintain a version 2.0 installation while I explain the benefits of upgrading to version CS14.

I do have clients still on CS3, and they don't have the hardware to support CS5, or enough volume at the moment to support the purchase of both hardware and software, so they'll stay where the are for the time being. That will be fine until they come up against a project that can't be done in CS3 for lack of features. At that point they'll probably say just give us the PDF and we'll let you handle the editing in future if it needs an update.

[aart_depaartment]

Our design department has over ten artists, who don't all have a Mac computer with a multi-core processor. So while we are going to upgrade from CS3 to CS5, only a handful of us can actually use the new software until we can get the remaining new computers in house. This is a frustrating problem, because now there will be a steep learning curve, and we need to plan out who works on what project so that we don't get stuck. Having CS3 running on the new multicore computers (that automatically come with Snow Leopard) would be ideal, so that our learning curve could be more gradual and not as frustrating.

That said, I've done some experiementing, and although I've heard that CS3 does not work on the new Macs, I have found that it DOES. We're not using complex inDesign files with multiple pages, text linkages, and all that fancy stuff. So I'd like to share the news with possible readers out there to give it a try, it might not be so painful after all.

[BobLevine]

Who told you CS3 wouldn't work? CS2 would be a real crapshoot but CS3 should be just fine until you get everyone up an running.

Bob

[aart_depaartment]

I read that on some forums while researching CS5. Boy am I glad that

was wrong information!

[BobLevine]

Brutally wrong...don't believe everything you read...even here.

Bob

[Harbs.]

Just FYI,

If you can demostrate that you need to add a workstation to an existing workgroup, it is possible to get  a downgrade license to add more CS3/CS4 stations when purchasing a CS5 license.

You need to purchase from a knowledgable reseller, or at least a knowledgable salesperson at Adobe, but I believe the latter is very hard to find...

(If anyone needs help in this area, they can send me a PM, and I might be able to help...)

Harbs

[Peter Spier]

peterpica wrote:

Disagree totally... giving an average inexperienced customer a 

template is like putting a loaded gun in the hands of a child. Lord 

help the poor designer who has to support their creation (without 

charging for support and fixup that is).

In my experience, using templates is a great way to work with less experienced users. Lock up what needs to be locked, provide the styles they need, and almost anyone can be trained to populate a template. I coach a student newspaper, and we have people putting together pages using a template who've never seen ID before they walk into the office. Do they get everything right the first time? No, but you 'd be surprised how fast they catch on if all they have to do is File > Place and use the guides or apply a style.

[peterpica]

No argument IF customer is willing to pay for the template, which most

of them probably will not be.

[Peter Spier]

peterpica wrote:

No argument IF customer is willing to pay for the template, which most 

of them probably will not be.

If someone hires me to make a template it's the same as if they hire me to make a print-ready file. Why should it be free and why do you think they would expect that?

[peterpica]

Most customers of bucket-shop printers think that templates are free

in general, mainly because of their inexperience and/or experience

with basic apps only, i.e., word, publisher, etc., that do supply

canned templates.

[Cynthia Ryan Graphic]

My experience is that there are plenty of clients out there who

understand that a custom template that works with their brand is going

to require a great designer and some money. Off the shelf templates

are what they are, and some are quite good, but they will never be the

kind of custom templates that the clients I am talking about are

looking for.

[peterpica]

No argument there... but your clients are obviously of the

sophisticated genre.

[Peter Spier]

peterpica wrote:

Most customers of bucket-shop printers think that templates are free 

in general, mainly because of their inexperience and/or experience 

with basic apps only, i.e., word, publisher, etc., that do supply 

canned templates.

And there are plenty of free templates out there for those people. They wouldn't be calling on you for a custom template.

[peterpica]

wanna bet?

[Eugene Tyson]

What's wrong with sending InDesign files to someone else? I have lots of projects that need to be coloborated with clients, proof readers, other designers, freelance designers etc. that I send out and receive back fairly regularly. We all use the same version of InDesign. Because one day one of the proofreaders unknowingly opened a file in CS4 and then the INX backsaving didn't work and I had to spend a day fixing the problem.

I could do with a backsave option. But I can get by without it.

What I really want is Adobe to build into the files what version to open the files with. Like that Soxy program does.

But dragging and dropping from Explorer into InDesign works, but only if I don't have the open document maximised.

Dragging and dropping to indesign is ace, for opening files. I have all my folders where all my files are on my taskbar and I can access them much quicker this way when I need them in a hurry.

Prior to InDesign CS5 being installed all the files opened in CS3 just fine. But now they all want to open in CS5 and I have to keep them at CS3 level to use with other people for the time-being.

So I do want a way to save backward, and I do want Adobe to build into the files what version to open the files in.

[Peter Spier]

Eugene Tyson wrote:

So I do want a way to save backward, and I do want Adobe to build into the files what version to open the files in.

I don't really care about being able to backsave (probably becuse I have ID back to version 2 installed and don't NEED to work inthe wrong version), but I could really support a naming convention that would allow files to be opened by default in the correct version. Sometimes the first clue I notice is the "save" command opens the "Save As" dialog, and I've just spent an hour editing.

[Jeremy AB]

P Spier wrote:

Jeremy AB wrote:

In regards to the main topic, I would never give my customers the raw InDesign file anyway so it doesn't matter what version I am running. This is what PDFs are for. If a customer insists on being able to edit the file then they would have to keep up with the upgrades when I do.

So you wouldn't take a job creating a template if the client wants it in a version you don't own -- not that I think you should, mind you, but others here feel they should have the ability, and I agree that there should be a way to buy the previous licenses to accomodate them. I would never suggest "downsizing" a late version file as anything but an emergency solution.

In the rare instances that a client has asked me to supply the file in an editable format to them, I ask them if they have InDesign and if not are they willing to spend the money on purchasing a copy. That usually ends the conversation right there. Either that, or they ask me to send it in Word format (shudder). My feelings are that I am the designer, not the client, so if they need design work I will take care of it for them and charge them accordingly. I am also very protective of my work and not comfortable with someone mucking around with it. That said, if a client insisted then they would have to keep up with the versions if I do. Either that or they should stick to Word or Publisher so they can handle it themselves. Thankfully I've almost never encountered any of this, so I guess that's why this thing is a very minor issue for me.