InDesign text wraps around invisible images

Report · Aug 16, 2013

InDesign CS6. I was going crazy trying to figure out why my text kept jumping around. To my amazment, the text was trying to wrap around an image that was on a different layer that was turned off. The image was not being used and was invisible, but the text was acting like it was there. This is beyond absurd and even more ridiculous as it appears to be the default. Is there anyway to turn this "feature" off? Very perplexing company, this Adobe.

Thanks,

Mike

OS10.8

CS6

Report · Oct 26, 2013

Sorry Bob but I don't find your contributions particularly helpful. What I think Mike and I are saying is that the default setting is counter-intuitive. We are not saying that we don't like it just because it doesn't suit our way of working. While I am new to ID I am not new to desktop publishing and I have been using Adobe products since CS3. Sometimes being new to a product allows you to see that something is back-to-front whereas someone who has used it all day for ever will be totally blind to the logic, having grown accustomed to it.

I don't think I am 'jumping into a complicated application with actually learning how it works'. I am learning how it works and what I learn leads me to comment that this feature is counter-intuitive. If you tell me that turning off a layer merely makes it invisible then I suggest you call that 'making it invisible'. Turning a layer 'off' seems to suggest that it should cease to exert an influence on the document. If it continues to exert an influence other steps will be required to turn it 'off'.

Since Adobe has changed its charging structure, you will find these products being used by a lot of 'new' users. You were a new user once. While I am familiar with Dreamweaver, Fireworks and Acrobat, I now want to get to grips with Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. I can cope with the lack of consistency across products with respect to basic functions. Learning that PageDown doesn't move down a page is OK (I suppose, it's not really) but finding out 'off' in ID doesn't mean 'off' is just a waste of time and raises the bar for new users. Saying 'once you know about this you can set it how you like' presupposes that you know about it. New users don't start with documents from others that have been adapted in the way that is most intuitive, they start with the default settings. It's not a binary flip of a coin. You have to be thoughtful about the default.

Please at least consider the fact that the power users on this forum may be too heavily invested in the current way of doing things to want any changes at all.

"That's a manhole, it's been here for 14 years - next time you come down here you'll remember to walk around it like everyone else", is a funny approach.

Report · Oct 26, 2013

DerekWatson137 wrote:
Sorry Bob but I don't find your contributions particularly helpful.

Then we're even.

Turning a layer 'off' seems to suggest that it should cease to exert an influence on the document. If it continues to exert an influence other steps will be required to turn it 'off'.

Turning off a layer may seem to suggest that to you, but to me it means I don't want to see it but I don't want my layout completely messed up because of it's turned off.

There is no way you will convince me that deactiving visibility of an object or a layer should have any effect on any other item on any other layer. It's a visibility setting. Nothing else. If you turn off all the lights in a room, you'll still trip on that pair of sneakers left on the floor. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

Honestly, I don't even understand why this thread has gone on and on and on. We all have defaults we don't like. But that's the beauty of them...you can change them.

And in case you missed it. The whole reason for this thread, IIRC, is that someone got a file from someone else and couldn't figure out what was going on. Becasue the layer properties are specific to each layer in each document even if the default were different, the file that the was received would have acted the exact same way.

You want it changed? I suggest a post here: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

And you'll need to make a very strong case for any feature to be considered including how it will benefit MOST of the users.

Report · Dec 04, 2013

OK, don't know if anyone is still around to respond.... months later - but... I'm a newbie first of all - with a similar problem that's driving me crazy. I deleted the whole text frame where I once was having the gnarly problem of the text wrapping around an invisible frame within the text frame. Started up with a brand new text frame in that same part of the page and lo and behold, it was doing it again!! Couldn't find any layers that were the culprit. Very frustrating....

thx for any replies -

Brooke

Report · Dec 04, 2013

When you first worked on the document, was the invisible frame that the text was wrapping around any of the following:

On the same layer as the text it was pushing?
On a different layer as the text it was pushing?
Anchored within the same text frame that contained the text it was pushing? (And, if so, did you paste the same text into the new frame, which would have also pasted the anchored object?)

Also, have you tried unlocking and unhiding all objects on the spread via the Object menu? It could be that you aren't seeing it because it's hidden, and you can't touch it because it's locked.

Report · Dec 05, 2013

Might also be on the master page....

Report · Dec 05, 2013

great thought - but alas, I hadn't put anything on the master page but the page numbers!

Report · Dec 05, 2013

HI there - I'm trying to understand your reply - it might take awhile, but I'm working on it - in terms of layers, I saved the doc and played around with erasing each and every layer to see if that made a different and it didn't. At this point, I don't know is the answer to your 3 questions -

Did go to Object menu and nothing was locked or hidden

ok -THX

Report · Dec 05, 2013

turn off the wrap for that frame, if you dont need it at all.

or find the guilty frame, it HAS to be in some place

Report · Dec 05, 2013

definately turned off the wrap for that frame - no change - thx though

Report · Dec 05, 2013

My olnly options as I see it is to put another picture in that same place that keeps insisting that a picture is there - pretty dismall way to solve the problem though!! haha.

Report · Dec 05, 2013

OK - WOW - I'm getting a little closer - (by accident)! I had to go to edit, select all, cuz I wanted to flip the page 180 degrees and lo and behold, a little frame appeared in the mystery spot!! I'm now troubleshooting with that!

Report · Dec 05, 2013

It doesn't show as a frame when I just highlight the larger text frame that it is inside of , so I can't just go in and delete it

Report · Dec 05, 2013

Yea Yea - I clicked on no text wrap when everything in the document was highlighted (including that little invisible frame - which, btw, had a different sort of frame around it than the other picture spots- - anyway, the typing all reverted back to single lines at that point, as if no invisible frame were there anymore -

just thought to add this here in case anyone can benefit from it. It was very cool to see it behave the way it was supposed to!!

Report · Dec 05, 2013

It's behind it, so hold down the Cmd (Mac) or Ctrl (PC) key and click again in that spot to drill down, or redo the select all and then hold down the shift key and select the stuff you want to keep.

Report · Dec 05, 2013

brookeh7 wrote:
definately turned off the wrap for that frame - no change - thx though

Turned off the wrap for which frame? You need to turn it off for the frame you can't seem to find, not the text frame.

Have you tried doin a select all to see if an object shows up in that spot? How about an export to .idml to see if it goes away? see Remove minor corruption by exporting

Report · Dec 05, 2013

Hi Peter - just got your note after my eurieka moment - and yes, that was key - to select all to see if there was a frame there - that was helpful to see it -

thx for your help here!

Brooke

Report · Oct 25, 2013

Mike Fernbank wrote:
All I'm saying in this case is that, in my opinion, if you took the time and expense to have a statistically significant sample of new InDesign users work with the program a majority of them would infer that off layers negate text wrapping. That is all I'm saying.

Mike your point about the feature is not lost on me, but I'm not sure how it is you see yourself inside the minds of "a majority of new InDesign users," and make an assertion based on your opinion of what they would infer.

Thinking about it; my study group would be one of experienced page designers. I'd have them meticulously set challenging type throughout a long document full of text-wrapped graphics on a dedicated layer. Then I'd instruct them to hide that layer to help gain access to a layer below. In my opinion, if the text wraps went away too, the instantaneous mass-reflow of carefully set type would cause them to lose control of their internal plumbing.

Just illustrating the other side of the coin.

Report · Oct 25, 2013

Anytime you have a binary choice for a feature and need to set a default it's guaranteed to be wrong for half your users. That's just a fact of life, and it's also why you get to make the choice to change it.

Report · Oct 26, 2013

As the old saying goes, when you come to a fork in the road, take it.

Yes, we all have different ways of working, and I think it's good when software lets me work as I want without making you work that way too. When you first load ID, you have default settings. If you want, you can change them, but some settings are saved with the document. If I open your document, I have to deal with some of your settings, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I can change them to what I like. The problem is when you don't know why something is happening because of a setting, which is where this thread started.

If I didn't know what a duck was, I couldn't identify it by a quack. One I hear the quack and learn it's a duck, I hope that I will remember the next time I hear a quack. I imagine that the OP (and onlookers) have learned that text wrapping around (seemingly) nothing is the quack, and that objects with wrap on hidden layers is the duck. I'm pretty sure that the next file that the OP opens that has this issue, he will remember what to look for, and how he can make it work the way he wants instead of the way the person who created the file wants.

My 2¢

Report · Dec 04, 2015

Thank you Bob for taking the time to explain this!! I was stuck on this for awhile and had no idea that hidden layers affect the layout of visible layers. Coming from .ai background where this does not occur it was something I never thought of until you explained. Thanks for taking the time to post about this as it had me stuck for awhile wondering if I had a program glitch.

For everyone who is agruing about this topic.... Bob is exactly right, when a hidden layer has images in the same place as the visible layer you are working on the text wrap is applied to the visible layer making it seem like the text is moving around an invisible image. Caused me massive confusion for a few hours before I found Bobs post. To fix I deleted the objects on the hidden layers which were causing the issue and it is fixed. huge relief and reminder to clean up after myself as Im building.

indesign is NOT illustrator folks!!!

Report · Aug 23, 2016

When you double-click a layer, you can enable

"Suppress text wrap when layer is hidden"

Report · Feb 09, 2015

Just going thru these pages... I know it's been a couple years, but I know what Mike is saying.

Although I must say, all the suggestions are helpful, it did not work.

I hope Mike found a solution. I ran to this situation as well.

Just think of this: Make a NEW document. Is it empty? Yes. Then you copy a paragraph and insert this paragraph OUTSIDE the page and bring IN to the page. Voila! The invisible wrap around happens.

My original though was the person who worked on this InDesign may have put in his setting (to write his books/newsletter, whatever) and now Mike must figure what the hell the last person did.

Experienced user here and it still baffles me.

Frustrating, yes.

Report · Feb 09, 2015

Are the paragraphs forced to align with the baseline grid?

Then look at this screenshot where a text frame is moved from the pasteboard inside a page (for that purpose I duplicated the one on the pasteboard).

The blue guides are showing the document's baseline grid.

So how can this happen? Text is 12pt. Leading is set to Automatic (14.4pt). At least a few lines of text should be visible inside the page…

The answer is: We also have a baseline grid "inside" a text frame. And if this is defined with an incredible value, like 400pt, the screenshot above is showing no odd situation.

What's next: That text frame's properties could be commanded by a Object Style. And if an applied object style of the source document (the one you copied the text frame from) and an object style of the target document share the same name, new formatting and properties will come into play for the pasted object.

Of course, without seeing the real files, I cannot tell more about your case…

Here the screenshot of the text frame options to create that ridiculous situation above:

Sorry, all in German.

But I think, you can figure out what is what…

Uwe

Report · Dec 06, 2019

Like Mike I just spent a frustrating 45 minutes in a file figuring out that this text wrap "feature" had been wrapping around turned off layers. Even showing some kind of frame highlight around the hidden objects when you're trying to drag a text frame into place (and bumping into "invisible layers") would be helpful. I'm working in a complex file I didn't create so it's even more difficult. This was a bogus waste of my time.