Paragraph on outside edge?

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I feel as if I'm missing something simple here, but — is there any way to have a paragraph, in a continuing flow, sit at the outside margin whether it falls on a left or right page? Without assigning different styles, using text boxes, or the like? A limited form of this can be done with the toward/away from spine justification setting, but it affects only justification and not overall paragraph position. I keep thinking of that, and float left/right in web code, but... it seems like there's a way to have a formatted paragraph hug the outer margin, automatically, and retain justification, spacing, rules/border, etc.

Am I missing something?

[jmlevy]

Hi @James Gifford—NitroPress 

Do you mean this?

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

No, more like this:

I'd like these text note/warnings to stick to the outside margin on any page they fall, without using two styles or manually positioning them or such, while remaining part of the text flow. The details (shading etc.) are not the point — I use this general style with shading, top/bottom rules. borders etc. but it always has to be hard-positioned on the page, which is not what I'd like.

Ideally, the formatted paragraph with all attributes should stick to the outside margin as it flows from left to right pages and back.

For some reason, I think this is achievable.... but I may simply be mixing up document techs and platforms in thinking ID can do it.

No, not really interested in scripts or such — I can solve the problem with several kinds of "intervention." But an automated positioning method would be great.

[Joel Cherney]

Yeah, I don't think InDesign can do this the way you're asking. Right indent is always going to be right indent, instead of the "inside indent" and "outside indent" you'd need to achieve this with straight text formatting. I can't recall where I've done this myself- I remember only the feeling of satisfaction when I finally got it set up correctly, making me suspect that it must be something in the vein of LaTeX or Arbortext. 

In InDesign, I've always done this with anchored objects.  I know you don't want to put your callout in a separate frame, but you could just use an empty frame as a custom anchored object, and check the "Relative to Spine" box in the Custom Anchored Object options. Then give it a a text wrap, and anchor it spinewards of your callout. It's a lot of clicking, though, for something we'd want to be a comparatively automatic process.

I've seen people use single-cell tables, as you can give the table an Away From Spine alignment without regard for its contents. That's not technically "using text boxes" but it's awfully close. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/indesign/using/aligning-text.html#:~:text=Select%20text.,or%20Align%20Awa...

(3) (Optional) Click Align Towards Spine or Align Away From Spine. 

It looks like someone wasn't thinking straight - when implementing "towards / away from spine" alignment option...

In this case - right / left should be treated as outside / inside...

@James Gifford—NitroPress 

You say you don't like scripting solution 😉 but script would be really simple - check which style is applied, which page it is - left or right - and then re-apply correct style.

But, there will be a problem - if paragraph will split between pages...

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Just to be clear, all this option does is set overall justification to the inside/outside/spine/edge side. It doesn't adjust any other aspect of the paragraph or style, so while you might have text hug one margin or the other, you can't mirror the spacing, rules, offsets, borders, etc. I guess it's useful for.... some layouts.

[Eugene Tyson]

Would it be too much to use a table - you can convert the text to a table and apply a table style (see no difference between this and applying a paragraph/character style) 

Tables can align towards/away from spine - but text inside the table can align to left/centre/right/justify etc. 

A script could easily size them all to the same width.

I see @Joel Cherney mentioned same solution - sorry only spotted after posting.

[FRIdNGE]

Simplistically, as Robert said, 1 click!

/*
    _FRIdNGE-0764_ParaOnSpine.jsx
    Script written by FRIdNGE, Michel Allio [30/10/24]
*/

/*
    GAME WITH 1 CLICK:
    Apply "Shading - left" Para Style on Left Page
    Apply "Shading - right" Para Style on Right Page
    Limitation: No possibility of Para running between 2 pages

    If the Layout moves, Play it again!  ;-)
*/

var myDoc = app.activeDocument;

// On Left Page:
app.findGrepPreferences = app.changeGrepPreferences = null;
app.findGrepPreferences.findWhat = ".+";
app.findGrepPreferences.appliedParagraphStyle = "Shading - left";
myFound = myDoc.findGrep();
var F = myFound.length,  f;

for ( f = 0; f < F; f++ ) if ( myFound[f].parentTextFrames[0].parentPage.side === PageSideOptions.RIGHT_HAND ) myFound[f].appliedParagraphStyle = "Shading - right";

// On Right Page:
app.findGrepPreferences = app.changeGrepPreferences = null;
app.findGrepPreferences.findWhat = ".+";
app.findGrepPreferences.appliedParagraphStyle = "Shading - right";
myFound = myDoc.findGrep();
var F = myFound.length,  f;

for ( f = 0; f < F; f++ ) if ( myFound[f].parentTextFrames[0].parentPage.side === PageSideOptions.LEFT_HAND ) myFound[f].appliedParagraphStyle = "Shading - left";

app.findGrepPreferences = app.changeGrepPreferences = null;

alert( "Done!…")

(^/)  The Jedi

[FRIdNGE]

Test-File joined.

(^/)

[FRIdNGE]

Just For Fun!

[version B, including paras between 2 pages]

First Double-Click: Towards Spine
New Double-Click: Away from Spine

New Double-Click: Towards Spine
New Double-Click: Away from Spine

and so on! …

(^/)

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Thanks, all, for the feedback and suggestions. My main question was "does ID do this?" and the answer is clearly no; I must be thinking of some melange of other doc platforms and tools.

My solution is simple, just use two (actually four, sigh) styles to position these notes at the outside edge, with manual style assignment. The book is mature and doesn't change much, so one pass will do all but a few touch-ups on each new addition, no need to get into any automated solution. But all those kept in mind for future projects. (It's the four styles that make the automated options a bit too complex; two basic styles and then two options within those choices, for a very complex formatting scheme. A wetware solution is most straightforward, here.)

Just editorailizing*, I could center the notes, but I long ago took the position of a wise mentor that "centering things is one step from making them invisible." Up til now, the right-offset has worked fine on recto pages, but looks increasingly awkward on versos. So I need to come up with 2 (x2) styles that make the most of an outside-margin hug. And then spend a tedious hour applying them... and move on.

This would be a nice feature, though, right? Kind of like LTR/RTL, a general switch for paragraphs that have two style forks based on which page they're on.

* Not a typo. Points for recognizing the influence. 🙂

[Willi Adelberger]

I would put the text in an ancored frame. Width and parafraph style defined via object style, height auto size. Position relative to spine is possible for anchored frames and can also be defined via oject style.

Only a page break is in the paragraph not possible.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

A good general solution, but one of my priorities is seamless EPUB export, and text boxes get messy and complicated for that. This text needs to stay in the main flow, not in a frame or table or other separate element. (But that's just my specific needs; a text box is probably the right solution for many layouts.)

[Peter Spier]

How about putting those notes in a frame as an inline anchored object? That frame can have an object style that aligns away from spine.

[Peter Spier]

I really should have read the whole thread before posting. (feeling sheepinsh).