Photoshop conversion from TIFF to PDF with ultralarge images

[Ignacio28085554rudj]

Hi,

I am generating a CMYK image with 2 additional alpha channels (spot colors). It is large, 34000x15000 pixels.

The image can be saved correctly in TIFF format, but when I try to save it as PDF, the accesible formats are reduced to six or seven options, not showing PDF.
If I modify its width to 30000, then all the format options appear again in the "Save as type:", PDF included.

Does anybody know of this limitation, what the exact limit is and a workaround to generate large PDF files with spot colors?

Thanks,

    Ignacio

[Steve Werner]

You should post this in the Photoshop forum for this kind of question (can't be done in InDesign):

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem/ct-p/ct-photoshop?page=1&sort=latest_replies&lang...

[Eugene Tyson]

Don't PDFs have a maximum width/height?

Pretty sure they do - so you could reduce your size by half and double your resolution 

then on output increase the scale tothe correct size.

Why won't tiff do? Why save as PDF at all?
Why not PSD or PSB? 

[Willi Adelberger]

I don't know any application which can reach the maximum limits of PDF sizes. 

[BobLevine]

Two questions.

1. What does this have to do with InDesign
2. What are you designing?

[Ignacio28085554rudj]

Bob,
1 - My question initially had nothing to do with InDesign, but.. it happens that InDesign might be a solution to the issue I posted. InDesign can generate a PDF with a dimension larger than 30000 pixels, while PS can´t.
2 - I´m trying to put a file though a RIP driving a large format printer, at high resolution.

[BobLevine]

InDesign PDF export is limited to 200 inches.

[rob day]

But the pixel dimension of a placed image can be anything--an InDesign PDF export gets around a Photoshop PDF's 30000 pixel limit.

[rob day]

2 - I´m trying to put a file though a RIP driving a large format printer, at high resolution.

My experience with composite printer drivers and RIPs is that, with rare exceptions, the driver handles the conversion into the printer's space via a media RGB output ICC profile. So if I send CMYK or CMYK + Spot color, the document values will not be output unchanged--the driver will perform another color managed conversion at output.

I assume the printer has an Orange and Violet ink channel that extends the print gamut and that is the point of the spot cannels, but is the driver really printing the orange and violet document values with orange and violet inks? Or can you get at the extended gamut by sending a large gamut, profiled RGB (ProPhoto RGB?) image, and letting the driver make the conversion to CMYKOV at output?

[Ignacio28085554rudj]

Drivers and RIPs are two different beasts.
Drivers are usually developed by the printer manufacturer and tend to work in RGB colorspace and in contone. Haltoned data allows CMYK (some HP RTL-based drivers, for instance), but the amount of data to transfer is huge, Hence, developers embrace the contone path, offered by the manufacturer.
There used to be Postscript drivers, but they passed away and were substituted by PDF.
On the other hand, RIPs provide a non-colormanaged worklow (e.g. ColorWise Off, in Fiery) so that the printer can be calibrated/linearized for specific media. This is the pipeline I am trying to use for my tests.

[rob day]

Hi @Ignacio28085554rudj , I was able to get around Photoshop’s 30,000 pixel limit by saving an image as a .PSB, Placing it in InDesign (you might need to drag and drop the .PSB rather than using File>Place), and exporting to PDF with no compression. An Export to PDF/X-4 with AcrobatPro‘s Object Inspector showing my image width at 38,834px:

[JR Boulay]

Eugene Tyson Don't PDFs have a maximum width/height?

You should read this : https://alexwlchan.net/2024/big-pdf/

[Eugene Tyson]

Yeh not reading all that - I know limitations are set somwhere by some apps and some particulars. 

Can be a stumbling block. 

[Ignacio28085554rudj]

Thanks, but that post is not addressing the issue I have mentioned.

[Willi Adelberger]

To convert a TIFF into a PDF you can open the TIFF in Acrobat Pro. In many cases it is even better, as Photoshop does not support every flair, but Acrobat does, like multipage TIFF files. 
why do you convert your image files into CMYK. You do not have any advantage but the file has a 33% bigger file. Even with spot color channel files you can stay in RGB. 

[rob day]

To convert a TIFF into a PDF you can open the TIFF in Acrobat Pro

Hi @Willi Adelberger , have you tried that with a 30,000+ pixel TIFF? When I try, AcrobatPro crashes.

[Willi Adelberger]

How much RAM does your computer have. 

[rob day]

72GB

[Willi Adelberger]

With 256 it works. 

[Ignacio28085554rudj]

32GB

[Ignacio28085554rudj]

I do need CMYK, because I´m controlling the ink amounts, which is precisely the goal of that PDF.
Multipage TIFF files is not something I care about either, nor other flairs. I want to resolve a specific need, which is why I posted. Focus!

[leo.r]

I do need CMYK, because I´m controlling the ink amounts, which is precisely the goal of that PDF.

By @Ignacio28085554rudj

@Eugene Tyson already asked and, unless I'm missing something, I still don't see an explanation: why exactly do you need to keep your image as PDF instead of, say, PSD? what options PDF software provides to you for dealing with this image that Photoshop doesn't?

[Ignacio28085554rudj]

I want/need PDF because it´s a configuration file that I want to process following exactly the same path the other jobs follow, that is, handled and processed by the RIP, with the same settings applied.
If I feed a TIF, color management, screening, paper dimensions,... might be different.

[Ignacio28085554rudj]

Opening it in Acrobat Pro does not work: it ignores the alpha channels. Only CMYK colors are included in the generated PDF. Thanks, anyway

[Ignacio28085554rudj]

Just a clarification: alpha channels in TIFF images (it´s a must for me!) are supported via a special tag Photoshop created long ago. It´s not a standard tag (is not in the TIFF spec) and Adobe documented it only partially, in the old C++ SDK. Therefore, Acrobat will NOT recognize it. Hence, I need to generate PDF from within Photoshop... or generate the PDF manually. I will do that... if I know in advance that the 30000 pixels width is not a limitation in the PDF, once I have generated it.
Have looked at the internal objects of a similar (smaller) PDF that Photoshop was able to convert, and have a clear idea of  which way to go, but don´t want to invest that time unless I know it will work, i.e., Acrobat, or the RIP, will handle it.
Other option is,  if @Willi Adelberger  is right, give Photoshop a try with 256GB of memory