Need to place endnotes at end of chapters and at end of book (Was "Footnotes and End notes issue”)

[Eshu153]

Hi Everyone,

Happy Christmas!!!

Here again with a new issue. I have tried all the possibilities available. I have a book layout request over 1000 footnotes and endnotes.

Client requests that he needs the footnotes to be at the end of each chapter. But, the only option to do that is converting footnotes to endnotes, and place at the end of story. This makes these footnotes added as part of existing end notes. Is it really possible handle this when there is both footnotes and endnotes existing in the book.

Thanks in advance.

Eswari

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

The client wants the footnotes to actually be treated as endnotes, but already has other endnotes. The client basically wants two separate sets of endnotes. Am I understanding that correctly?

[Eshu153]

Yes, two sets. One at the end of each chapter (Footnotes) and another already existing at the end of the book.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

Just to clarify terminology, footnote are at the "foot" of every page, so your client doesn't want footnotes at all, but two sets of endnotes.

How are you differentiating between the chapter vs. book endnotes?

Did you place the existing endnotes from Word? 

Are you using an ID Book file or just one long document?

[Eshu153]

Yes. He wants two sets of end notes. I am trying to do in a single document. Not id book file. 

The manuscript  is a word document with footnotes and endnotes.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS · Accepted solution]

1. You will have to cut-and-paste the existing endnotes to the end of the document (aka "book") in a separate text flow. This will break their link, however, and will not longer update or be hyperlinked (plus the numbers will look like this: <?>).
   1. If you DON'T need hyperlinks on the book endnotes, you job is relatively easy. If they are just sequentially numbered, you can simple edit the "book" endnote style's numbering settings and do some Find/Change cleanup.
   2. If you DO need the hyperlinks, as far as I can tell, you will have to use the cross references panel. (You might be able to find a script, but I could only find old ones to convert footnotes to book endnotes.)
2. When that is done, make sure each chapter is a single, separate text flow and convert footnotes to endnotes for each chapter.

As an aside, if the client wants option 1a, it's not that big of a problem. If they want option 1b, I would let them know that the cost (based on your time) will increase greatly.

[Eshu153]

Option 1a, is the one i tried to suggest the client. Hopefully, he chose that. If not, i need to go for other option which could turn into a nightmare as there are 1000+ end notes present. 😞

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

Most likely, the client will always go for the solution that requires the most time/work...

Hopefully, you did not give a flat-rate quote and/or the dual-endnotes requriements were not clearly identified in the original bid.

Flat-rate quotes should never include client changes to original specs, so if the interactivity of the links was not specified, you may have some wiggle room to add in more time. (Obviously, if you are delivering a PDF for printing, you don't need hyperlinks at all.)

[Eshu153]

Hi,

I checked with client and he is ok to leave the footnotes as is. But, he requested to keep the end notes for each section instead of at the end. Is this possible. If I need to use End of Story option, what is scope of the Story in Indesign. I am still learning. I tried this in a testing document. All end notes, still comes at the end. Is this possible?

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

A story is a text flow--it would be in a single text frame or threaded series of frames. 

Each of your chapters should be one long text flow. Start a new flow with each chapter. With your document, change your endnote options your endnotes should be sent to the end of each story/chapter. You may have to reimport the text with footnotes and endnotes to keep them live. 

Personally, although we never discussed the page count, I assume it's a fairly large book. I would use a separate file for each chapter using the Primary Text Frame option; then use a Book file to link the files together into a final project.

[Eshu153]

Thank you for your quick response. I understood the concept of Story in a separate document for each section. It's 500 page book. As i have already completed the formatting, only the end notes part is remaining. Is there any way i can do this in the current single document?

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

Good ol' cut-and-paste to desired position. 

If all the endnotes are already imported, I'm not sure if the links will break after pasting being that they are still in the same document. (You can tell the links are broken if the endnote number hyperlinks become <?>.)

If the don't break, life is good.

If they do break and you don't need the hyperlinks, you can fix it with method 1a.

If they do break and you do need the hyperlinks, you will either have to fix them using method 1b--or reimport and format. Which ever is most efficient.

[Linda5C94]

Hi -- I need to do what you're saying above, as I have the same problem (long book, endnotes needed at the end of each chapter). How do I make the master book document and the individual chapter documents and link them all together? 

[Eshu153]

It's relatively simple using a book project. My solution was, I have completed the formatting in a single book, so we can get the table of contents updated. Then, I broke the master document into multiple documents in a book project, So, each document/chapter will have endnotes at the end. Combined these. You should have a finished product with endnotes at the end of each document in the book.

Thanks and Regards

Eswari

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

Create a really good templete with master pages (paying extra attention to the margin guides), paragraph styles, character styles, table/cell styles, object styles, text variables, etc. Check your text flow document preferences; for example, with long flowing text, I like to use a Primary Text Frame and turn on auto-delete empty pages. Be very disiplined with your style naming methodology, especially text styles. 

The better your template, the less trouble you will have later on.

Create the Book file (File > New > Book).

Before you add any files, check the Book files menu and set your pagination preferences:

I like to turn off auto-renumbering but that's up to your perference.

Add your files and place in order.

Update numbering as needed.

If you make changes to the any styles, you can synchronize your styles. Tip: use "pessimistic" settings--that is, only synchronize settings you changed. If you only updated some paragraph styles, only synchronize the paragraph styles, not all the options.

When you make your TOC, be sure to select include book documents. 

If any of this is beyond your current skills, don't worry--we all were at that point at some time. You can either learn as you go, check out video tutorials (Lynda/LinkedIn, YouTube, etc.), take a live, custom online class. 

[Linda5C94]

This sounds wonderful... but my document is already complete, and NOW I'm breaking it into chapters. I know -- I'm not a professional, and this is totally backwards. In addition, placing the text with endnotes is making the application crash, every time I try. I'm worried I might need to start with a new doc and cut and paste it all in the new version. 

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

If the document is meeting your current needs--don't change anything. Just info to consider next time you start a project. 

[Linda5C94]

It was -- until I hit this inability to "place" the text with endnotes. I can cut and paste text, no problem. But now I actually need to put the real text in, and the first try resulted in endnotes in the wrong place. Now I can't delete them without the whole thing crashing. Once I'm able to even work in the file again, I do need to set it up so that the endnotes appear at the end of each chapter (which is set up as an individual story), rather than the end of the entire document. Right now, though, I feel very far away from that since it's just crashing every time I try to do anything with the endnotes. 

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

If you want to share the document with me, I'd be happy to take a look at it. If you want to do that, I'll send you a private message with my email.

[Linda5C94]

YES. Thank you!!!!!

[Kristina26392835bo8i]

Hi, I'm having the same issue – need endnotes after each chapter in the big document. But I can't remove <?> signs with Find/Change, somehow InDesign doesn't find it. 

[Eshu153]

Replacing <?> Is not worked for me. I did a single book and made multiple books for each chapter and combined into a book project which keeps end notes for each chapter at the end and when combined, they stay at the end of each chapter.

Hope this helps.