InDesign crashes when updating InCopy ICML files

Report · Jul 01, 2010

I created an assignment file with around 20 different stories. The next time I opened InDesign the writer had input text to most of the story files. One story file was a couple of pages of text, the rest were just a few lines of copy, nothing huge. Every time I tried to update the ICML files InDesign crashed. I didn't matter if I only tried updating one story or all of them, it always crashed. I was working on a PC when this happened. I moved over to my Mac to try and updated the ICML files and it crashed there too.

The actual InCopy ICML files on the server were fine. The writer never realized there was a problem. All of the copy was sitting there, so I was able to go back and re-import all the copy.

I did all the basic stuff to resolve the issue like restart, trash the prefs, convert to INX, and try on different computer. Nothing worked, crashed InDesign every time.

I'm currently using CS5, but this same issue came up last year on another project in CS4 as well.

Has anyone had this happen and/or know of a fix other than re-importing all the story files?

Report · Oct 24, 2012

Diane: I don't see why not knowing the cause prohibits you from reporting the bug to Adobe. Just give them the file.

You did not answer my question about making the crash reports available...

Yeah, I think Douglas Waterfall did a lot of work on improving the span/split logic around the CS6 timeframe.

Report · Oct 25, 2012

The last time I check the bug reporting, you have to give them the steps to creat the bug, which I don't know for this particular problem. There's no way to "give them the file" on the bug report form. The only time I've been able to give Adobe a problem file was when an observant Adobe employee found my thread about the text wrap bug in CS5 and gave me his email address to send the file to. He followed up on it until the techs closed the case without a solution. As far as I know that bug still exists as well, though the users on the forum decided it has to do with using a spanning columns option in a style on a page where there are no columns that causes it.

Thanks for the link to pastebin. I'll see if I can't get an error report into that for everyone to see. I cannot share the problem files pubicly as they are copyrighted and in production, but would be willing to email them to individuals who want to see if they can replicate the crash. You need both IC and ID to create the problem.

Report · Oct 25, 2012

Well, I would suggest opening a support case at http://adobe.com/go/supportportal is always more effective than the anonymous "throw a wish in a well" approach ("don't ask and I'll never tell"). They might try to charge you $30 for the privilege, but they'll credit it to you in the case of a confirmed bug, which this seems to be, no question.

You should be able to find the historical crash reports in Console.app, or ~/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports/.

You can email me the files and repro instructions (jhawk@mit.edu).

Report · Oct 25, 2012

John,

Your support portal link above didn't work for me. I recieved an Adobe website error "error processing your request." (edit: just tried the link on Chrome and it worked.)

Files are emailed to you. Thanks for your help.

Message was edited by: E Diane King

Report · Oct 25, 2012

I've posted my latest crash report at http://pastebin.com/ryD7yfC6

Report · Oct 25, 2012

Sorry for the delay, it has been a busy day.

Your support portal link above didn't work for me. I recieved an Adobe website error "error processing your request." (edit: just tried the link on Chrome and it worked.)

When it fails, that typically is the result of screwed up browser cookies. Removing adobe.com cookies and trying again tends to work.

I've posted my latest crash report at http://pastebin.com/ryD7yfC6

So, your crash report has:

Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

0 PublicLib.dylib 0x016c5372 ProtectiveShutdown::~ProtectiveShutdown() + 278

1 PublicLib.dylib 0x016c53f5 ProtectiveShutdown::~ProtectiveShutdown() + 17

2 com.adobe.InDesign.AppFramework 0x1197c20f 0x11960000 + 115215

This means InDesign detected corruption and executed a protective shutdown, and you're supposed to look at ~/Library/Caches/Adobe InDesign/Version 8.0/en_us/InDesign Recovery/ProtectiveShutdownLog for more details.

I opened your .indd file and was informed that assignments were out of date and updating produced a crash similar to yours. In my case, the protectiveshutdownlog offers:

Adobe InDesign Protective Shutdown Log
Thu Oct 25 22:40:00 2012 
Unhandled error condition
Session started up at 20:28:41 on Sunday, October 21, 2012
Version: 8.0.1 - Build: 406
Error Code 0x20705: "The content is locked and cannot be modified."
Called to process command 0x7313
Command Processor Stack (from top to bottom):
6. Command Sequence "Re-import File"
5. Command 0x7314 "Re-import File"
4. Command Sequence "Update"
3. Command Sequence ""
2. Command 0x8c59 "Update Link"
1. Command 0x8c9f "Update Link"

That's all well and good, but what does it tell us? Not quite so much, but more than we had before.

So obviously something's corrupt here.

I also tried exporting the story as plain text and placing it back into the flow. Crash.

Err, so did you try creating new INDD document and then placing the text? There's something toxic about your document, not sure what it is, and presumably it is re-infectig your assignment...

Report · Oct 26, 2012

Err, so did you try creating new INDD document and then placing the text? There's something toxic about your document, not sure what it is, and presumably it is re-infectig your assignment...

Look at the first two things I tried in my longer post from the other day.

The actual text of these documents (and there are a lot more than one and they are all crashing) come from Word documents. I place the Word documents into a separate document and format the text and the sideheads and then a flow that into my template. The text is fresh for each document, so in my mind that means the only place a corruption could exist since I've already tried to create a fresh template is in the style set. Those are a lot of styles to recreate from scratch. In CS5, the export to IDML "cleaned" whatever corruption there was in the file, but that doesn't seem to be working in CS6.

Report · Oct 26, 2012

One other thing to add. I'm sure you've noted that the text layout is fairly complex. I created an RTF template with styles for the writers of this project so that the text comes to me pre-formatted. If I strip all the formatting out, it's really difficult and time consuming to redo it. If the corruption is in the style sheet, I need to find some way to clean it up without losing the styling on hundreds of documents. I simply do not have the time to reformat from scratch all these files.

The solution that we are considering at this point is getting the main editor InDesign and abandoning the InCopy workflow. It's only updating the stories that is causing the crash.

Report · Nov 05, 2012

Well, I would suggest opening a support case at http://adobe.com/go/supportportal is always more effective than the anonymous "throw a wish in a well" approach ("don't ask and I'll never tell").
...
You can email me the files and repro instructions.

OK, I filed a case with Adobe a while back. This morning they report that this is now bug #3359371.

At what point that may generate a fix is an open question.

Report · Nov 05, 2012

John, thanks for getting this bug noticed by Adobe. I really appreciate your help. I'll be extremely happy to see a fix in the future, but for now my editor has switched to InDesign, so we're still in production. I hope no one else's workflow is brought to a grinding halt by the bug.

Report · Nov 12, 2012

Things just got worse in my office. Before it was just my complicated layouts that were having problems, now the designer who works exclusively on our quarterly magazine in a IC workflow with three editors is having the exact same problem with much simpler layouts. One of the editors edits any of the stories, and when the designer tries to update the link, ID crashes. This workflow worked in CS6 for the last issue, so something has bugged out recently, maybe the last update to the program?

Anyone else having problems or is just our office?

[EDIT] Just spoke at length with the other designer and I misspoke above. This is the first magazine issue that the whole team is in CS6. They are also going to have to work around the IC issue by doing all their edits in InDesign. We need a fix ASAP!

Message was edited by: E Diane King

Report · Nov 12, 2012

E. Diane King -

You are not alone. We have had this problem since CS3. In my experiences, any Indd. file that has anchored objects and interactivity causes crash and even corruption when exported and edited with IC.

I gave up on that workflow a long time ago and have created a mess of a new work flow that works more than it doesn't.

On occasions when my document revisions are extensive enough that I cannot collect edits/comments by PDF, I will cross my fingers and export the stories into IC. I then wait for all changes to be made, then try to incorporate them back into ID flow as you would expect it to work. When that fails, and it does consistently, I end up having to open the stories in IC, collect and copy the entire story flow and paste it over the ID flow. It's not perfect, is a pain in the #$%, and it causes me to have to relink all anchored objects and rebuild all interactivity.

I did post and ask bout these crashes on forums and with a paid Adobe tech case and was told it wasn't a problem with the software. Funny that.

I do hope that Adobe takes note and figures out how to make the checkout/check in workflow with IC and ID actually work. Good luck to us all.

Report · Nov 12, 2012

I'm not sure it's the anchored objects at fault. They are in use in my files, but not in my co-workers. I'm beginning to suspect that it may be a style sheet corruption. IC doesn't even need to be involved to cause the crash, just the stories. I can output to a IC story, place the story in a blank document, check it out, check it in without making any kind of edit. If I go back to the original doc and update the links, ID crashes.

In both my workflow and in my co-worker's workflow, we are using style sheets imported from pervious version ID files. I'm beginning to wonder if that isn't the issue. The only way to test it that I know of is to recreate the style sheets from scratch and I'm not even sure I can.

If anyone has any tricks for rebuilding style sheets, I'd sure like some advice.

Report · Nov 12, 2012

E Diane King wrote:
If anyone has any tricks for rebuilding style sheets, I'd sure like some advice.

Try exporting the story to InDesign Tagged Text and import it into a new doc to clean the styles.

Report · Nov 12, 2012

Peter Spier wrote:
Try exporting the story to InDesign Tagged Text and import it into a new doc to clean the styles.

Do you mean IDML? I don't see an option for Tagged Text.

The IDML export does not fix this problem in CS6 . . . that was one of the first things I tried because it worked in CS5.

UGH! Nevermind this post. I found the export option. Will give this a try.

Message was edited by: E Diane King

Report · Nov 12, 2012

No, I meant tagged text. That option is only available when you have an active insertion point or text selected.

If you have a selection, only that text is exported. For an inertion point, but no selction, the entire story is exported.

Report · Nov 12, 2012

OK, so here is a question. Let's say I get a nice clean style sheet by way of exporting one of my documents to tagged text. Will importing that style sheet/or syncing the book's style sheet to that clean sheet clean all of them, or would I have to export every single story for all the documents in this particular workflow that is crashing ID (hundreds of files) and reimporting them into blank documents the only way to get a clean style sheet? I ask because exporting the stories strips out my anchored objects, which I would have to replace in every single file, so I don't believe this is a doable workaround if it works.

I just tried importing the "cleaned" style sheet into one of the documents that is crashing, and it still crashes, so either I'm not really cleaning the style sheet by importing tagged text or the style sheet is not causing the crash.

Report · Nov 12, 2012

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. I suggested the tagged text because it often works for me for cleaning up text anomalies like TOCs that don't pick up styled paragraphs. I often place the tagged text back into the same file, sometimes directly replacing the current story, sometimes on the pasteboard and then copy/paste to replace the text.

Can you isolate a single file/story to play with? I'd try importing the tagged text into a new file, then putting that and your test into anew book and synching and see what happens.

Report · Nov 12, 2012

OK, I went and grabbed one of my co-workers files to work with. His style sheet is far cleaner and the layout far simpler than mine. Here is what I've done:

I put a copy of his file locally on my computer and exported the main story to IC.
I placed the IC doc in a blank file and checked it out and checked it back in. Went back to the original file and updated the linke. ID crashed.
I recovered the file. Exported the main story to tagged text and deleted the link to IC.
Placed the tagged text file into a blank document, and then saved that doc as test and exporeted the IC story as test.
Placed the test IC story in yet another blank document, and checked it out and in. Returned to test document and updated the IC link with no trouble.
Returned to the original document, placed the Test IC into the document and ID crashed.
Recovered everything. Tried placing the Test IC without anything selected and then clicked into the text frame and managed to get it to flow into the story frames.
I returned to my test document and edited the story.
I returned to my original file and updated the IC link and ID crashed.

Anybody see anything in all of that that could suggest a cause for the crash?

Report · Nov 12, 2012

As a follow up. I have fixed the file that my coworker gave me. After I posted my comment above, I went ahead and stripped the main article out again, deleted all the other IC links in the document, selected all unused in both style panels (character and paragraph) and deleted them, then I placed in the "clean" test IC doc into the story flow, and reexported all the other stories to IC. I placed the entire batch in another blank doc and checked them all out and back in, then returned to the original file and updated the entire set without a crash. Not exactly sure how I fixed his file, but it's working now.

Report · Nov 12, 2012

That sounds like either an unused style was the problem, or the tagged text export cleaned things up when you removed the "bad" story.

Not a pleasant thought to have to export hundreds of stories...

Report · Nov 13, 2012

Not only is it not a pleasant thought, but it doesn't work. I just tried the same basic steps with one of my files and didn't fix it. It still crashes ID, so whatever is wrong with my layout is not fixed by the tagged text work around.

Report · Nov 13, 2012

Bummer. Sorry.

Report · Nov 13, 2012

I know I'm guilty of not paying enough attention here, but I'm a little uncertain why you can't isolate the problem

by throwing out everything except the pieces you think are responsible (styles?) and then cutting those down by halves until you figure out which style it is.

(It's, of course, possible that there is more than one problem, and a bad story might "re-infect" a document with a bad style, or that it is a multiplicative effect).

If you're saying exporting a story as Tagged Text and importing that in a new clean document still causes the problem, that's certainly interesting. Since Tagged Text files are human-readable, you should be able to determine which formatting in the tagged text file leads to the problem, by repeatedly editting it to remove stuff until you find the trigger...

Report · Nov 14, 2012

My documents are rather too complicated for this kind of troubleshooting. The exported tagged text is "clean" and will not cause the crash in a blank document, but it is also stripped of all the anchored objects which are a major part of these particular documents. I have to copy and paste all those sideheads and replace inline icons when I bring the story back in. There simply is no way to clean the file completely of both styles and the sideheads and icons. I'm also making heavy use of object styles which cannot be cleaned by the tagged text method since those are not included in the "tags." Any one of those things or a combination of them could be causing the crash. The only way to troubleshoot it is to rebuild the document a piece at a time and I quite honestly don't think I can without a great deal of time (which I don't have). The template is extremely complicated.

This also brings me back to a "new" feature that was added to ID several versions back that makes this kind of troubleshooting really difficult. You cannot delete your style sheet without losing your formatting. ID insists that a style be assigned so when you delete the styles, it defaults all your formatting to the default paragraph style. I would dearly love to take my template and strip out all the styles and recreate them from formatted, non styled text, but I can't do that because I lose the formatting when I delete the styles. This feature has bugged me since it's inception.