Layers are lost when saving as PDF

Report · Apr 11, 2018

When saving a single page document from InDesign as a PDF all layer information is lost.

All the layers exist but are jumbled up in one layer and unnamed in a clip group. Why is this?

I then have to rebuild thus:

I then have to rebuild the layer sequence order in Illustrator for subsequent delivery to AfterEffects and Premiere. It is important to do this as the latest updates of Premiere Pro, After Effects and Media Encoder don't support PNG files

Report · Apr 11, 2018

What does this have to do with InDesign? That doesn't appear to be an InDesign layer panel. Looks like Illustrator.

Report · Apr 11, 2018

Hi Bob,

That is an strange response!

Many designers use InDesign to create assets for video and animation. The designers collate items in layers to organise their pages. The problem is InDesign does not save these Layers correctly in the Adobe protocol. This causes extra work reconstructing the layers in other Adobe software.

As less assets are made in Illustrator and more and more in InDesign for multiple purposes this has become a real issue.

Report · Apr 11, 2018

Are you looking at an email response or the web? I hit send accidentally and then edited the response.

Go back to the web and read it.

Report · Apr 11, 2018

sorry should have annotated my screen grabs correctly.

These are the InDesign Layers:

then I export like this:

then I open in Illustrator and get one Layer! and a pile of work to do...

I need to rebuild structure like the designer intended, like this:

It seems logical. Especially, as I say InDesign is used more and more to create designs.

Report · Apr 11, 2018

There are two things wrong, I think. First, you haven't told us what PDF export setting you're using. InDesign ONLY exports layers to Acrobat PDF if you export to PDF (Print) NOT Interactive, and ONLY if you select compatibility of Acrobat 6 or higher.

But this is intended only for conversion to using layers in Adobe Acrobat NOT in Illustrator.

Second, you're assuming that Illustrator is a PDF editor. IT IS NOT. Illustrator was never designed to open up PDF files for editing. In addition to the messed up layers, it quite likely will also mess up your fonts and other things.

Report · Apr 11, 2018

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Steve+Werner wrote
… Second, you're assuming that Illustrator is a PDF editor. IT IS NOT. Illustrator was never designed to open up PDF files for editing. In addition to the messed up layers, it quite likely will also mess up your fonts and other things.

Hi Steve,

that is changing and has changed over the last iteration of Illustrator versions.

The latest Illustrator opens PDFs with more than one page as separate artboards. And that's a new feature I would have not awaited unless the Illustrator developers feel the need to strengthen the "Illustrator-as-editor" model, I think…

I think, the layers are not messed up.

Not at all. It's only that the exported PDF does not contain any layers and the the Layer panel of screenshot two is just showing the hierarchy of elements in the order InDesign wrote to the exported PDF.

Regards,
Uwe

Report · Apr 11, 2018

I definitely know that InDesign layer export in PDF (which I don't believe happens if you choose PDF (Interactive) was never intended to be able to interpreted correctly in Adobe Illustrator. It was intended to convert to Acrobat PDF layers.

I follow the Illustrator prerelease forum. There has never been a claim that Illustrator has changed its handling of PDFs as a new feature.

Report · Apr 12, 2018

https://forums.adobe.com/people/sequence+W4 wrote
The problem is InDesign does not save these Layers correctly in the Adobe protocol.

There is no such "Adobe protocol" with respect to layers. You've formulated expectations based on your belief that it does exist and so you see possibilities and malfunctions where there are none.

Each Adobe application has its own layer features and conventions according to the nature of the content it's designed to edit. InDesign layers "translate" to PDF-export (Acrobat) layers by design, but that is as far as it goes. Illustrator layers are of a construct that is entirely unrelated to either InDesign or Acrobat layers because they serve a different purpose in the Illustrator editing environment. Add Photoshop, Premier, or Animate layers to the comparison, and the disparities (along with the reasons for them) only get more significant.

Report · Apr 12, 2018

Thanks all,

I now understand this is not possible and was not a software error or training issue.

I am also informed it is not possible to script or automate the translation of 'Layers' between InDesign and Illustrator/AfterEffects.

Report · Apr 12, 2018

https://forums.adobe.com/people/sequence+W4 wrote
… I am also informed it is not possible to script or automate the translation of 'Layers' between InDesign and Illustrator/AfterEffects.

Who said that?

Did you ask here:

InDesign Scripting

or there:

Illustrator Scripting

Regards,
Uwe

Report · Apr 12, 2018

In fact, I suggested that you check the Illustrator scripting forum in post #13.

Report · Apr 12, 2018

Yes Uwe,

I searched these forums and checked with www.axaio.com who write various scripts.

I found this from 2009...

regards - Pete

Report · Apr 11, 2018

BTW, from InDesign you must select the layers option in the export dialog.

Report · Apr 11, 2018

https://forums.adobe.com/people/sequence+W4 wrote
When saving a single page document from InDesign as a PDF all layer information is lost.

Hi,

as Bob already mentioned:

The layer information can only make it to the PDF if you allow it during PDF Export. There is a checkbox for it.

You wrote:

The problem is InDesign does not save these Layers correctly in the Adobe protocol.

What do you mean by "Adobe protocol"? What by "correctly"?

If you export PDF from InDesign you can allow "layers" in the PDF. Just open the PDF with Acrobat Pro DC and check the Layers View there. It seems that you open the PDF with Adobe Illustrator. That will transform any PDF content to Illustrator objects. If "layers" do not transfer as "layers" how you need them from an Illustrator perspective then I suggest you'd do a feature request with the Illustrator team.

Regards,
Uwe

Report · Apr 11, 2018

I used PDF (interactive) export as that has an option for Layers

The acrobat 8/9 doesn't seem to have a Layers option:

When you open this PDF in Illustrator you get 1 unnamed Layer with all the items in a Clip Group. All the items in the group are correct in terms of order, mode, font etc.

thanks - Pete

Report · Apr 11, 2018

Maybe someone has made a script?

Report · Apr 11, 2018

It might be worth asking in the Illustrator Scripting forum to see if anyone there has developed a script that converts Acrobat layers to Illustrator layers.

Illustrator Scripting

Report · Apr 11, 2018

I will check again. When I looked it all seemed very experimental.

I will also put in a feature request. Especially now there are major problems using PNG files with the latest Adobe Creative Suite

thanks for looking into this

Report · Apr 11, 2018

As an InDesign, Illustrator, and Premiere Pro certified instructor (and designer), I can say that InDesign is not a common program for creating graphics for video. Your designers need to get out of their comfort zone and use Illustrator or Photoshop.

Moreover, Illustrator is not that different from InDesign in basic usage, so it should not be hard for them to switch. For video-type graphics, Illustrator is a much better choice since it has many more design options.

As was mentioned, when you export a layered PDF from InDesign, the layers are only for Acrobat (or placing the PDF back in ID). PDF layers are not the same as ID, AI, or PS layers. PDF layers are lost when opening the PDF up in AI.

Multiple pages in a PDF is not the same as having layers. Two different issues.

David Creamer: Community Expert (ACI and ACE 1995-2023)

Report · Apr 12, 2018

Hi IDEAS-TRAINING,

I strongly disagree. In the workplace where assets are required for print, web and video, InDesign is the best layout software. It is particularly so because of the way Items in the linked in the different packages. I have teams from all over who work in Illustrator and photoshop but deliver to our video company as InDesign files.

I now understand that the Layer information is sadly discarded. I am surprised that it is not possible to keep this metadata.

regards . - Pete

Report · Apr 12, 2018

Layers are for exporting in a PDF (using valid protocols if you like) to be viewed in Acrobat. Illustrator is NOT A GENERAL PDF EDITOR no matter how much people want it to be so...

Report · Apr 11, 2018

Exporting from Print PDF requires that you choose Acrobat 6 or higher compatibility for layers.

And as already pointed out...Illustrator is not a PDF editor. If you need Illustrator layers than work in Illustrator.

Report · Apr 11, 2018

The designers refuse to work in Illustrator they say InDesign is much better!

We publish to Web, Print and Video that is is the power of InDesign.

Report · Apr 12, 2018

https://forums.adobe.com/people/sequence+W4 wrote
The designers refuse to work in Illustrator they say InDesign is much better!

When designers refuse to work in Illustrator, it is because they don't know how to use it.

InDesign, Photoshop, and Illustrator all have their strengths and weaknesses and should be used appropriately.

InDesign is not better than Illustrator any more that a pear is better than a dog. They are different!