InDesign Backwards Compatibility in CS5 an MAJOR issue

[Cynthia Ryan Graphic]

I am a print designer who works in InDesign. I bought CS3 Design Premium in late summer of 2008. Shortly thereafter CS4 came out, but after just having forked out a big chunk of change, I decided against upgrading to CS4 right away. Recently I considered upgrading but then heard CS5 was coming out so I decided to postpone the upgrade and wait for the new software. I've just checked out the trial version of CS5 InDesign and after speaking with Adobe Support have come to the conclusion that I can't upgrade to CS5. Why? BACKWARDS compatibility to CS3. The previously offered export features that supplied a path for backwards compatibility via an .inx file are gone.

I design freelance for a lot of different customers and once the design is complete, I have to deliver the InDesign file along with all associated fonts ad images to my clients. Most of my clients are still on CS3. If I upgrade to CS5 I will instantly not be able to work for 2/3 of my clients, as I will have no means by which to save a file backwards to CS3. I was informed by Adobe support that I would need to buy CS4 and CS5, as I could save my CS5 file in the IDML format and open it in CS4 and then I could save the file from CS4 as an INX file and open that is CS3. ARE THEY INSANE??? First off that requires keeping 3 version of InDesign up and running on my machine all of the time and secondly, why should I have to buy CS4 when I'm paying an additional fee to upgrade to CS5 because I didn't upgrade from CS4? This is so screwed up that it has to be an oversight---please tell me there is a patch in the works!!!

PS- I've never posted to a forum before, so if I have broken any rules of forum etiquette or offended in any way, I offer my apologies now and if I (and the Adobe Support staff I spoke to) have overlooked something, please enlighten me!

[BobLevine]

Exactly...a major competitor that hasn't figured out how t save back more than one version. In addition you should note that there are plenty of third party developers out there that also haven't seen fit to come up with anything to save back more than one version.

Do you know why? Because it's too hard to do and has no profit potential.

Bob

[bsnebold]

Since none of us actually work on the programming staff at Adobe, I don't see how we can say whether something is "too hard to do". Besides, I doubt Adobe when confronted with a challenge says "Oh let's not do that, it's too hard". I mean, they've programmed software that magically fills in part of a missing picture base on the surrounding area. You're telling me it's "too hard" to write out a file in an older format? I just don't buy it.

If third party developers haven't filled the niche doesn't prove that it can't be done, it just means there's no market for it.

[peterpica]

That's your option... if you've never programmed software (and I don't mean simple html code), then you have no grounds to say how easy it is, even for Adobe.

[bsnebold]

So now you're belittling my programming experience? I've programmed fairly complex sites for companies such as Paramount Pictures. I programmed the Mission:Impossible 2 site, for instance, that was all in flash and actionscript, The site interfaced with a database of thousands of users around the world and let you create your own avatar, send messages to any other "agent" and find other agents using an interactive map of the earth.

But my programming experience is besides the point. Saying that this feature is too hard for Adobe to program is ridiculous. None of us knows how much time it would take to implement such a feature, but if Adobe wanted to do it, I'm sure they wouldn't say "but it's too hard".

[peterpica]

Not quite... there's no comparison what you do for the web and what has to be done with publishing software. Different game totally.

[bsnebold]

And how many software applications have you programmed Peter?

[macinbytes]

That's your option... if you've never programmed software (and I don't mean simple html code), then you have no grounds to say how easy it is, even for Adobe.

And how many software applications have you programmed Peter?

The answer was seven posts up. Most of us here aren't actually software programmers. We buy upgrades and make art with them. Rarely do you see anyone name drop their work that isn't related to InDesign. I learned that when I got scolded for bragging up doing Nick Nolte's dry cleaning in college. It has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

[bsnebold]

macinbytes wrote:

The answer was seven posts up.

It was? I don't see it.

[peterpica]

I worked for Bedford Systems back in the 70's, everything was unix-based. We developed the first WYSIWIG software/hardware combination ever to hit the markets.

WAY before Apples fell off the trees, and before Adobe was even a glint in somebody's eye.

[BobLevine]

bsnebold wrote:

If third party developers haven't filled the niche doesn't prove that it can't be done, it just means there's no market for it.

I rest my case.

Bob

[Peter Spier]

bsnebold wrote:

Peter, telling people they shouldn't want what they want is not going to change their minds.

I don't think I said that. I think I said the the assumption that it is trivial to provide this and that the attitude that it should be free are both unrealistic.

[John Hawkinson]

Peter Spier just wrote:

To add the ability to backsave to all versions (and anything less than ALL versions will simply move the argument to "why can't I back save to version x-1").

That's simply not the case, though I agree with much of your post.

There's a strong desire to save from CS5 to CS3 because there's a very large CS3 installed base. There is no such similar large CS2 installed base. So the magnitude of any argument to save from CS5 to CS2 will be nothing like the magnitude of the argument for CS5->CS3.

Part of the problem here is that Adobe's policies would be a lot more sensical if there were good strong features to encourage upgrades, and thus the installed base of older products was smaller and shrinking. Unfortunately CS5 just did not add a lot on top of CS4. And both InDesign and software in general and computers in general are getting more mature. So it's a lot more realistic to try to run 2007 software in 2011 (CS3 in CS5-time) than it ever was to run 2003 software in 2007.

I honestly don't know what to think here, and I think most of the arguments here suffer from a certain lack of baseline data as to the technical difficulty of the saving changes and whether there were good business reasons or good management reasons or good technical reasons or some combination. That Adobe appears to be silent on the question does suggest the reasons may not be all that good in hindsight. But perhaps Adobe members on the forum are justifyably afraid of posting anything in this thread and having it grossly misinterpreted. Certainly lots of people who aren't Adobe people have had that happen here.

[BobLevine]

John Hawkinson wrote:

Part of the problem here is that Adobe's policies would be a lot more sensical if there were good strong features to encourage upgrades, and thus the installed base of older products was smaller and shrinking. Unfortunately CS5 just did not add a lot on top of CS4.

Sorry, but that statement is a matter of opinion and I couldn't possibly disagree more with yours.

Here's my list in case you're interested.: http://theindesignguy.com/cs5-thoughts.shtml

Bob

[Peter Spier]

@ John Hawkinson.

You only hear screaming about going to CS3 in this thread because we're in the CS5 cycle so we're talking with the folks who skipped CS4. The ones who bought CS4 and Skipped CS3 had the same complaint last cycle, and will have it in the CS6 cycle. They just got a little luckier with the double-dwonsave hack for .inx that allows some CS4 .inx files to be edited to open in CS2. There were complaints that they couldn't open them in CS1, and of course no version prior to CS4 can open .idml, so things will only get worse.

How far back do you think the save capability should go? Would you advocate for adding an additional save version each update, or work in rolling blocks?

Somebody mentioned Illustrator. I have to agree that it's apples & oranges, but Illy CS5 can save back (with plenty of feature loss) to versions CS4 through 8, and version 3. Why not versions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, & 7?

[bsnebold]

I can't recall for certain, but I believe that the versions you mentioned were essentially saving in version 3 format, so it doesn't make any difference. Though I might be wrong.

[MOverlow]

Does everyone here earn a living by debating all this crap or do you

actually use the software to earn a living? My goodness . . . Get to

work.

[macinbytes]

More likely the company they work for loses the upgrade cost that they saved by skipping a version paying their employees to whine.

No one wants to listen to Bob when he does his Sally Struthers impression and reminds us that for less than the price of a cup of coffee a day you can get an underprivileged graphic artist a licensed copy of Adobe InDesign.

Think of the children!

[peterpica]

I like to listen to Bob any chance I get because unlike most of the rhetoric on this forum, you stand the chance of actually learning valuable information at minimal marginal cost. Tremendous ROI compared to other forums.

[peterpica]

Uh oh, the boss peaked in!

[MOverlow]

LOL. Just trying to add a bit of levity.

Mark Overlow

Graphic Design Manager | Marketing

Arrow International, Inc.

Tel 216-961-3500 x447

Fax 216-634-7186

moverlow@arrowinternational.com

[Joel Cherney]

Does everyone here earn a living by debating all this crap or do you actually use the software to earn a living? My goodness . . . Get to work.

Fortunately, my nonprofit employer doesn't have the scratch to upgrade the hardware on my desktop on a really frequent basis, so while I am waiting for massive PDFs to export, I have time to hit refresh and

[MOverlow]

Hi Joel.

We just updated to CS4 from CS3 (only because we updated from CS3 so late, CS4 was a free upgrade). We worked on G4 mac Minis until two months ago when I finally convinced them to give us entry-iMacs. I feel your pain.

[Paul Phillips]

Ah well you Americans are all rich so can afford all these upgrades!

Try paying about 9.6 dollars a gallon for fuel and then the rest

to the British Government because little old England is broke!

Hell me thinks I am going to emigrate to the States. All that wide

open space singing "home, home on the range..."

Paul Phillips

Arclight East Ltd

[peterpica]

Guaranteed you won't miss a beat, if obama has anything to do with it.

This country's going the same route as your majesty's.... seems we don't know how to understand history books over here any more, at least not in washington, d.c.

[bsnebold]

Oh oh…now we've slid into politics. Yikes!